Why only cyclists should wear hi-viz in the dark? Cars can too!
Why only cyclists should wear hi-viz in the dark? Cars can too!
Edit: to clarify: the message in the ad is actually ironic/satirical, mocking the advice for cyclists to wear high-viz at night.
It uses the same logic but inverts the parts and responsabilities, by suggesting to motorists (not cyclists) to apply bright paint on their cars.
So this ad is not pro or against high-viz, it's against victim blaming
Cross-posted from: https://mastodon.uno/users/rivoluzioneurbanamobilita/statuses/113544508246569296
I actually fully agree with the message. Bring back bright colors for cars!
Also participating in traffic at night is always a risk so wearing at least a bit of high-viz is just to minimize that. It's not like we are wearing it in jobs for the look.
It's not victim blaming, it's practicality. You can be right, and still be dead. Motorbikers have the same problem as us pedalbikers
It's victim blaming because you are acting on the wrong side of the problem: in every field where you need to mitigate some danger, self protection is the last thing to do, not the first. The first thing to do is to act on the source of danger: avoid (es. bike infrastructure) and mitigate (es: redice speed, less cars, less dangerous cars...)
The number of dumbasses I see biking against traffic with no lights wearing black well after dark is too high for me to find this remotely serious.
Also, cars have a dozen reflectors, daytime running lights, and a ton of safety mechanisms.
Tldr: meme better, this is wrong and unsafe
A lot of the posts here read like the OPs don't actually know anything about cars. Or roads. Or traffic laws. Or common sense.
The satire misses the mark since cars already have strict mandatory visibility requirements by law. In the EU, you must have working headlights, brake lights, turn signals, daytime running lights (since 2011), fog lights, reverse lights, and reflectors. Driving without any of these gets you fined, points on your license, and fails vehicle inspection (TÜV/MOT). These aren't optional safety suggestions like cyclist hi-viz - they're legal requirements with real penalties.
I don't know about yankee laws...
Huh? Could you explain once more why this doesn't work?
Keep in mind that cycling also has a lot of visibility requirements, it is illegal to drive without lights at night, you need to have reflectors front, back, in the spokes and on the pedals. This also results in fines and points on your drivers license. Keep any remarks on enforcements for yourself, car drivers don't check or even fix their headlights the moment they break either as my last few drives showed me.
Comparing the optional wearing of hi-vis west to the optional painting cars a brighter colour makes sense when the goal is to mock the immediate question "well, was the cyclist wearing hi-vis?" that always seem to pop up when a crash happens.
State dependent. Maryland for example legally requires a front headlamp and a rear reflector in low visibility conditions. Also must have a bell or horn but can't have a siren (?).
It's less state dependent than you think. The feds have the last say in the safety equipment that comes on your car from the factory. They write the regulations on safety equipment for all highway vehicles.
What is interesting is that the NFPA, (the US National Fire Prevention Association), which writes the guidance for US public safety departments, has learned that you can have too much flashy-flashies and woo-woos and sparkles hanging on your vehicle. We used to hang as much as that stuff as we could on fire trucks and ambulances. Now, new rigs are toning it down to reflective chevrons and marker lights on the back end to prevent dazzling and confusing traffic as they approach a scene. The NFPA national tracking has shown a marked decline in tertiary accidents.
Reflectives and markers are important, but you can do too much can have worse outcomes because of it.
Cars have lights on them?
Good question. Yes they do. Hope that helped!
Bikes have lights on them too.
That's legally required? Every bike has a light on it by law?
Ideally. In the US you regularly see peeps riding without even reflectors. It’s insanity.
Where? I haven't seen a bicyclist using lights in months.
Cars have lights on them?
Yes, yes they do.
It's funny, but as a driver and a cyclist, the amount of times I barely saw the person on the bike, because they had no hi viz, no lights and no reflectors (and black/dark clothing), even in moderately good visibility conditions is too damn high.
It's not that big of a deal in cities, but I'd be really pushing it to ride my bike out on a 70+ kmph road, and you'd have to hold me at gunpoint to do it without any lights, because I'd be as good as dead anyway.
Of course black cars are kinda the same, except here in Poland every car is required by law to have at least position lights on at all times (yes, sunny daylight too), and it makes a world of a difference no matter the paint color.
I prefer when all people occupying the road, whether its a pedestrian, cyclist, motorcyclist, car, or horse rider be as visible as possible.
Its why I refuse to drive a gray or silver car. They blend in with the pavement at certain times in the am and pm and if it's raining really hard they disappear. In a lot of ways they are worse than black cars.
What's wrong with making sure you are visible? Why is that something to make fun of? (I'm not asking you directly, I just don't get the joke in the ad.)
I think any bike intended for road use should be equipped with lights
I'd even argue (this is what the Internet is for) that gray cars in rain are the absolute worst. They just disappear without any kind of lights on. I don't know why we don't just have headlights and taillights on all the time. It's how I've driven for the past 15 years, to me it just makes sense. I'm never caught forgetting to put them on when it's raining or when it's dark, because they are always on. I like people to see me, I do not want to be involved in a collision.
We have daylight running laws here as well, but those lights are different than the regular headlights and weaker.
In driving school they taught me to just put on my regular lights all the time.
They're a lot stronger than the daylight ones and make you more visible
To be fair, cars have headlight and taillights.
Here in Sweden cars are required to allways have their headlights on when the car is moving, making them far easier to see even during the day.
It us frankly one of the most annoying things about crossing the street when being abroad, cars having their headlights off during the day, it is much more difficult to see if a car is moving if it has the headlights turned off, than if they are on.
Bikes have lights too though?
That is not a requirement, you to have to have front and rear reflectors, I don't remember if side reflectors are required or not.
One thing that a lot of bikes has that is illegal here but ignored by the police, is a flashing front light.
Rear lights can absolutely be flashing, but front lights can't.
Wait what? There are countries where you can drive without headlights?
Places I've lived in the US people keep them off as the default. Here in Seattle people don't even turn them on at night half the time, I guess they think the street lighting is good enough. I try and signal people to turn on their lights if I'm biking at night and so far none that I know of have actually turned them on
Here in the U.S., (and I'm assuming it's the same elsewhere, but just explaining for simplicity), cars used to have a simple headlight switch, which also lit up the instrument cluster on the dashboard. It was an easy heuristic: If you can't see the gauges because it's dark, turn on the headlights.
Now, every car has a marketing-gimmick dashboard lit up all the time with all sorts of multi-color lights. In the cars I've been in, the headlight indicator just a small, green light in the corner. Drivers accustomed to the old way think that their headlights are on because the dashboard is lit up. The Toyota Prius was notorious for this when it was new; I used to joke that they didn't come with headlights as a way to save fuel.
It's not as bad now, but people just forget o sometimes. It's worse when cars have day-time running lights, because then the drivers see light coming from the front of the car and think all the marker lights are on.
Yes, here in Austria you are allowed to drive without headlights in bright conditions, only are required to turn them on when there is impaired visibility (night, rain, snow, fog, etc.).
E g. Germany
Only for motorcycles it is mandatory all day
Modern cars also tend to have daytime running lights that are switched on automatically when the ignition is turned on, and are meant purely for visibility.
With modern cars, you mean cars since some time early 2000s? Actual modern cars (5 yo cars), are the only ones I see not have headlights turned on during day time.
Apparently, it's not required under EU law to have the headlights turned on during daytime, and manufactures will rather have a couple of cm longer milage...
Right. You're not going to see the car color at night.
Whatever law required headlights on totally backfired. Rear lights are off and people don't realize or don't care, and now they won't switch on the actual lights manually because there's an automation.
IIRC there was only a short window when turning the rear lights off was a thing, and the law has since gone back to having to turn them on when the car is turned on. While there are still people in cars like that, they're a minority.
That bimmer looks sick
Not sure if the intended message is really coming through...
Seconding this opinion; I really wish non-commercial vehicles were prohibited from defaulting to black/white/silver/grey - being back the skittles colour palette!
Bringing back that yellow-ass SER Sentra paint for your BMW lmao.
Cars should be bright as fuck. A bright red, orange, green, or yellow car stands out way more than the black, white, beige and gray shit that dominates the road.
I especially love those bright headlights that blind you and the ones that have flashing LEDs on their undercarriage to distract you. (But actually I mostly agree, just pointing out the extreme cases which universally suck)
Cars used to have lots of reflectors on them in the 1980 and 90's. Especially I'm the head and taillight clusters.
Cars should also be required to have high vis strips like commercial vehicles.
I only wear hi-vis to take one more excuse away from the driver when they hit me. It doesn't actually help people see me in my experience.
In my city, the roads are not lit very well so high vis helps me see bikers a lot better.
I drive a Smart 451 which was silver initially. I can‘t count the amount of times that trucks and cars on the highway cut me off. At first I thought they were just assholes, but now I think its partly because its such a small car that the silver blends in with the street.
Two years ago, I wrapped my car in bright neon orange as part of an ad campaign from my company and it feels like I‘m getting noticed much more often. It‘s literally like a high vis west for my car.
Can confirm. My car is that colour. Am yet to collide with a cyclist.
I get the sentiment here but as I'll always say the car wins.
You can't call it a death machine and then act like it's not one.
Cars have lights built in. Humans don't. Wear the fucking highvis and save your life.
Either that or start wearing light strips all over yourself.
Okay but hear me out here, we design streets where bikes and cars don't have to share a lane. Crazy idea i know.
We should design streets for the cyclists and drivers we have, not the ones we want.
Fair point that roads should be designed a lot better, but in the mean time, if you're going to be driving on roads that got put down originally 50 years ago without cycling paths and no lights in the middle of farmland. Wear the high Viz gear or make sure you have working lights and reflectors.
I personally prefer the option of equipping a comically bright headlight to the bike to emulate a lifted truck.
Congratulations! I'm now blind and have a legitimate reason to run you over.
Your standard bicycle has light too? If it's about being the safest cyclist possible, you'd also need a loud siren declaring that a bicycle is on the road. At some point it is ridiculous how many non-mandatory rules you need to follow until drivers accept that they are to blame for the crash, how about we stick to the actual laws and people who can't see a vehicle fitted with reflectors and lights get off the road.
Hint: seeing the lights on a bicycle is easier when your wind shield isn't 2 meters of the ground.
Your standard bicycle has light too
No it doesn't. It has reflectors but not actual lighting. I've almost hit a few cyclists who relied only on the reflectors on the wheels, front peg, and rear peg.
Hint: seeing the lights on a bicycle is easier when your wind shield isn't 2 meters of the ground.
I'm not arguing pro cars here. My point is keep yourself fuckin safe. Don't be stupid just because "bUt CaRs ArE tHe PrObLeM"
You can't say they're a problem and then act like they're not a problem.
Complain all you want it's perfectly valid. But do the shit you have to do to keep yourself the fuck alive.
Seeing as many people drive WITHOUT LIGHTS
Which country? I have not seen a car build after 2005 that turn on the light automatically every time where the weather is a bit gloomy, let alone during the night.
Because if too many people and things use hi-viz, that will make it regular-viz.
so some cyclist should wear black to help their fellow cyclists
Arguably, if everything is high-viz, then cyclists may just blend in between the cars and be overlooked again. It does make sense that weaker participants in traffic are more visible, as long as everyone else is also visible.
I thought I bought a blue car. It was advertised as blue, paint job clearly said blue, the rendered image of the color was blue. My insurance paperwork states it is blue (as that's what the NVIS calls it).
In real life, i have a black car. The blue pigment is so dark that is black, except in very specific, harsh lighting at certain angles. And then you can see it sparkles blue.
If only it had lights
(I know what community I’m in and that the original post is satire)
I mean, OP says it's satire but then says they're mocking the advice to wear hiviz. As if it isn't the law pretty much everywhere to have functioning lights on a vehicle.
Did you not look at the car before buying it?
We can't even make blacking out essential safety equipment like headlights and tail lights illegal, apparently a driver's personality and style should come before functional lights.
What? Where is this? In Belgium you'd get pulled over for sure. Depending on if the car could get made road legal again it could get towed too.
North America. Very common on sports cars or with people who like to modify their cars. They do still light up when the bulb is on although not as bright. My bigger issue is that light won't reflect off blacked out lights the same way it does off a regular tail light. It is a massive safety hazard but "my freedom" seems to be a valid reason for it.
I never understood people buying black cars. Not just because of visibility, but they turn into f-ing ovens in the summer.
It's not like there's always the choice. My previour car was red, and I wish I could have bought me current one in a bright color, like red or orange, but there was just black or grey, it's so boring
There you are right. Anything but black, gray, and white has become nearly extinct.
I have a black car. I just like black. I haven't noticed it to be much worse than any other car I've had during the summer. I had a white car of similar dimensions for a while before that and it felt just as hot. Or at least past the threshold of "too hot".
It should be noted most models of cars have high-vis parts on them, usually on the rear, that work the same way.
I mean I don't mind the aesthetic.
Score!