Why are comments like "use Firefox" okay on Lemmy while "go vegan" is getting downvoted?
Why are comments like "use Firefox" okay on Lemmy while "go vegan" is getting downvoted?
People consider vegans on Lemmy as too preachy. Even in vegan communities here, mods have to remove soooo many inappropriate comments (I read a few of these and they keep getting removed for good reasons). Comments that suggest going vegan on posts about animal abuse are downvoted.
At the same time, whenever there is something about Windows or Chromium based browsers, people here are doing exactly the same. "Just use Linux/Firefox/whatever".
Go vegan.
Use FOSS.
Use public transport.
Reject flying.
Punch Nazis.
Tone. Use Firefox/Linux/whatever posts also get downvoted when they are to preachy.
Wrong: "If you use Windows/eat meat you are evil, repent now !!11! There are no reasons for any person to be doing it, if you don't understand that you are a monster as well."
Right: "I/my company/my dog were using Windows/eating meat and it's not all bad but the negatives outweight the positives. That's why I switched to Linux/not eating meat. If anyone else wants to try this is a good way to start: .... "
You're right but in my experience on Lemmy so far, it need way more for Firefox or Linux comments to be considered preachy while pointing out facts like "producing meat leads to animal abuse" is considered too preachy.
I'm not really biased in this since I'm biased towards both equally. Just wondering why everything mentioning veganism in any way on Lemmy (like this post) keeps getting downvoted.
This is not exclusive to Lemmy, this happens the same way in real life - when you critique their food choice people tend to get in the defensive. This happens whether it's about their health, ecology or ethics and of course it gets worse when you are implying that their choices hurt others.
Of course this is not exclusive to food. Everything that is seen as part of your identity leads to this defensive reaction (see politics, sports teams etc.) and they double down on their current stance. I bet vegans would be a LOT more successful if they would be more empathetic toward non-vegans and would approach this topic more tactically.
It’s not my experience that anyone mentioning veganism ends with a negative score.
How do you know you’re not just encountering sampling error? Maybe you’re in different communities than where I’m seeing veganism discussed.
Better: Bless the meat, damn the skin, open your kisser and cram it in.
Leviticus in a nutshell
Because meat tastes good, and browsers don’t taste like anything?
With "use Firefox" people tend to interpret as "try this thing instead, it's better or will do the thing you're looking to do"
With "go vegan" people tend to interpret it as "you're doing something wrong and need to change your habits".
Essentially, one is seen as a suggestion and the other an attack.
People don't really love chrome, but they do love meat. Go vegan suggests we get rid of something we love.
You are in the fedi, a fringe social space generally uses by IT focused people. People love their linux here because these instances are probably all hosted on Linux. People are here because they left traditional social media.
I'm not saying veganism isn't welcome here. You just have a ton of tech people here. If reddit tried to ban vegans instead of punch advertising down people's throats you would have more vegans instead of people who use Firefox.
Suggesting a browser or bashing a corporate brand are not the same as encouraging morally driven life choices. Is that not obvious?
Not really obvious to me. I'm bashing corporate brands as a "morally driven life choice" as well.
Use Vegan Fox.
Go Fire.
Is using a vegan fox, vegan?
That depends on what precisely you mean by "use", buddy.
Find a thread where someone is looking for a piece of FOSS software and someone comes in saying "I've tried all the FOSS projects, but I find X [paid or not open source] just works better for me" and you will see the reaction you want to see.
Like vegans, FOSS people are a minority community with stiff moral stances and they hold their beliefs for very specific personal reasons. To the FOSS people, suggesting they use closed software is likely the same as when people tell you that you must not be getting enough Vitamin B or whatever because you don't eat meat.
As someone non-vegan and not overly concerned about FOSS, I've had guys and bad interactions with both groups. I've had bad reactions when I've suggested free but closed source solutions and gotten bad reactions in return, and I've shared things with vegans who liked my original things I've shared about meat and dairy alternatives and their opinion of me changes when they learn I hunt for food.
People get defensive when you either question their morality or people question your morality. We can attempt to understand others' actions and beliefs, but we truly only understand our own, and that can make us all act out irrationally. It can be hard to not try to show others why you made your personal moral decisions, and it's fine to try to share or teach others your values, but there's a fine line between sharing beliefs and getting pushy about it, and it's different for everyone.
I read an interesting discussion on someone claiming that they ate plant based food rather than being vegan, as veganism is a loaded term these days. Suggesting people eat a more plant based diet is an easier concept to internalise than veganism.
That's a good idea :)
Whether it's true or not, veganism is associated with self righteous people, and also with complicated diets and the lack of nutrients nonsense. Plant based food isn't, and sounds like it's something that you can just pick up while you're shopping, rather than trying to figure out what you're supposed to do with quinoa and tofu.
I'm a bit fan of flexatarianism, aka half vegetarian. It's a lot easier on my body (which can barely digest red meat) and the environment.
It just means you mostly eat plant based with the occasional meat. For me it's mostly sausage or chicken when I do eat meat.
The decades of propaganda about veganism by the meat and dairy industry is deeply embedded in cultures at this point, conservative culture especially.
People have been trained so thoroughly that they literally have a visceral, irrational response to the word veganism. It's been made impossible to actually talk about in a coherent way with most people, and lemmy has a lot of redditor refugees who carry that kind of thing with them.
This is a good answer. Too bad people are downvoting it for the reasons mentioned.
This comment borders on some conservative talking about how they're "being censored for speaking the truth" after rambling about some conspiracy theory or saying something racist.
The person you responded to is basically saying that anyone who eats meat is a brainwashed moron without any agency. I rarely ever see anyone have such a visceral reaction toward someone who claims to be vegetarian. Why do you think that is?
The simple reason is that most people here already use Firefox, but not most people here are already vegan.
Vegan is a tradeoff. Replacing highly bioavailable food with lectins and other things. It can be done in a healthy way, but there is lots of nuance and discussion and it's a deeply personal choice.
Just because people agree on the tradeoffs of one thing, doesn't mean they agree with the tradeoffs of another.
Downloading firefox is easy.
Wish I could download a chili sin carne
you should do both tbh
Your examples would have more similarity with suggesting a vegetarian diet as an alternative to a mix or most meat diet. That would be a functional alternative, like suggesting a different OS or Browser.
Veganism more like a political statement that if you eat meat your are a bad person for harming animals. All vegans may be vegetarians but not all vegetarians are vegan.
I will admit there are many OS and Browser purists that might be more like vegans telling you, you are bad for choosing the one you currently use. There are FOSS purists that only tell you to use FOSS because it is NOT commercial not because the software is better for what you need.
However there’s a huge moral charge on veganism that isn’t there on FOSS stuff unless a person’s very eagerly drawing connections to AI apocalypse or something like that
Well there are almost religious Richard Stallman GNU/Linux followers.
Can you link to some examples of comments that got downvoted unfairly in your opinion?
it's two very different things and there are more lemmy users using free software than vegan lemmy users
Because nobody is calling you a murderer and rapist for using chrome, they're just calling you "spied on."