Bots can now solve CAPTCHAs better than humans
Bots can now solve CAPTCHAs better than humans
Bots can now solve CAPTCHAs better than humans
Bro, everytime I get the select all the 'x' tiles (motorcycle, bicycle, bus, etc) one I never know if it means "all" of them, like even ones with just a little bit on the tile. Does it want the tires, too? It's bullshit. Never seems to be correct, what I select.
I've always done any square that includes any part of the thing, so the tire on the bus or the helmet of the motorcycle rider. That no longer works for me though, recently I keep getting more images and they seemingly never stop so I just give up on whatever I was trying to load. Its pretty ridiculous how shit the internet has become.
"select the bikes" That's a motorcycle and that's a moped. Those don't count-uh I fucking guess they do?
"Select the bus" Bro that's an intersection at 200 feet.
"Type the Captcha letters" Is that a lowercase r or a capital T?
Lowercase L and uppercase i are so fucking problematic
I found out recently that the letter captcha aren't case sensitive most of the time
IKR! i try and solve the CAPTCHA and theres a tiny 5 nanometer slice of crosswalk on another tile, and i have no idea if i need to click it or not. And then sometimes you don’t have that issue, and you click all the correct tiles, and then it just takes you to another one, and another one, and another one… they really need to improve it
I don't think it matters, as that isn't the real test. Instead, it's testing whether you are "behaving" as a human. Mouse movements, hesitation etc.
@[email protected] Then why does it keep repeating it if I get a tiny detail or a letter wrong?
Yeah, and if you move the cursor convincingly enough, it will just give the check mark without showing any pictures.
It starts checking your browser, input devices, screen info, etc, before you even click the are you human box.
I suspect it knows you’re human and keeps track of those people who are good at clicking the image, so they can harvest more training data. They know who will keep trying, and give them more images to verify.
Ah. Smarter than it appears.
Yes, every part, even the slivers. And the tires.
If it's like microscopic I just ignore it. Generally works pretty well. Trust your gut instincts.
Do it slowly and don't be consistent, sometimes I select the tile with 3 pixels of the thing its supposed to contain, sometimes I leave 2 or 3 tiles that clearly contain the thing, sometimes I just select a tile that doesn't even match. Idk, it always works, I suppose the erratic behavior is what shows them I'm human or smth
It looks what most people do and people are lazy, so, i guess, select only the fully covered tiles?
<click the traffic lights>
me: clicks all the traffic lights
<wrong!>
I hate that captcha -- the Google captcha where a single image (like a picture of a street with traffic lights, bikes, buses, etc) is divided up -- it is the worst one by far.
You can just click a couple squares and hit ok. It doesn’t have to be right.
I hate when the captcha starts at 1/10, so much so that I'll usually just walk away if I can.
You‘re doing it too fast most likely. Try doing it very slowly instead. I recently realized most captchas are designed for seniors, not tech savvy people. They will keep throwing them at you if you‘re too good at them. I think the joke that one day only AIs can solve captchas so you have to fail at them in order to be recognized as human has long become a reality in a way. Hope that helps.
So we just invert the logic now, right?
Make the captcha impossibly hard to get right for humans but doable for bots, and let people in if they fail the test.I haven't been able to solve CAPTHCAs in years.
I suggest you get an appointment with your local blade runner.
Let me tell you about my mother
Are you a robot?
<fails captcha>
I guess notDitching CAPTCHA systems because they don't work any more is kind of obvious. I'm more interested on what to replace them with; as in, what to use to prevent access of bots to a given resource and/or functionality.
In some cases we could use human connections to do that for us; that's basically what db0's Fediseer does, by creating a chain of groups of users (instances) guaranteeing each other.
Proof of work. This won't stop all bots from getting into the system, but it will prevent large numbers of them from doing so.
What prevents the adversaries from guafanteeing their bots that then guarantee more bots?
The chain of trust being formed. If some adversary does slip past the radar, and gets guaranteed, once you revoke their access you're revoking the access of everyone else guaranteed by that person, by their guarantees, by their guarantees' guarantees, etc. recursively.
For example. Let's say that Alice is confirmed human (as you need to start somewhere, right?). Alice guarantees Bob and Charlie, saying "they're humans, let them in!". Bob is a good user and guarantees Dan and Ed. Now all five have access to the resource.
But let's say that Charlie is an adversary. She uses the system to guarantee a bunch of bots. And you detect bots in your network. They all backtrack to Charlie; so once you revoke access to Charlie, everyone else that she guaranteed loses access to the network. And their guarantees, etc. recursively.
If Charlie happened to also recruit a human, like Fran, Fran will also get orphaned like the bots. However Fran can simply ask someone else to be her guarantee.
[I'll edit this comment with a picture illustrating the process.]
EDIT: shitty infographic, behold!
Note that the Fediseer works in a simpler way, as each instance can only guarantee another instance (in this example I'm allowing multiple people to be guaranteed by the same person). However, the underlying reasoning is the same.
Yeah kind of idiotic that the video kept saying that captchas are useless -- they're still preventing basic bots from filling forms. If you took them away, fraudsters wouldn't have to pay humans to solve them or use fancy bots any more, so bot traffic would increase
For the current state of the things I agree with you. In the future it's another can of worms - the barrier of entry of those fancy bots will likely get lower over time, so I expect us to see more fraudsters/spammers/advertisers using them.
I wonder if such a system could be designed to be privacy-preserving.
If using this system with individuals, privacy is a concern because it shows who knows who. And the system needs that info to get rid of bad faith actors spamming it.
However, if using it with groups of individuals, like instances, it would be considerably harder to know who knows who.
So what would be a good solution to this? What is something simple that bots are bad at but humans are good at it?
I work in a related space. There is no good solution. Companies are quickly developing DRM that takes full control of your device to verify you're legit (think anticheat, but it's not called that). Android and iPhones already have it, Windows is coming with TPM and MacOS is coming soon too.
Edit: Fun fact, we actually know who is (beating the captchas). The problem is if we blocked them, they would figure out how we're detecting them and work around that. Then we'd just be blind to the size of the issue.
Edit2: Puzzle captchas around images are still a good way to beat 99% of commercial AIs due to how image recognition works (the text is extracted separately with a much more sophisticated model). But if I had to guess, image puzzles will be better solved by AI in a few years (if not sooner)
I love Microsoft’s email signup CAPTCHA:
Repeat ten times. Get one wrong, restart.
iPhones already have it
Private Access Tokens? Enabled by default in Settings > [your name] > Sign-In & Security > Automatic Verification. Neat that it works without us realizing it, but disconcerting nonetheless.
So, the spammers will need physical Android device farms…
I know some sites have experimented with feeding bots bogus data rather than blocking them outright.
My employer spotted a bot a year or so ago that was performing a slow speed credential stuffing attack to try to avoid detection. We set up our systems to always return a login failure no matter what credentials it supplied. The only trick was to make sure the canned failure response was 100% identical to the real one so that they wouldn’t spot any change. Something as small as an extra space could have given it away.
Isn't the real security from how you and your browser act before and during the captcha? The point was to label the data with humans to make robots better at it. Any trivial/novel task is sufficient generally, right?
Smell? :)
Seriously, we probably need to dig into some parts of the human senses that can't be well defined. Like when you look at an image and it seems to be spinning.
Yes, or:
Which of these images makes you horny?
(Casualty would be machine kink people.)
I think this is a non-issue
Captchas aren't easy to bypass - run of the mill scammers can't afford a bunch of servers running cutting edge LLMs for this
Captchas were never a guarantee - one person could sit there solving captchas for a good chunk of a bot farm anyways
So where does that leave us? Sophisticated actors could afford manually doing captchas and may even just be using a call-center setup to do astroturfing. My bigger concern here is the higher speed LLMs can operate at, not bypassing the captcha
Your run of the mill programmer can't bypass them, it requires actual skill and a time investment to build a system to do this. Captchas could be defeated programically before and still can now - it still raises the difficulty to the point most who could bother would rather work on something more worthwhile
IMO, the fact this keeps getting boosted makes me think this is softening us up to accept less control over our own hardware
Proof of work. For a legitimate account, it's a slight inconvenience. For a bot farm, it's a major problem.
I think this is a non-issue
Captchas aren't easy to bypass - run of the mill scammers can't afford a bunch of servers running cutting edge LLMs for this
Captchas were never a guarantee - one person could sit there solving captchas for a good chunk of a bot farm anyways
So where does that leave us? Sophisticated actors could afford manually doing captchas and may even just be using a call-center setup to do astroturfing. My bigger concern here is the higher speed LLMs can operate at, not bypassing the captcha
Your run of the mill programmer can't bypass them, it requires actual skill and a time investment to build a system to do this. Captchas could be defeated programically before and still can now - it still raises the difficulty to the point most who could bother would rather work on something more worthwhile
IMO, the fact this keeps getting boosted makes me think this is softening us up to accept less control over our own hardware
Hey, failing at being a human being while trying to highlight where the bicycle starts and end on the picture is my job! You won't take that away from me, you fucking robot!
They may take our creative writing, they make take our digital art creation, they may take our ability to feed ourselves and our families. Hell, they may even take every single creative outlet humans have and relegate us to menial work in service of our capitalist overlords. But they will never take away clicking on boxes of pictures of bicycles and crosswalks!
am I gonna need an AI to solve captchas now?
cause they've gotten so patently stupidly ridiculous that I cant even solve them as a somewhat barely functional biological intelligence.
If some sites only need me to click the one checkbox to prove I am a human, why aren't ALL sites using this method?!
when you have to click once, means they have been gathering all your actions up to that point, and for sure you are human. If you get asked to click images, means they don't have enough information yet, or you failed some security step (wrong password) and the site told captcha to be extra sure
Of course they can! Humans have been training them on this task for 20 years.
There are two Brewster Rockit strips that are applicable here.
Eyyyyy we’re fucked 🙃
