Arch Linux and Valve Collaboration
Arch Linux and Valve Collaboration
We are excited to announce that Arch Linux is entering into a direct collaboration with Valve. Valve is generously providing backing for two critical projects that will have a huge impact on our distribution: a build service infrastructure and a secure signing enclave. By supporting work on a freelance basis for these topics, Valve enables us to work on them without being limited solely by the free time of our volunteers.
This opportunity allows us to address some of the biggest outstanding challenges we have been facing for a while. The collaboration will speed-up the progress that would otherwise take much longer for us to achieve, and will ultimately unblock us from finally pursuing some of our planned endeavors. We are incredibly grateful for Valve to make this possible and for their explicit commitment to help and support Arch Linux.
These projects will follow our usual development and consensus-building workflows. [RFCs] will be created for any wide-ranging changes. Discussions on this mailing list as well as issue, milestone and epic planning in our GitLab will provide transparency and insight into the work. We believe this collaboration will greatly benefit Arch Linux, and are looking forward to share further development on this mailing list as work progresses.
Some extra fun details from the staff discussions around this: Valve is not interested in control of the distro, but are mainly interested in funding work on projects that are chosen by Arch staff, and are already things that Arch staff wants to implement. The projects chosen are indeed things that Valve also want to be part of the distro's infrastructure, but the process has been totally in the hands of Arch staff.
I gotta say, it's been really cool to see Valve go through the process of considering OSS as not just a useful tool or worthwhile target, but as a robust collaborator.
First, they build and maintain their client on Linux, and build their games to run natively on Linux, learning that things aren't actually as difficult as it's commonly made out to be, and the things that are more difficult than they need to be can be fixed by working with and contributing to the existing community.
Then they consider building their own hardware, but try the half-way approach of building SteamOS on top of Debian, and depending on existing hardware vendors to build machines with SteamOS in mind, learning that there's a lot of unnecessary complexity around both of those approaches to that goal.
Then they learn how to develop and build 1st party hardware with the SteamLink and Steam Controller.
Then they put the lessons from the Steam Machine project into practice by dumping loads of time and effort into Proton, knowing that they won't have the market unless they can get Windows games to run on Linux in a reliable and seamless way.
Then they put all that knowledge and effort together to do the impossible: unite PC gamers of both Windows and Linux flavors under the banner of the SteamDeck, a fully gaming-focused, high-quality, and owner-friendly piece of kit that kicks so much ass that it single-handedly pulls a whole category of PC hardware out of obsurity and into the mainstream.
And what do they do with that success? Literally pay it forward by funding work on the free software that forms the plinth that their success stands upon.
Good on Valve.
Valve is a Titan doing incredible work for the open source community and making money while doing so.
Successful open source software business model at work. Way to go.
Successful open source software business model at work. Way to go.
I don't think FOSS represents a lot of how they make money, the money making is probably all closed source, so I don't think it's a good example. It's more like a for-profit company also doing so good quality charity work on the side. It's mostly good for their image and a way to tell Windows that they could go without them if they don't collaborate.
I fully enjoy what they have been doing as a Linux only patient gamer for the past years, but I am realistic.In reality, it's likely a self-preservation move. Microsoft made what appeared to be a monopolistic move to control the entire Windows ecosystem when they added their own app store and the locked down S edition of Windows. If Valve both hadn't invested in Linux and Microsoft hadn't halted going down that path, they would have been screwed.
steam on linux was officially launched because gaben said windows trying to build a walled garden can go fuck right off. and he was right on the mark; as microsoft keeps buying big studios and locking down their ecosystem more and more. steam going linux and the steam deck are direct responses to wrangle control out of microsofts hands - and with all rights, considering the debacle of directx when that launched and pushing gaming to make hardware development a priority which in turn made microsoft licenses sell for new computers.
Successful open source software business model at work. Way to go.
Their main product is a proprietary software launcher that for decades has pushed videogames and the whole industry into a closed environment making them billions. It's good that they are now supporting linux and collaborating in open source projects but let's not forget who they are.
Let's also not forget how absolutely groundbreaking Steam was for digital distribution.
I really have a hard time accepting that they "pushed" the industry rather than that they offered a platform with features that were worlds beyond what was available at the time for game developers and publishers. No one was bribed. There were no shady backroom deals. No assassinations of competitors (in fact the opposite, doing experiments with cross platform purchases with the PS3 and with GOG). There was no embrace extend extinguish, as there was nothing already existing like it to embrace or extinguish.
Also saying that they are now supporting linux and open source is ignoring a long history of their work with linux. This isn't something new for them. What's new is yet another large step forward in their investment, not their involvement.
Look, like you, I am concerned about their level of control over digital distribution game sales for the PC market. But from a practical standpoint I find them incredibly hard to have any large amount of negative feelings about them due to their track record, and the fact that they are not a publicly traded company so they are not beholden to the normal shareholder drive for profit at any cost. I'd love to hear more reasons to be concerned if any exist rather than "proprietary" and "too big".
On top of that, Steam DRM is pretty notably easy to bypass, with what appears to be relatively little effort from Valve to eliminate the methods. They aren't doing the normal rat race back and forth between crackers and the DRM devs that you would expect.
Anyway, again I'll say: I'd love to hear more reasons to be concerned beyond "proprietary" and "too big".
I'd like to see a Sankey graph of where Valve's money goes before I praise them that much for helping out a Linux distribution a bit.
Lots of major companies like Microsoft and IBM also contribute to Linux, it doesn't make them saints nor even necessarily compare to what they get for using the volunteer dev work inside Linux.
Gabe Newell is a billionaire, Steam is a defacto monopoly that objectively charges more than they have to, and literally everyone who works at Valve is in the 1%. Let's not fall over ourselves dick-riding them.
Being cautious of a corporation is never a bad thing, but remember: Valve isn't a public company. They don't have the same incentives and fiduciary duties that led to the enshittification of most other companies and services.
Ultimately, yes, everything they do is entirely for their own benefit. But, they're also free to focus on their long-term growth and returns. As long as the leadership doesn't get changed to a bunch of shit-for-brains golden parachute MBAs, they're going to want to keep their customers happy. It's good for them, and it's not terrible for us. Everybody wins.
I would prefer they were a nonprofit, but I'm not going to complain when the mainstream alternatives to Steam are mostly comprised of shitty sales-focused storefronts created by companies beholden to their investors.
Lots of major companies like Microsoft and IBM also contribute to Linux, it doesn't make them saints nor even necessarily compare to what they get for using the volunteer dev work inside Linux.
Most of those companies actually contribute to the kernel or to foundational software used on servers, but few contribute to the userspace for desktop consumers on the level that Valve does.
Valve: "Yeah, we funded Arch (btw)"
Valve are such Chads.
Seeing a large company doing anything involving Linux besides blocking its users from using their product is a rare occurance these days.
I'm just waiting for some FOSS purist to find fault in this.
FOSS purists are too busy malding over systemd, and Steam being proprietary DRM, and games being closed-source.
Leaving the others aside, the last one is quite unsurprising considering the meaning of the acronym...
systemd controversy was never about purism. It was about some piece of software unasked for by the majority of users, including absolute majority of desktop users, being pushed with juvenile means and those disliking that being called words like "luddite".
It still is, believe me or not, I probably wouldn't find anything wrong in systemd (or pulseaudio, or Gnome 3) were it not pushed with that arrogant Apple or MS like approach of "we've rolled out this new feature in our system, and you're a weirdo".
Same reason I liked the very theoretical idea of something like Wayland, but Wayland itself I don't want to even try. Except for the possibility of something like CWM existing for it, that I can set up in 15 minutes with 20 lines of config file without levels of brackets etc (there is actual research as to how many levels various primates can process, chimps can't go above 3, and I'm apparently as intelligent as a chimp, because neither can I in practice, but so is Linus Torvalds with his famous quote about more than 3 levels of indentation ; the issue is that I don't want to strain my mind with that either when with a few X11 window managers I don't have to). There's none I've found yet.
Their politics trouble me. The technical parts may be sometimes arguable, but what isn't, our world is created with mistakes as building blocks. But I've started using Unix-like systems for the feeling of freedom and patience, and while RH stuff doesn't take away the former, it infringes on the latter.
As per Arch wiki
Arch is a pragmatic distribution rather than an ideological one.
If you're a FOSS purist, you shouldn't run Arch ethier way, because providing proprietary software for those who want it is one of the core principles of Arch.
You can use Parabola instead, which is basically FOSS-only Arch. This funding would likely also benefit Parabola indirectly.
Along with the recent Frog Wayland stuff, I'm happy to see Valve is gonna help linux desktop again lol.
From reddit:
Anybody remembers Linus saying "I hope Valve comes and fixes the packaging issue on Linux"? (yeah, on that ancient DebConf)
I hope Valve comes and fixes the very slowness of anything Wayland.
I just heard of Frog today, and I don't really like it. It just seems like bypassing review. I like the competing proposal of experimental wayland protocols (merged into repository as "experimental" and iterative if 2 weeks pass without anyone opposing) much better.
After 15 years of wayland development hell, I'm honestly open to anything. Problem is I can definitely see an experimental branch being just as scrutinized. One of the core issues highlighted was that features and requests were rejected because of hypotheticals and the maintainers trying to avoid fragmentation like early Xorg.
Basic features from X11 are still missing. Everyone ended up somewhat fragmenting anyway via compositors because weston wasn't really useful for developers beyond a demo. Wayfire started out as a Compiz redux and now its being considered by several DEs like XFCE to be the default compositor which they should standardize around.
Regardless, I really hope they nail it down in the next year because the halfway migration to wayland is seriously harming Linux desktop, especially when lots of frontend UI has been done perfectly decades ago on X11, and wayland still not properly supporting new features like HDR.
It's stuff like this that restores my faith in humanity.
I use Steam btw
Man it sure is a good day to be both a Valve and Arch fanboy.
Dude this is seriously cool as fuck. Valves contributions are priceless to the future of Arch and the rest of the Linux ecosystem.
Actually huge news. Linux as a whole benefits and needs more of this imo.
I hope it ends up similar to OpenSUSE's OBS, or even better, that they can reuse a lot of the work OBS has done. I use it and think it's fantastic.
Great news! Crazy to think that Valve is hijacking/liberating the Windows gaming library. You would think that Microsoft would be doing more to prevent this.
don't jinx it
Ha ha 😂
They kind of tried with UWP apps in the Microsoft Store, but they didn't catch on.
Valve has enough lawyer money to keep Microsoft at bay.
alright, time to wipe my Mint test/fun build and try out Arch. I don't do much with Linux but it's gonna be fun getting back into it. Who doesn't love the smell of a fresh OS install
That'll be... quite the Leap. I haven't done an Arch install, but the last time I did, it required a fair amount of reading since the installer doesn't walk you through everything. It's not hard per se, but it does take some time for the first install.
If you're not super familiar with Linux, I recommend holding off on Arch. This isn't coming from any form of elitism (I don't use Arch anymore) or lack of experience (I used Arch for > 5 years), just from reading between the lines of what you said, which indicates that you're probably not super familiar with Linux.
If you really want to do it, go for it! I think Arch is an absolutely fine distro, and I think there are a lot of good reasons to use it. I just don't want someone who may be new to Linux to get frustrated and end up not having fun. So don't let me discourage you, but also know what you're jumping into: probably a couple hours of getting the base system installed, and maybe another hour or two of installing packages to get to a usable system.
man you weren't kidding hahah. I appreciate everyone's replies but I'll definitely just leave Mint on there for now. I didn't get past the install process when it asked about connecting to a Wi-Fi network. I did some commands but couldn't find any networks, I think maybe a driver issue with my Wi-Fi adapter? ohh well
I still have the USB install drive if I'm feeling adventurous! and you'd be correct, I have little knowledge of Linux, I've only messed with a few simple distros like PopOS, Ubuntu, Mint, and another one I'm forgetting. I can't even get Steam to start up on my Mint distro haha
Archinstall is super easy. Just copy a few commands from the wiki to join a wifi network and then it will take everything from there.
Until you reach the part where you want to partition and encrypt your drives.
It's really good news that there's another company behind Wayland now.
RH frankly directs it against people using "marginal" setups and applications, thus less influenced by it, and not for some ambitious goal.
Valve tend to be well-meaning guys. Anyway, in this case it's in their business interest to be well-meaning.
Valve is not well meaning. No large for-profit company is ever well-meaning. It's merely the case that Valve's best interest happens to align with those of the consumer, and they have decided that their business model is going to be to win over consumers' loyalty through goodwill rather than milking them for every penny they can get. And they are very successful at this, seeing that there has still not arisen any serious competitor to Steam. That's entirely because consumers are loyal to the platform. Valve provides a good service, consumers reward them with loyalty. It's not friendship, but it's symbiotic, which is as close as you can get to friendship in the harsh world of business.
Yada yada I think Valve is well meaning and I'm still to trust anything Microsoft does is well meaning. OpenAi is just the latest manifestation of how you could do things well but intentionally choose the evil path.
I think we will be getting proper arch on arm!
Spent a few hours today installing vanilla arch for the first time because of this. Loving it so far.
This comment is missing the mandatory "btw." :(
This is a great step for humanity imo
Yo a distro collabing with a corporation this is soo fire 🔥🔥🔥
hell yeah
Would someone elucidate as to what this means for a normie PC gamer and begrudging windows user?
I would say this is great news all around. With SteamOS pushing the Linux market share higher than it's ever been, and a partnership with Arch to boost direct development, this could mean other companies taking a hard look at Linux and either developing native software or ensuring proton compatibility out of the gate.
I'm imagining "Runs on Arch" markers on software like the old "Works on Windows '95" stickers I used to see everywhere.
This puts competitive pressure on Microsoft. Valve's goal is to turn Steam OS into a legitimate competitor to Windows for gamers, and Microsoft should fear Valve's success.
Right now, Microsoft has no legitimate competitors in the PC gaming space. They are free to do anything they want to their OS and consumers have no choice but to tolerate it. If Microsoft say "watch these adverts", consumers open their eyes. If Microsoft says "pay up", they reach for their wallets. If Microsoft says "suck", they kneel.
If a competitor arises to Windows, then Microsoft will have to actually start worrying about losing customers to Steam OS. More importantly, every customer who switches to Steam OS is one who isn't paying for Game Pass and one who isn't buying games from the Microsoft Store and paying Microsoft their 30%.
Probably nothing. This is more steamdeck related stuff since the SteamOS is based on ArchLinux. And even then, it does not mean much for SteamDeck users. They wont notice much at all really. This might help with development a bit on valves end. The big news is really for ArchLinux users and maintainers which will see more effort in the development of that distro.
There is some wild speculation that maybe this makes arm for Arch Linux more official in the future. Which is based of the other recent news that Valve are creating an ARM emulation layer for running games on ARM devices. Which means maybe they are working on an ARM device and maybe need to start working on getting ARM support for Arch. Though again this is all wild speculation.
Does it even make sense to keep playing with a Manjaro VM or just go straight Arch?
I've been very happy with my Manjaro install on AMD GPU, everything worked out of the box on fist try install without any weird step. I would say you could jump straight to Arch/Arch-based, but first research about your GPU compatibility.
(I'm aware of how Manjaro is perceived and its downsides, please avoid comments suggesting me to switch).
Go endeavourOS if your first time. Manjaro has a bad track record, as shown at https://manjarno.pages.dev
Manjaro worked without issues for me for about 2 years, unlike EOS which broke within less than half a year and their forum is the most unhelpful and toxic clown show I've ever seen as they just insulted me to the point where the admins closed the thread and said I should make a new one if I still need help - hiding it in the process so it won't get indexed and shine a bad light on them. So I find the Manjaro hate very unwarranted and it seems to get way more hate than it deserves. Most of it is just a bunch of "what if" scenarios that never happened.
Using OSS in your product and giving the OSS devs resources to improve their software, instead of trying to take over their project? Did Valve not get the memo that big tech companies are supposed to be evil?? Oh right, they have a monopoly on video game distribution and all of their products rely on DRM.
they have a monopoly on video game distribution
People who claim that Valve has a monopoly on PC games are already wrong but you claim that they have a monopoly on video game distribution in general is outrageously false. The 2022 overall video game revenue was a bit over US$180Bn. The PC game revenue was US$45Bn. In 2023, all of Steam was responsible for US$8.6Bn in revenue. The biggest PC games (Fortnite, Minecraft, Roblox) aren't even on Steam and neither are any console or phone games.
Criticize Valve for actual things to criticize them for. Don't spread misinformation.
And even if they had a monopoly (which I agree that they don't), they have to actually abuse that monopoly to be a problem. Last I checked, the only requirement Valve has for games distributed on Steam is the devs can't sell Steam keys for less elsewhere, but they can sell as many Steam keys as they want outside of Steam w/o paying Valve anything. They can also generate keys for other distribution platforms and price them however they want.
That's extremely fair, and the fact that they're able to maintain a dominant position in the PC games distribution market without any exclusivity agreements or anything of that nature speaks volumes to the level of service they provide for both users and publishers/developers.
I have many games I own on Steam that I can play portably from a flash drive without Steam. DRM is still on the developer.
They have a monopoly on video game distribution.
They have a massive marketshare, but that doesn't make them a monopoly. Developers are still free to distribute their games through any other storefront/launcher, and Valve isn't going out of its way to engage in anticompetitive practices like exclusive publishing deals with third-party studios.
they have a monopoly on video game distribution
Last I heard you could buy games from GOG or Epic and install them on a Steam deck produced and subsidized by Valve.
Last I heard you could buy games from GOG or Epic and install them on a Steam deck produced and subsidized by Valve.
Or get them on PlayStation, Switch, or Xbox (Earth Walker claimed Steam has a monopoly on video game distribution in general).
Or, you know, a simple installer from the dev's website.
They also originated loot boxes (TF2)
I haven't gamed on pc for quite some time, but I remember every gaming company adding "launchers" for their games that you had to run to install and play their games. Even Nvidia did this with their fucking drivers. :)
Valve doesn't do any of that bullshit. Maybe that's why gamers like them?
Hopefully this would lead to a more (stable version of) ArchLinux.
Arch isn't unstable. Users mess it up by installing a bunch of random crap from the AUR or fiddling with system files.
SteamOS addresses this by making the root level filesystem immutable and guiding the user to install containerized (flatpak) apps.
Exactly. I ran Arch for over 5 years, and the only "instability" I had was:
- Nvidia drivers not matching kernel drivers - also happened on openSUSE Tumbleweed, and has more to do with Nvidia's driver being closed-source than anything Arch is doing
- systemd and usr merge - this was many years ago, and the only reason I messed it up was because I didn't actually follow the instructions; and this was an absolutely massive change
- I did something stupid - sometimes this is uninstalling the display manager or some other critical component
That's really it. I've since moved to openSUSE Tumbleweed and an AMD GPU, largely because of built-in snapper support and their server-oriented distros (Leap and MicroOS), and it wasn't because Arch was "unstable" or anything like that. In fact, I had far fewer issues with Arch than I did with the other distros I used before: Ubuntu and Fedora. It turns out, as you understand Linux better, you tend to mess things up less.
I've been using a Steam Deck for almost a year damn near daily with maybe 1 OS crash that was largely due to a very unstable game. How is ArchLinux unstable, exactly?
SteamOS is based on arch, but it has major differences. The steam deck's update mechanism is completely different from normal arch Linux.
Arch normally immediately updates to the latest version of every program. This is usually fine, but when a big bug is missed by the developers, it can cause problems.
The steam deck updates a base image that includes all the programs installed by default, and by the time it releases a lot of them aren't the absolute newest version. When valve updates SteamOS they definitely run a lot of tests on the base image to make sure it's stable and won't cause any issues.
SteamOS is also an immutible distro, meaning the important parts are read only. This also means updates are done to everything at once, and if something goes wrong, it can fall back to a known good version.
Not to say arch Linux is unstable (its been better for me than Ubuntu), but SteamOS is at a completely different level. It's effectively a completely different distro if we're talking about stability. I think what they're hoping is this support would allow arch to build out testing infrastructure to catch more issues and prevent them from making it to users.