Microsoft should be terrified of SteamOS
Microsoft should be terrified of SteamOS
This is the final hurdle keeping me on windows, a seamless gaming experience. If SteamOS can hammer everything out, there's zero reason to stay.
The only problem I have gaming on Linux these days is anti-cheat on a couple titles. Everything else is seamless already. The steam client works just as it does on Windows.
Imagine gaming with no windos OS…. The future is better!
No need to imagine!
I'm waiting for a MS vs Steam lawsuit where MS tries to sue over the usage of the Windows api
They would have a hell of a time trying to say they want to control API usage after letting everyone and their mother use it free and unrestricted for decades. But I wouldn't put it past them to try.
I’m legitimately curious how many half-baked ad-filled second-to-the-punch products will be too many for Microsoft before they finally capitulate.
SteamOS will let you pay games from GOG, right?
Because they're DRM free, they're super easy to install too! Another install method is Heroic
Yes you just have to sideload the client. I believe Lutris makes it easy but I don't use GOG myself.
Heroic makes it even easier
I hope to see this before the EoL date set for Windows 10 and a bunch of people throw out perfectly good machines to but something that works with Windows 11.
Personally, I won't use Windows 11 on my home machines. But my concern is that I install a distro this year and want to switch to SteamOS later, but would have to start over with customizations, etc. in the new distro. I wish SteamOS was available now for gaming rigs!
I think it should be available just in time for Windows 10 sunset later this summer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdR-bxvQKN8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebmp2FIrTlE
my concern is that I install a distro this year and want to switch to SteamOS later, but would have to start over with customizations, etc. in the new distro.
I wouldn't sweat that at all.
I switched distros last week, didn't like the new one as much as I thought I would, and switched again a few days later. It's not that big of a deal. Install some apps, reload your files from a USB stick. It's not a major commitment.
A good way to keep this easy for yourself is to keep the files you actually care about like pictures, game saves, documents, etc all on a separate partition. It makes it very easy to make a backup for distro hopping.
You can nuke your OS as many times as you like, and everything will be exactly in the same place.
Steam is terrified of the Microsoft store. It's part of why they're moving to linux
thats exactly why Valve start Fighting Against Windows, UWP And Microsoft store.
Sure, but Valve is terrified of the Microsoft store for a subtly, but importantly, different reason than why Microsoft should be terrified of Steam OS.
Microsoft should be terrified that Steam OS will destroy their monopoly by making it so users no longer have to use their product.
Valve is terrified that Microsoft will destroy their monopoly by making it so users no longer can use their product.
Microsoft could also be terrified of how shitty Windows 11 is. I have to think back to Millennium Edition to compare to something this disastrous, but Satya doesn't care about Windows, Surface, or XBox. Microsoft's future is M365, Azure, and D365. Big fat high margin Enterprise Agreements since everyone is locked into their proprietary shitty office formats. And they get enterprise problems with audit, identify, access control like few other businesses.
What I don't know understand is why companies refuse to sell off businesses that they know will die off from their neglect. A shame, except for Windows.
There is nothing to be terrified of for MS, windows can implement mandatory rectal scans to log in and linux wouldn't break 20% market share.
Linux is already over 15% in India
windows can implement mandatory rectal scans to log in
I for one would swap back to Windows from Liinux if this was implemented!
Windows 98 was supported until almost a year after Windows XP's release, so nobody really had to use Millennium Edition. Windows 10's support is ending in October and no new version has been announced.
Microsoft always follows the pattern of good OS, bad OS, good OS, bad OS. We just have to wait for Windows 12 for a good one.
It's true:
3.0 - aka the Windows Protection Fault release 3.1/3.11/WFWG, now with far fewer WPFs 95 - I lost nearly a year of life waiting for it to reboot, again. 98! Second Edition TBF ME - Lets remove stuff and cause cause problems XP - SP2 - I can login before my PC is taken over by RPC calls from the Internet! Vista - UAC up the Longhorn ass 7 - took long enough 8 - 1.5 half complet OSes 10 - erased 1 OS, completed the other 11 - I am still waiting for file Explorer to open. Where is fileman.exe? It's so laggy, why does the context menu draw out one row at a time.
A fresh install of ME was typically fine, the live update usually fucked things up big time.
I'd compare the Windows 11 disaster to Windows 8; only that they released 8.1 in relatively short succession, with most issues actively fixed.
I just installed Linux and holy shit it is so much easier and more straight forward than a windows install. Really wish I would have done it sooner.
I had issues with drivers, like I would have to find them somewhere on the internet, trust a random stranger to download and install them. And even then some things required me to launch drivers manually every single time I wanted to use my hardware.
I had issues with games, constant crashes or some games flat out not working. Some even crashing the entire system occationally.
I had issues where my pc would randomly turn on. Going to sleep was funky and would break the system requiring restart. I had to find drivers for my audio systems to get them running.
I had to run around confusing settings and tweak them through different control panels made by random people that largely overlapped to fix basic issues.
Thankfully those issues were solved the moment I installed linux.
Guessing your machine uses the one-two punch of Nvidia + Broadcom / Realtek?
Haha you had me, ngl
That said I've never had issues with drivers on Windows, like ever.
The last time I tried Linux was probably a good 5 years ago (Mint) and it was good, but I kept having to do what you described, adding repos (had no idea what they were or how they worked) and running command line updates, and it all looked like random code executing on my system. I could definitely see why the average person would be intimidated.
Eventually I gave up when I couldn't get the most simple thing I did in windows working on Linux, updating my keepass automatically via Gmail.
I'll have to give Mint another shot, I'm sure it's come along even more.
It's funny because while some of it has to do with work to make Linux desktops better, a non-trivial amount of it is how worse Microsoft has made it to deal with Windows.
Creating an offline account to install windows is worse than installing 99% of the Linux distros out there.
Also, some (most) annoyances with installing Linux, still, is primarily due to Microsoft managing to fuck things up in subtle ways.
Which distro ? I've been rocking Bazzite for a year, and holy mother of christ, it requires less maintenance than my smartphone.
I've been using Bazzite too. It's kind of so stable it's boring.
Yeah. Windows install and Linux install quietly switched which was the difficult shitty experience sometime when I wasn't watching.
Year of linux desktop, amirite?
Jesus, news outlets love hyperbole, don't they. We are not even at 5% market share.
He specifically didn't say that. Instead of criticizing that they aren't nuanced enough you should read the nuance they actually wrote:
Let me be clear: The odds of a massive, immediate shift away from Windows PCs aren’t great. This isn’t a “year of the Linux desktop” rallying cry. But if there is a Linux desktop that exists today, it’s the Steam Deck. And that makes SteamOS a bellwether for greater proliferation of non-Windows devices (if not necessarily “Linux” specifically) in a huge range of form factors.
I don't know how long it'll take desktop Linux to reach 10% market share. Could be a couple of years, could be decades, could be never. But once it reaches 10%, I give it 5 years before it's over 80%.
As a long time Linux enjoyer, this is honestly the easiest way to get it into the mainstream. People have already seen the success of the steam deck which only reinforces that Linux can be used for gaming better than ever before. As long as people stop using Windows I'm here for it.
Eh, I don't really care if they stop using Windows, I care that they start using Linux. Dual boot if you need, but more market share for Linux increases the likelihood that devs will support Linux directly.
more market share for Linux increases the likelihood that devs will support Linux directly.
I'm starting to wonder if that's true. I thought so do but now I'm wondering, especially with compatibility layers like Proton, and even Wine before that, and plenty of tools like Electron, Unity, etc helping to be cross-platform, if the lack of support is rather due to bad habits instilled by years of Microsoft partnership with manufacturers (and thus driver support) implying that drivers must be kept secret and thus Linux support is "bad for business" and that then cascades down to developers then users.
If linux breaks 5 or 10% marketshare on hardware surveys, developers will start thinking about the 300-600 dollars they lose every 100 sales simply from disabling anti-cheat on linux.
(2025 is “The year of the Windows 11 PC refresh,” allegedly)
Wait. Since when has Microsoft's Windows team been drinking from the same copium jars as us Linux users have for years?
That's hilarious.
Oh it will be the year of the Windows 11 refresh, there's no question of that. Untold millions of business PCs will be making the change as Windows 10 goes EoL.
It's a very different story in the home market. Frankly the only thing holding Windows Gaming in place is decades of increasing personal PC ownership but that ownership / use rate is now declining as normal people transition to using smartphones and tablets.
In just a few short years, ten at most, gaming on Windows will be about as relevant as gaming on Mac. It may still be called "PC Gaming", you can already see media trying to redefine gaming on SteamDeck and other handhelds as "PC Gaming", but those games won't be built around the Windows OS.
When most/all multiplayer games start working on Linux that's when Linux can really start taking off.
They do. We're already there.
The only titles that don't work are the ones with kernel level anti-cheat, and that needs to die anyway.
All games that enforce kernel level anti-cheat won't work
As someone who almost exclusively plays multiplayer games - we are def not there. I agree with you that kernel-level anti-cheat needs to go and games should focus more on AI-based (behavior and pattern analysis) anti-cheats instead. But, it's simply not fair to to say that "we're already there" when almost 50% of the largest (most played) games out there don't work on Linux.
We are not there. Is it Linux's fault? No. But we are absolutely not there, yet.
It's the year of the Linux Desktop!!
As a Mac user I too want SteamOS to succeed, because it will indirectly result in more games that are compatible with macOS via game porting tools and wine.
Honestly windows is just annoying to deal with. I don’t like the ads, and I don’t like my start menu bar being reorganized. I run it in a VM and managing my install keys is a huge pain with their login system.
Linux is awesome, it’s neat watching its developer friendliness result in snowballing market share.
compatible with macOS via game porting tools and wine
How is moltenVK going by the way, assuming you follow that? I originally thought macOS gaming was dead when they ditched OpenGL and declined to support Vulkan, but maybe with layers of shims peoples still make it work.
No idea, I don’t really follow that
If a SteamOS desktop system gets established, it would be time to add productive software to the ecosystem. Like a web browser, email, libreoffice, maybe some other tools. There are good free versions of all kinds of productivity software, and having them nicely packaged for a system like that would add a lot of value to the SteamOS driven family PC.
FYI, if you switch to Desktop mode on SteamOS, all those applications you listed are available via the included app store that taps into Flathub. SteamOS also ships with Firefox out of the box. I have them all installed on my SteamDeck already.
Well, yes and no. The main point of compatibility that games should be working towards if they want to run well on macOS is to have ARM versions that work better with Apple's M-series chips. SteamOS/The Steam Deck are still built for x86 processors which Apple has since stopped supporting.
It's not impossible to bundle the games in an emulation layer, but it is a bit more involved than something like Proton/WINE, which are just compatibility layers and not emulators, and it comes at the cost of performance.
A lot of that work is going directly into
https://developer.apple.com/games/game-porting-toolkit/
So there is certainly overlap, though as you said, architecture emulation is a different beast
managing my install keys is a huge pain with their login system.
It's often easier to activate it with other means even when you have a real key.
Linux is awesome, it’s neat watching its developer friendliness result in snowballing market share.
Why not ditch MacOS? Mac's are just as bad as Windows, just in different ways.
Apple has been progressively neutering root on a path to make a laptop as much of a walled garden as iOS. Not to mention the entirely soldered RAM and SSD and then charges ridiculous premiums to get more
Why not ditch MacOS? Mac’s are just as bad as Windows, just in different ways.
Eh, I disagree. Yes, macOS isn't great, but calling it "just as bad" is a bit disingenuous. If I had to pick between Windows and macOS, and installing Linux wasn't an option for whatever reason, I'd take macOS in a heartbeat because it doesn't spy on users anywhere as much as Windows, most Linux stuff works seamlessly (macports or brew, take your pick), the built-in software is actually pretty decent.
That said, I very much dislike macOS as well (I use it for work), and there's no substitute for me for Linux.
For me it strikes the right balance of usability and security.
I’ve been a Mac user for almost 20 years now. I’ve had periods using Linux on desktop, but not for some time now. I’m very much a macOS power user.
The things I use my computer for: desktop publishing via Affinity, photo editing, programming, some app dev, playing mostly older games, and I do a lot of data analysis. There are a few macOS apps I could not live without: Automator, Preview, and I use Apple Numbers a surprising amount (I like that it’s table based and not sheet based).
I also find the right usability and hardware quality makes a huge difference for me. What stopped me before was Linux high DPI support and trackpad quality, but that was years ago.
An example of why I like Mac: I have a script at work that spits out Google cloud buckets in gs: format and I can’t change the script. I set up a simple Automator workflow so now I can right click the url and format it as a link to the bucket viewer in my browser instantly.
I have a ton of these little workflow improvements that I’m sure you could do with Linux but already work well for me.
Mac's are just as bad as Windows, just in different ways.
They're absolutely not.
Not to mention the entirely soldered RAM and SSD
Hate to tell you this but this is the direction of the entire industry. Look at the new Ryzen "AI Max" chips. Integrating CPU/GPU/RAM on the same chip just leads to crazy increases in performance and efficiency. As usual Apple paves the path to erosion of consumer choice.
Apple has been progressively neutering root on a path to make a laptop as much of a walled garden as iOS.
I agree it's a very bad thing in general but it can also be disabled with some simple terminal commands. MS goes out of their way to constantly break any solutions consumers might find to make their systems suck less.
That would be nice, having good competition solves a lot of problems. Plus if steamOS gains enough traction more large game studios may start to specifically support it.
if steamOS gains enough traction more large game studios may start to specifically support it.
Do they have to though? Isn't "just" running on Linux (mostly done by avoiding weird tricks, say a Windows build from Unity often works) enough?
Anticheat doesnt usually work, and often it takes tweaking to get windows games working perfectly. It'd be nice if everything just worked.
I'm at an uncomfortable crossroads of knowing enough to hate Microsoft, but not knowing enough to trust myself with switching to Linux. I'm like just barely tech-literate enough to wander into places like Lemmy, but beneath some surface level shit I'm probably one of the dumbest motherfuckers here when it comes to not setting my devices on fire.
So... a 'Linux for dummies' sounds exactly like what I need!
Bazzite is exactly that. You can't break it unless you read and study how to break it, intentionally. Flash it to a USB drive, boot to the installer, done. You'll never worry about drivers, updates, ads, spyware, telemetry, that will be a thing of the past.
Well, there are a lot of newb-friendly distros these days. Some options:
- Linux Mint (any spin) - one of the easiest to get help with online, with minimal compromises
- Fedora - also pretty easy to get help w/ online
- Bazzite - great if you just want to play games; it's about as close to SteamOS as you get w/o an official release
Any of those should be pretty friendly to users new to Linux, and they go roughly in order from fitness as a regular desktop (top down) to fitness for gaming (bottom up), but any of them can handle gaming and desktop stuff pretty equivalently.
beneath some surface level shit I’m probably one of the dumbest motherfuckers here when it comes to not setting my devices on fire.
Well... if you actually want to learn, as we ALL did, get yourself a device you can literally set on fire. By that I mean a RPi 3 (probably going for 10 EUR nowadays) or a 2nd hand laptop. If you can't find that easily, try a virtual machine, if you don't want to bother give a whirl (with a ad blocker...) to https://distrosea.com and come back, risk free.
It's honestly empowering to learn and it has been relevant for decades (basically since the UNIX days) and STILL is relevant today in the time of the "cloud" where all such commands are still used.
I was the same as you about 6 months ago. I installed Bazzite and never looked back. Sure, there might be some quirks but overall my pc works much better. I can even finally use Steam Link reliably!
I feared making the plunge as well but it was so seamless tbh. Got Linux Mint and it just feels like a newer version of old Windows. Not sure how it's with other distros, but I find it to be precicely Linux for dummies.
I'd say the difficulty to getting used to new environment was on a similar level to getting from Windows XP to Windows 7. If you can dual boot I recommend just trying it - the water is fine.
This is accurate really. Linux Mint is excellent for people who want to get away from Windows and learn Linux because it looks similar. Bazzite, however, especially the KDE version, honestly looks better than Windows at this point, imo.
In addition to making gaming much much easier, it also has an atomic code core, meaning that all the stuff you will eventually break on Linux Mint by playing around with different programs... and eventually lead to a new Linux user re-installing... is almost non-existent. Programs are installed in their own space with their own dependencies, meaning that they don't encroach on any other programs using similar drivers, configurations, etc. When those programs are uninstalled, they're just gone.
So if you can finally game on a Linux distro, not worry so much about borking a linux distro, and it looks and feels both modern and intuitive at the same time...
Why not put in on a spare laptop or something and get some hours in? Microsoft needs some serious pruning and unfortunately they seem immune to criticism that doesn't come in the way of lost revenue.
Some things that may help you get started:
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All of the risk in changing your computer operating system comes from the potential loss of data. Everything else is replaceable/recoverable, including your original Windows install if needed. You can avoid this risk by backing up your personal data to an external drive, which frankly everyone should be doing anyway because hard drives are consumables.
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You can try Linux with no risk by running it as a live OS. This loads the operating system files into RAM from an external device (typically a USB drive) and makes no changes to the system hard drive. This lets you test your computer's functionality in Linux without making permanent changes (does my graphics card work? wifi? audio? etc). The mainstream Linux installers do this already for the installation process, but you can just load one up to try things out without running the installation process.
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You don't have to completely switch off of Windows. It's fairly easy to install Linux as a dual-boot on an existing Windows system. As long as you have some free space on your hard drive to dedicate to Linux, you can just keep your Windows install and have Linux too. You can even access your files in Windows from the Linux install. All of the mainstream Linux installers have the option for setting up dual-boot during the installation.
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I think one of the biggest hurdles for switching over is knowing what software to use in Linux (how do I edit a document? watch a movie? read a pdf? etc). There are options for basically anything you might want to do, but if you don't know what you're looking for you might feel a bit lost. I recommend alternativeto.net for this. You can search for software like Microsoft Office and filter for Linux to get a list of compatible software options that do the same job.
I’m probably one of the dumbest motherfuckers here when it comes to not setting my devices on fire.
I know exactly how you feel. I have wrecked so many OS installs I've lost track. I have friends who tell me I have tech problems like no one else. I seem to stumble into edge cases on a higher-than-average basis.
My point is, when I say that everything is recoverable, that's from experience. I've done it enough times to know there's very little chance of actually making a computer unusable, though it's relatively easy to lose your data if you're not paying attention to what you doing - so backups. Always backups.
If you try this a couple times you'll start to see your computer as something that you have control over, something that you can completely wipe and bring back or rebuild into a different system as you please. Feel free to reach out if you've got questions.
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They probably give it the side eye every time it comes up
Gaming is only a fraction of what we need to get people to move away from Windows.
Shitty japanese government and some private apps only work on windows (some to a limited degree on smartphones and Mac). Sure, I could (at least theoretically) run a windows vm for that as someone helpfully mentioned before, but that kinda defeats the purpose (and isn't really great for less technical folks).
I imagine some other gov/biz apps also have the same issue.
Yes, it's only a fraction, but most of the rest is going to SaaS through web browsers or mobile apps, because companies get to control and force subscriptions that way, but has a side effect of targeting a browser as a platform rather than an OS. Gaming in browser is more in the pain point of browsers, so it's a use case that demands OS.
Besides office software and better
NVIDIA driverhardware support in general, what else do you think is necessary?I can't speak for everyone, but many hardware peripherals software for configuration and control don't work.
For gamers that could be companion software for RGB and mwcro customization on keyboards, controllers and other peripherals too.
For myself, it would be music production software (VSTs and otherwise.) I know about different compatability layer softwares out there, but it's a band-aid.
I made the switch to Arch and these 2 things have been my struggle.
For my music hardware I have run a windoes VM with virt-manager/qemu with USB passthrough. That sort of works, but it's an extra thing to fuss with.
I even went down the rabbithole of trying to use usbip to get wine to recognize my hardware, with no success of wine seeing the bound port.
Its not flawless but I'm getting there.
I will not go back to windows. Even if it means changing my habits and use cases.
The ability to stream media from legit paid sources. (Netflix, Comcast, max, disneyplus, prime, I don't know where the list is currently, but anything that bitches about user agent.)
TPM.
The ability to play multiplayer games that rely on anti-cheat ( seriously, make Linux a hit with the fortnite crowd and the upcoming generation will think of windows as boomerware )
The ability to use an HDMI cable at full speed. (It's the leading A/V cable standard and the only one some people understand. )
Then there's the stuff I'm unsure of the current status of but that I know was a problem once upon a time: Online banking, online doctor stuff, encrypted emails from mainstream providers, you know, anything that could qualify as "every day stuff" that works out of the box on windows and yet sometimes requires complicated (for grandma) setup on Linux.
But it's apparently the easiest, since Valve is already working on it. You just need to shift a significant portion of technical users to Linux and the other use-cases will follow.
I think Steam Machines would be successful now.
I can't imaging gaming on not a handheld.
I believe it could be killer casual home PC if they had clearly stated specs with expected power draw and output. Not everything needs to run at 240 Hz in 4k res... as steamdeck showed. It has too low res though for desktop PC, so new steam machine should be a bit beefier than just rebranded deck.
I could be horribly wrong, but with a disgruntled console market and SteamOS's success on the Steam Deck, a plug and play device along with a controller could be very successful at capturing departing console users and it would really give a kick start to linux gaming.
I know there's lots of people who want to try PC gaming, but are not sure how to or are scared to do so, a Steam Machine would be the perfect device for them, they could just plug it into their TV and be gaming in minutes, just like the simplicity of the Deck.
I hope the installer will be so easy that even non-gamers with little to no technical knowledge will be able to download it, double-click, and follow the wizard then end up with SteamOS installed. That would be the dream.
Bazzite is exactly that. Dead easy.
Don't you need to put it on a USB-stick first? That's the biggest hurdle, I think. Then getting into the BIOS and choosing which device to boot from. Those 2 steps are the ones that kick most normal people out.
Microsoft has already lost the console wars, and now it starts to look like they might even lose the PC wars. Is there any future for Microsoft gaming? It feels like the only thing they got going for them is Call of Duty.
Is there any future for Microsoft gaming?
Yes, in the "Netflix of Gaming" Game Pass, they've already been pivoting on it more and more. They know they're losing their hardware dominance
Only a matter of time IMO before they work on getting Game Pass games on Linux. Which would be great because I got the bulk of my games from Game Pass these days lol
Backbone for normie stream tux edition is on the horizon
Get fuxked satya the creep... Seeing Windows constantly pinging microshit is a disturbing and disgusting experience.
Never again!
I understood several of those words.
Translation: Get lost, Satya Nadella (Microsoft's CEO). Seeing Windows contact Microsoft's servers constantly (telemetry) is disturbing.