I feel like the idea that women are otherworldly creatures instead of people and seeing someone being nice to their partner as "the man having tamed a female and convinced her to treat him well" has a lot to do with his problem.
I hate how much that is preserved socially, there's no good reason why that hasn't gone away at least a decade or two ago.
It's learned helplessness. Once they get rejected 15 times in a row for being a weirdo or something similar, they start to think in that instead of either reflecting back on the experience and trying to be better, or looking elsewhere.
Simply going from zero self improvement to nonzero may not be enough. Thatâs why we call a situation like this a hole. A person in a hole needs to climb to get to ground level.
well yeah i get how you can start doubting yourself after that. sad as fuck.
Totally agree. I've been in a relationship for 5 years now, and it most definitely didnt involve me trying to tame her đ€Ł
It was just luck to meet. We both liked each other. That's literally it.
Yes. Being isolated is a result and a cause of strange views of other people.
Itâs a positive feedback loop that one needs to accept massive discomfort â on the part of the re-integrating person and on the part of the normal people theyâre re-integrating with â in order to escape.
Avoidance of disturbing others is a key part of men self isolating.
It definitely reeks of incel energy, which is unsurprising considering the source.
Yeah well thatâs kinda what happens
Of course people want make this guy into ultra Hitler and blame the situation entirely on him.
Funny thing, how the words âblameâ and âpowerâ refer to exactly the same thing.
Anon imagining a giant, insurmountable gap between his life and his coworker's life is a huge part of the problem.
He has a job, goes to the gym and apparently he is able to experience emotions. Also, a seemingly well-adjusted person inviting him home immediately suggests he is able to make a good and trustworthy impression.
He can jump the gap easily, he just doesn't know it, so he's timidly staring to the other side and imagining what it must be like to live there.
If you think you're flawed, unattractive and unworthy of love, you can easily remain untouched way into your adult life, just by sabotaging yourself.
Let's be honest here, given that we have a partial, biased peek into anon's life, there could be a myriad of reasons that make that apparently small gap a far more serious problem. He may have a notoriously ugly face or body, he may suffer from heavy anxiety at the tought is becoming intimate with another person as a result of trauma, he may have atypical nonverbal communication, he may not want to form a connection with someone he doesn't really have much in common with, he might be a mysoginist. These possibilities would limit his options a lot, and looking for someone when you're supposedly doing everything right but still having so much trouble is painful.
If not saying Anon shouldn't look for tools to actually find a partner if he wants to put in that effort, but that we shouldn't underestimate his difficulties.
Also, maybe he has body dismorphia which destroys his self confidence and therefore limits his contact to women even more.
Anon's co-worker would probably be willing to try and help him, especially given that he was helping them. The social nature of humans is our low-key superpower.
Evolutionary biologist here.
The social nature of humans is our high key superpower. Itâs an increasingly common position that our individual intelligence is at least in significant part a side effect of an evolutionary arms race in an increasingly complex social environment, and that this was added to by the multilevel selection dynamic of increasingly cooperative groups. See EO Wilson for more details, as heâs one of the more prominent biologists who studied the phenomenon.
My horny ass was waiting til coworker and his wife asked to get fucked by op
A+ for the literary exercise. Authror played us like a fiddle. I still love these greentexts, even if they're fake. All good fun.
Yeah I definitely thought it was either going into full threesome fantasy or that OP would get a boner or do some other high IQ move on the wife.
Maybe they would have if op hadn't ran out! At least that's what I'm going to imagine...zip
Same homie same
Definitely looks like thatâs where it could have gone.
I wanted to give you an upvote, but you are at 69 right now an I couldn't bring myself to do it.
You might wanna try dating apps, its often easier than most would like to meet swingers and couples looking for their third, their unicorn. But negotiating a threesome is more difficult than most of them are ready for.
A 22 year old that's married with a house?
Lol
Just said his house. At no point did I interpret this to mean he owned it. If your a renter you still refer to it a my house when inviting people over.
"hey, wanna come over at my landlord's house?"
That gave me pause, too. But I have a family member who bought a house at around 19 - a fixer upper in a semi rural area in Georgia (the US state) with a down-payment from his family. His dad helped him repair it and make it liveable. So that's lending some verisimilitude to the story.
Upvote for specifying US state, not the country!
It's possible in a very rural area with mommy and daddy's help, but it's definitely not 'finding happiness'.
Owning a house means being house poor, can't buy what you want because all your money is spent maintaining your property. That's stressful.
Getting married in your early 20s is also a recipe for disaster, you change too much in that time period and have no idea what you really want out of life. FOMO starts to hit as 30 approaches and both partners blame one another for trapping them in an isolated home with no money and the next 50 years looking exactly like the last 10 did.
Yeah when I was 16 I had a 19 year old girlfriend who owned her own place. It wasnât a small place either, 5 bedrooms, 2 bath, large living room and an entertainment room.
She bought it for 20,000 in a tiny rural neighborhood in the middle of nowhere. It was always packed with young people partying. One day she got married, had kids, and raised them there.
She sold the house about 5 years ago for 60k and used that as a nice down payment on a nice house in the middle of town.
She got the place for a damn good price. It was in an old mining town and had been cared for since the 60s by a housekeeper for a rich family who left when the mines went under. Iâm not joking, when we went to look at the place it was a time capsule. It had magazines in baskets in the kitchen from the 60s. The decor hadnât been changed. The woman who lived there kept to her one room and maintained the rest of the house. It had the color tv the owners bought in the late 60s, a bookshelf with old encyclopedias, the original washing machine and classic stove. The guy who owned it was the owner of the local cable company and there was a building full of old cable hardware. He had a washing room built outside for the lady who stayed there where she kept her personal belongings. It was a large room with an attic. Hell, someone could have lived in there honestly.
It was amazing. Kind of broke my heart to see it changed.
What a dumbass, had that masseuse chick right there and he married a building
Renting exists.
Yeah these creative writing exercises are getting very creative
He could be in the military. I know a few people married with houses in the US at about that age, and the story fits.
He's fucked his life up 3 times then
Sounds like the south
To anyone who is in the position of anon, the task is simple, just spend time with them. Treat them like people, which is what they are, instead of something to be won or to be won over.
Mutual respect, common principles, and a spark is all that's really needed. Understand that while you may be interested, they might not be. Would you really want to be with someone who doesn't genuinely want to be with you? Probably not, so just keep going. You'll get that spark eventually and things will kick off. Until then, be a good person and treat everyone with respect.
The whole confidence game is a bit misleading too. Confidence comes from being proud of yourself, more than anything. If you're not proud of yourself, perhaps that's an area to improve. Do things that you'll be proud of, and become someone who is confident in the process. Understand that not everyone will be impressed by your achievements, and that's ok. It's not a competition.
Any person who will shame others for their interests probably aren't worth knowing.
If you have serious struggles with confidence and relationships, there's no shame in seeking help with the council of a friend or from a professional.
Be well.
To anyone who is in the position of anon, the task is simple, just spend time with them. Treat them like people, which is what they are, instead of something to be won or to be won over.
For OP, who is lacking massively in experience with both intergender emotional connections as well as intergender physical intimacy, your methods are unlikely to work anymore. Most age-appropriate women for him are going to be looking for an experienced man, and will be revolted by his lack of experience.
And yes, even my wife (46) confirmed this in a recent conversation last year, and sheâs pretty darn progressive. Beyond a certain age - usually around 22, but it differs with each woman - most women start getting turned off by any inexperience a man might have with emotional and physical intimacy. By this age, women begin to want and prefer an experienced man who has proven his worth with prior relationships.
Why? Because an older man without experience practically screams âI am an exceptionally poor choice for youâ precisely because no other woman has decided to take a chance on him -- this is an actual preselection sexual strategy found in almost all women.
Sure, he might still find someone. But at his age, the likelihood that heâll be chosen for any reason other than being an ATM and/or a surrogate father to children who arenât his, is statistically about as close to 0% as he can get. He has about as much chance of finding a truly good and loving woman (who is still single, childless, and not below the half-plus-seven rule) as he does winning the Powerball several times in a row.
I agree that it limits the number of woman that might be options.
But you are making it sound neat impossible. And that that is just not true.
Somebody will be out there who sees something in op. It might take a bit to find her, but honestly, as long as he learned to treat her as a human beeing and not as an asset to aquire he'll be good.
I met my wife with 36 while she was 38. There are reasons she was single. There where reasons I was a single.
We have been the happiest couple I can imagine and I can't fathom how much luck I had.
Don't give up. Learn to be a descent humans. The rest will fall into place eventually.
You're making one very serious assumption that ruins your entire argument.
You assume that all women 22+ are going to have the same opinion as your wife.
You're assuming that I'm speaking exclusively about lonely men, not even stopping to consider that the advice I gave would have any use to women.
Factually, there are plenty of lonely women, ladies who may never have been kissed, etc. The difficulties that would lead someone to be in the position of being, for lack of a better term, a 40 year old virgin, are not exclusive to men.
There are entire communities dedicated to people who are "forever alone" (so far), with other people who are the same.
And that's not even considering all of the other types of intimate relationships people can have.
It's so arrogant to think that your small, isolated and anecdotal experience is the only way things are, or could be. Then you use that anecdote to essentially tell people who are in that position that they're essentially without hope. How cruel. Even if your words had merit, throwing in the face of people trying to give people genuine advice is simply one of the worst things you could have done.
Clearly, your mother never told you that "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".
Enjoy your ratio.
Can someone get me in contact with green text anon guy? I'm a licensed massage therapist, I'm a woman, my hobbies are working out and he likes working out too and it was so poignant how he responded to that massage and he appreciates women and massage and health and his reaction to being the sad lonely third wheel was so heartbreaking and he deserves love.
He's behind 7 proxies, and at least one of them is emotional. In scientific probable reality he doesn't even exist.
Also not sure if it's a joke or some other angle, but there's lots of dudes out there (and on here) like that but I wouldn't expect it to ever work out well (if any offer was even accepted). It'd be long/difficult process even for doctors/therapists to fix people like this up with today's options. Maybe volunteer somewhere instead (if you don't already).
why are people here talking about fixing? What ecactly are the things he's told that need fixing? That he's nervous to ask women to go on a date? How does this mean he needs fixing? I'm sorry can we stop pretending we need to be perfect before having a relationship?
The amount of pressure this puts into people is crazy, if you have obvious problems you should ofc fix them but a ton of times having someone by your side and them having you can help tons if you both are sincere and communicating.
Just stop it please, this dude showed nothing wrong, if anything how he realized he misses being in love with someone, my god.
Don't choose a guy to fix him, it does good for neither of you.
This.
Unfortunately, this old quote is true far more often than not:
Women marry men hoping they will change. Men marry women hoping they will not. So each is inevitably disappointed.
She might be intending to help him, not be with him.
This was a truly wholesome response, not that garbage that reddit considers a wholesome moment
Hey i like working out too
Loneliness epidemic. Anon is not alone. I mean, he is alone in a way, but he is also not alone in a different way.
Steve feelin' lonely, but Steve ain't alone.
There's a million other Steves in their little Steve homes...Totally.
I'm there right now in a way. Between pandemic, being single, and living off-grid in the woods...
It'd been 2 years since I had any physical contact with anyone. Was visiting a friend a few weeks ago and they hugged me when I left. I had to pull back because I could feel the emotions building. Until that moment I hadn't realized how lonely I was and how much I missed being close to another person. Didn't think I had the desire to date again but now I know I have the need.
I was expecting surprise threesome but received surprise depression instead
Anon flew so close to the sun and didn't even know how hot it was.
I have quite a bit of sympathy for this man. Never being loved or touched makes for a broken mind. As repugnant it is to say I'm relieved he turned his misery into self hatred rather than anger to those around him. Hopefully he will either find someone or ages out of the desire for romantic companionship thus ending his turmoil.
What the fuck are you talking about. Self hate is surely not helpful for anything and definetly not for finding people that like you or turing into a decent person. smh
Self hate can go three ways: deterioration, motivation, or repression.
Deterioration is the worst outcome for the individual. Self hate becomes learned helplessness which can cripple a person's mental state.
Motivation is usually the most productive. Using that self hatred as a starting point to address personal issues. The original author stated they were going to the gym on the regular, considering what they wrote I would conjecture self hatred might be the motivation there.
Repression varies in harm to an individual. You either accept and move on about negative aspects about yourself or you ignore them outright. It's the bottling up of negativity, not addressing the underlying issues. This is the way some people handle criticism, which can be disastrous for society when powerful people keep adopting this method.
Now to address your statement about self hatred not being helpful for finding someone or becoming a decent person; not processing negative emotions isn't healthy and a girlfriend isn't going to be a magic fix for the author to be happy.
What's a "khv wizard"?
Kissless handholdless virgin. Basically ânever been kissed, never held hands, never had sex.â Thereâs a running internet joke that if youâre still a virgin by the age of 40, you get rewarded with wizard powers.
30
Man that's a rough read
How come such people don't understand that they might need help, professional help?
Is it shame or they don't understand there might be a serious problem?
I am/was in a similar situation. Getting better is such an insurmountable thing when you're there. When things have been so bad for so long that they're not just normal but comfortable in a terrible way, just telling a friend about it is extremely difficult to do. Even if you can gather together the will to try to seek out professional help, you probably won't keep it long enough to actually make that far. And, some part of you that you're desperately trying to keep quiet is telling you that if getting help is that easy then you've just wasted your life laying around being helpless and useless and shitty when it could have been better and that's something else weighing down the "kill yourself" side of the scale. You've been accepting it and coping with it for so long that it's the only future you can ever see yourself having.
I think a lot of them don't believe therapy can change anything about their situation.
They don't think it has anything to do with their mental health. They believe that them being lonely, unwanted and unworthy of love is just the natural state of things and all they can do is learn to cope with it. And as long as they can function and get by most days, that's as good as it will ever get for them. So in their logic, therapy makes no sense because there's nothing to improve.
The very low default state of being is very accurate. It's how you survive when things are that bad, you can't hope things will get better because that won't happen and it will only push you lower than you already were when you inevitably give that hope up again. You are incapable of being close to people, because it's just not possible to support you. You'll just end up dragging them down. Trying to find a relationship is just not something you're capable of, and yet you still resent the loneliness. You either blame yourself and the depression gets worse, or you blame the people you couldn't have a relationship with anyways because you can't try and really go down the road to inceldom.
It's not like most people going through this are unaware of their mental health problems. It's just that the thought patterns you're stuck in keep you stuck in them. Getting help seems like a herculean task, and you will never have the strength to attempt it.
Probably the biggest one is cost for therapy (or waiting lists, scheduling, paperwork, transportation/distance, or thinking it's not gonna do much especially if they have other untreated issues).
And get help where? I have different issues which I even have a proper diagnosis for and even then no therapist will even put me on a waiting list. The few times I have gotten in to see a therapist I only got a few sessions before they all basically started shoving me out the door. I'm mostly functional and not actively suicidal so I'm just not a priority. They all have people with worse issues that need to be helped so I'm at the bottom of the triage list. OOP is working, excercising, and socializing. They're even more functional than I am. No therapist is going to so much as give them the time of day if my experience is anything to go by.
or both and maybe even some other things
Haha relatable
Sadly I can relate to anon.
How fucked am I that I laughed at this post
Me too
"Those who do not move, do not notice their chains."
This pain and shame is a universal experience for those who plan to make big changes in life, and I hope that poster who got a taste of freedom works his way loose of what burdens him. That shame, that perspective on women being so alien to him, that score keeping of virginity and touch. Shame is so unhelpful, and change is a natural element of human life. You can do it!
That's so sad. This is the fault of social media.
this happened before social media too. it may have been made more common, but even then itâs hard to say if thatâs just us seeing it more because of social media. the internet has us all connected in a more intimate way, for better or for worse.
I wish it were this simple. I think it's cuz young men often don't have friends. Once you don't have IRL friends, it's very hard to get out of that hole. If you have IRL friends, then you can meet more people, otherwise it's just weird. Like, tf are you gonna do, use a dating app or cry on r/lonely or what?
What I've seen recommended a lot (by psychologists as well) is going to an event you'd have fun at already (a fair, concert, band, choir, language course, hobby activity like dnd or LAN games) and just keep in mind while you're there to try and get more comfortable being around people.
A lot of places like that force interactions, which can help you become more comfortable. If you're doing something you like then the people there will probably be more similar to you, which makes it easier to make friends. Two of my closest friends were met through 1. language class, and 2. a game we both happened to play that left empty time to chat.
If that's too much, you can try doing something small to get yourself more comfortable, even if it's just hanging out in an online chatroom.
Umm. You can meet people anywhere. Hobbies are a good example. I have a scuba club, a pinball league, golf buddies, work buddies, etc. We have legit hung out a lot with people we met at the dog park. Itâs not as tough as I thought once you get out there and do stuff. I met my wife on a dating app many years ago. The apps now are so much better. Iâll forever be curious what it would have been like to date people now. It sounds like you can essentially set a beacon saying you just want some ass. When I was online dating, it was not the norm and it was all damaged goods.
Social media is partly to blame. I feel this is also the fault of bad parenting. Not that the parents were bad people, but they definitely neglected their child on teaching them social skills. A man doesn't become like this out of the blue the moment they turn 18 and move out of the house. Like I see men like that often in my Asian community, many Asian parents force their kids to study hard and tell them they can't have a boyfriend or girlfriend until they have graduated college. And often they don't even have friends because they don't have time to hang with other people of their age. Boys raised in such a household are socially deprived and end up friendless and socially inept as an adult and if they have friends it's often men who had the same youth so it's just a circlejerk of virgin men who can't teach each other skills to get out of the hole they are in. And then the parents are surprised that their adult son in his late 20's or 30's is still not married.
I grew up homeschooled. I spent the first 18 years of my life basically locked in a house. I didn't really have friends. I only got to see people around my age (aside from my siblings) a handful of times a year.
Good fucking lord, has that been a social pit to climb out of. I still don't know how to make friends.
Weirdly enough, I've never had much trouble dating. But goddamn, platonic relationships are so fucking elusive.
The reason why channers shouldn't be allowed to partake in society, as a single image.
The reason why channers shouldn't be allowed to partake in society, as a single image.
Why? Just because you enjoy kicking people when theyâre down? To punish someone for never having gained any experience because no-one ever took a chance on them?
At least this channer is fully aware of his problem. And he never rejected experience -- those that could have given it to him rejected him due to his lack of it.
You cannot peacefully and ethically acquire what others refuse to provide to you. That goes equally as much for experience with intergender emotional connections as it does for intergender physical intimacy.
At worst he is to be pitied, because most women who are age-appropriate for him will be revolted by his inexperience; his only current utility to most women at this point will be as an ATM and/or surrogate father to children who are not genetically his. His only statistically significant chance for true happiness is to become intrinsically motivated and go his own way.
Mf, just get some bitches đ
