As an outsider, I'd like to remind you 'muricans that you don't have a democracy, much less a democratic party. You have two big groups that are kept afloat by big money in need of "favors"
This must be one of the nicest ways I've ever seen someone call a group of people morally bankrupt whores without using any of those words
Keeping it at bay? The fuck are you smoking
Democrats do actively pass progressive reform, so who is really being duped? You who lets emotions and propaganda control your political outlook, or people who actually attempt to fight back by electing Democrats?
We're never going to badger the current DNC corporate shills into working for the people... They'll need to be replaced before we can hope to stop the ratchet effect and start making real change
The DNC needs the far right. Without it, their candidates would have to run on actual positions, rather than just "Vote for us because we're not Republicans."
That's not really fair. Democrats voting records and policy agenda are always on point. The fact they can't win elections to ensure their agenda is the problem.
Too many people on the left have the attitude of "no one likes him because he has no friends" -- too stupid to see their own opinion is why the situation exists.
Coupled with being unable to accept they are ever wrong and the blindness to progress that has occurred. The left is its own worst enemy. The right hasn't had to try painting us as ineffective in decades, we do it better to ourselves.
Dems have been right of center for my entire life. It's only because we have such far-right propaganda about socialism and such in schools that this seems normal.
Edit: when I made some comment / argument on a position in debate class when I was 15yo, the teacher whispered "socialist" to the class. I didn't even know what that meant. Whatever I said, it was sure to be about helping people and making the world more fair to end up with that comment.
The DNC hires the same consultants for running campaigns that the RNC use so naturally they will all veer right. The DNC has stopped trying to represent the people and wants to get their turn at the money funnel.
Go listen to the Harris campaign featured on pod save america. These losers think they made the right moves, every time, and have no vision for the future that does not acquest to the right wing agenda.
Fun fact, how many eagles they feature in campaign ads doesn't dictate how right or left a politician is. Their voting history does. DNC as a whole is constantly veering left as polarization increased in the last 50 years.
"In my view, we need a strong Republican Party. We need a Republican Party that’s united." - Joe Biden
Joe Biden, Primary Donald Trump As A Republican - SOME MORE NEWS (2019)
Well, yeah...
The only chance an unpopular neoliberal has of being president, is the threat that they're the only other option to Republicans.
Otherwise they'd never get any votes.
So neoliberals want Republicans to be the biggest threat possible.
The context for that quote was a 2011 interview. The Obama administration was having trouble working with the Republicans because the Tea Party movement had gotten a lot of firebrands elected where working together with Democrats to effectively govern was unthinkable. The Republican House leadership since then has been weak, which has led to multiple government shutdowns.
This is politician-talk for "get your fucking shit together, you're embarrassing everyone".
Many layers to Dark Brandon /s
Just to be clear, it isn't up to DNC committes or legislators to defeat MAGA. That's our job. We have to go out and convince people to vote for the Democrats. Independents sometimes, too. We need to remove Maga from congress by defeating them in elections, us the citizens have to do that shit.
Stop blaming the solution for the problem we're making, WE need to DO THIS. This is OUR JOB.
What?!
The entire point of the democratic party is to get it's members elected.
And theyre a private party with no obligations to anyone else.
It's the parties job to convince voters to vote. It's not the voters job to always pick the lesser of two evils, especially when both parties use every opportunity to become more "evil" by siding with the wealthy more than regular citizens.
WE need to DO THIS. This is OUR JOB.
We're not the ones who just wasted $1,500,000,000 and paid ourselves millions.
If it's our job why the fuck are we paying people fighting against us to do it poorly?
How exactly are they keeping them at bay?
We're further from stomping it dead than ever before
They rule the fucking country
Yeah the American flavor of left actually enables facism. Sadly it’s the same thing you see in places like Germany, UK, Canada, and France. France is relatively better.
Except for the fact that it's France
We absolutely need to take advantage of the in-fighting, the DNC won't do it, but... we can get a Rich Vs. Poor narrative going...
Haha, no we can't. People enjoy the culture war way, way too much. Reddit and Lemmy are living proof. I see far more left vs right content than rich vs poor on here.
What is your definition of left-vs-right when rich-vs-poor is an explicitly left-wing framing? Are you so caught up in the culture wars to think left-vs-right is exclusively cultural?
We absolutely can
"What would the donors think!?"
Probably whatever you tell them to, provided they take the warning shots from the Apache choppers seriously 😁
Similar to how Netanyahu's faction in Israel kept funding Hamas to justify their objectives on control of the state.
They go to the same parties organised by the same billionaires and their kids go to the same schools and marry each other.
So what are governments in "socialist" societies?
"Ummmmm you're kidding right? Our owners would never allow that. I was thinking more like swoop in and openly become the new right! Nows our chance to take the economic left mask off and embrace our neoliberalism!"
I feel like the LotR "Cast it into the fire!" meme would also work, where the ring is "Rich People Money"
Abstentionists: *Don't vote for Dems*
Dems: *lose the election*
Dems: *go further right in an attempt to attract more voters*
Abstentionists: *surprised Pikachu*
I cannot believe that the democrats have completely disregarded the lead-up to, the years of the trump presidency, and everything that has followed.
One thing has been starkly and objectively true - republicans place party before country. Even if it hurts them or flies in the face of everything they claim to believe in, they’ll still vote republican. They have internally equated being a democrat to being lower than a pedophile, lower than a felon, lower than a nazi.
So no matter how far right the democrats attempt to go, the conservatives absolutely don’t give a fuck. They will set themselves on fire before they vote democrat. The Democratic Party needs to stop wasting time on them.
Abstentionists will damn themselves and everyone around them on principle. Shitty inconsistent principles at that. I'm angry about that, outraged even. But surprised? Baffled? In disbelief? Never. Dumb fucks ruining everything is just the way of the world.
This is an affirmation of your conclusion, btw. The DNC are stupid, as is the RNC base, as are abstentionists.
Aren't you concerned with your fellow countrymen being under represented by their options available in a First Past The Post voting system? Don't you care about democracy?
Say it louder so people in the back can hear it! This is very true, if Democrats did better in elections they would be able to accomplish more of their goals.
Cool, so next time we'll show up to support the Bernie-equivalent in the primaries unlike in 2016 and 2020, right?
Right...?
The constant refrain of "I don't understand why the Dem party is appealing to moderates when moderates win the primaries????" is immensely frustrating. And before the usual, predictable chorus of "RIGGED PRIMARIES" comes up, no, the DNC does not play fair, but that also doesn't mean they were stuffing the ballot boxes. They framed things in an anti-Bernie way, but that ultimately didn't matter because both times we lost by double digit percentage points against the fuckwad moderate candidate.
Our 'elites' are dogshit, but the essential problem is that the American electorate is neither educated on the issues nor particularly left. That is where change starts, so get educating instead of wishing for BAD elites to be replaced by GOOD elites.
And before the usual, predictable chorus of "RIGGED PRIMARIES" comes up, no, the DNC does not play fair, but that also doesn't mean they were stuffing the ballot boxes.
Rigged doesn't mean predetermined outcome, it means unfair odds. Claw machines are rigged. That doesn't mean you can't win a prize, but it does mean the odds that you'll win are very low.
They framed things in an anti-Bernie way...
That is a weird way to describe the Clinton campaign secretly taking over the party in 2015 and running the primary she was competing in. Here are excerpts from Donna Brazile's book, where she lays out exactly how Hillary took over the DNC. It's not the first time I've given you this information, but since you choose to ignore it, I'll keep sharing it.
When the party chooses the nominee, the custom is that the candidate’s team starts to exercise more control over the party...When you have an open contest without an incumbent and competitive primaries, the party comes under the candidate’s control only after the nominee is certain. When I was manager of Al Gore’s campaign in 2000, we started inserting our people into the DNC in June. This victory fund agreement, however, had been signed in August 2015, just four months after Hillary announced her candidacy and nearly a year before she officially had the nomination.
The agreement—signed by Amy Dacey, the former CEO of the DNC, and Robby Mook with a copy to Marc Elias—specified that in exchange for raising money and investing in the DNC, Hillary would control the party’s finances, strategy, and all the money raised. Her campaign had the right of refusal of who would be the party communications director, and it would make final decisions on all the other staff. The DNC also was required to consult with the campaign about all other staffing, budgeting, data, analytics, and mailings.
Officials from Hillary’s campaign had taken a look at the DNC’s books. Obama left the party $24 million in debt—$15 million in bank debt and more than $8 million owed to vendors after the 2012 campaign—and had been paying that off very slowly. Obama’s campaign was not scheduled to pay it off until 2016. Hillary for America (the campaign) and the Hillary Victory Fund (its joint fundraising vehicle with the DNC) had taken care of 80 percent of the remaining debt in 2016, about $10 million, and had placed the party on an allowance.
As Hillary’s campaign gained momentum, she resolved the party’s debt and put it on a starvation diet. It had become dependent on her campaign for survival, for which she expected to wield control of its operations.
Rigged doesn’t mean predetermined outcome, it means unfair odds. Claw machines are rigged. That doesn’t mean you can’t win a prize, but it does mean the odds that you’ll win are very low.
Would you like to elaborate on the implications of 'rigged' in the context of a primary conducted by the votes of the electorate? Don't play dumb.
That is a weird way to describe the Clinton campaign secretly taking over the party in 2015 and running the primary she was competing in.
Again, none of that changes the core argument I'm making here. "The DNC was on Clinton's side", yes, we already knew that. "Here's evidence that the DNC was on Clinton's side!" Yes, we already knew that. That wasn't being denied. But hey, why take my word for it when your literal source sides with me!
Pfffft good luck with that
The DNC is the far right. They only appear moderate next to overt fascism.
The left don’t turn out to vote so I expect the DNC to keep chasing people who actually vote and keep moving right.
Thats cause they are running worthless positions. They havent had a real primary since 2008, and have the most bland, status quo politicians. Status quo doesnt work when everyone is struggling to survive.
I think the lack of turn out is due to apathy.
I think it's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. The left is disappointed with the offerings, so they don't vote or get involved*. The people who do get involved then call the shots, which leads to more disappointing milquetoast offerings.
*Involved in the actual mechanisms of power. Not complaining on the internet, or voting once every four years. Unfortunately, money is power. I don't know how to fix that. I pray to saint luigi for guidance.
I'm glad to see I'm not the only who saw 2008 as the pinnacle year for Democrats and should serve as the blueprint for the present party to copy. Obama was very charismatic and a political operator. He ran on reforming healthcare which worked, even if it's not socialised healthcare and despite the worst obstructionist Republican Congress in history. The only criticism I would have of Obama was his drone strikes. At this day and age, any sort of American interventionist involvement at any capacity would not fly (no pun intended).
Thing is the left would turn out to vote if any of the candidates represented their interests. Becoming bootleg Republicans isn't how they win votes.
Guess the Right will just keep winning.
By your logic absenteeists should actually vote republican if they want democrats to court their vote.
They basically did already so why not?
