Putin Unleashes Record Bombing in Ukraine as the World Watches Gaza

Imagine if Ukraine had the iron dome America bought Israel.

I know your heart is in the right place but ID barely covers a city and operating costs are extremely high. Right now the missiles that the ID system uses cost something around $1,000,000 each so defending just this latest bombing run would have been $90,000,000 USD.

No one could afford to operate the system even if it could be built.

Israel doesn't actually need American money, unfortunately. Sure, it helps them, but they can continue this campaign for a long time without a dollar from the U.S. Ukraine, on the other hand, is a much more desperate situation. I'm not saying that means we shouldn't shift funds from Israel to Ukraine, because I agree we should do that, but it will likely not help Palestinians much.

So you want Israel to be bombed even more and everyone there killed? Because that's the plan of Palestine and Lebanon (which is genocide btw). And would happen if they didn't have the iron dome.

Israel is defending itself as well. They just have a better counter attack success rate. Or did we forget that Ukraine also wants to bomb Moscow etc. (and has launched drones etc).

The key difference is one is a gov one is a terror org who represents their gov.

Imagine all the dead Jews that would cause too.

Palestine isn’t a nation of saints.

There is a lot of misinformation in your comment.

The United States didn't fund Israel's iron dome system.

There isn't a genocide (race / tribe killing) in Gaza. That's a population transfer or eviction of lands.

Ukraine and the United States are working together to implement a air defense system. A likely defense treaty and a 100 year lease on military bases in exchange for infrastructure rebuilding is on the table.

Guy must have a copy of 7 Effective Habits.

Yes, you prefer your James Bond chessmater plan than facts.

And Russia has been purchasing large amounts of Iranian munitions. It's not that far fetched for Russia to simply throw some money at Iran to throw a bit less money at Hamas to start some shit

Putin would have steamrolled Ukraine quickly if Trump had been reelected. There's a reason Russian troops massed on the Ukraine border right at the election. Putin couldn't back down when Trump lost, and lose face.

Presumably he knew there was more than an outside chance the war took over a year. And it could easily have been assisted by Russia while already in the works.

We let Hitler take shit and it didn't end well, the repurcussions of that are at war today.

Russia wants to keep unobstructed access to the Black Sea, for its freight and military ships.

The EU and China want to keep a railroad from China to the EU, through Kazakhstan and Ukraine or Belarus, to cut in half the time freight ships take.

Both need control over the same piece(s) of land.

For reference:

• Unified Deep Water System of European Russia
• Dec 10, 2014 - First direct China-Madrid freight train arrives after epic 13,000km journey

How is trump remotely relevant to Putin?

is this 'the west' in the room with us

does he have a blog perhaps, id love to read his takes

The UN's role is to prevent conflict between major powers, not stop all war period. It has done an exemplary job at that, better than any organization in history. There have been no wars between major world powers in the past 75 years. Prior to that, all empires were constantly at each other's throats.

You don't understand what the UN is. It's a common misconception.

The purpose of the UN is to have a diplomatic environment where all can be heard in front of all others. It's to encourage diplomatic solutions to problems and to defuse conflicts.

The UN doesn't have any way to do anything, it's merely a fancy forum. Its members could meet at the UN and decide to do something (although it can be legally complicated) but that's not on the UN.

Mr. Krabs? What are you doing on Lemmy?

Money money money. Almost like money makes the world go 'round.

Ye, me too brother. People think 🤔 Russia is like easily changeable or something... I think people forget just how many Russians and other people Russians have killed and imprisoned since Russia began so to say. I think people don't understand that Russia never had a democracy... Ever. I don't think people get that it's not easy to live and survive in Russia no matter when and where...

Also it's as if people pretend not to know that if You protest 🪧 anything in Russia; you're fucked.

People also don't know that the policemen rape people / men in prison. They torture You and rape you. At anytime You can be put in an MMA style fight against an opponent who will brutalize You before You die of the physical injuries.

I don't think people understand that if the world doesn't help to establish a democracy in Russia that Russia will always ; always go back to its corrupt ways.

I don't think people understand that there are also Russians who've been totally brainwashed just the same way that people got / get brainwashed in states like China, north Korea and Nazi Germany ( in the passed ) , imperial Japan etc.

I don't think people get that its not easy to be the hero a martar or organize a rebellion when you're under a violent regime and when all you have is your small family or none at all

Seems pretty simple, get tank, stand on tank with paper, scream loudly and voila we are done. Also, radiation salad works well.

We were all wondering how Trump made it out alive tbh

The French managed it. The Haitians. Even the Libyans. I know it's easier said than done, but quitters never win, do they?

Genocide Joe? 🙄

And who should voters replace him with, Mr Answers?

Israel managed to get rid of Netenyahu for a year or two but then he regained power.

Its different because America and Israel are democracies. Therefore, they can kill as many people as they want and its okay actually.

Putin is an evil dictator leading a rogue state (That's on the verge of collapse! Any day now!) And suggesting he is in any way like an Israeli or an American flags you as a Chinese Robot Antifa Fifth Columnist Hamas Affiliated Trump Supporter.

The planes aren't what's taking time. The F-16s are either being used for training, which is totally unnecessary as that training takes place in the US, and we have a few hundred of the things pretty much just sitting around, or are on standby to be deployed. The training of the pilots is what's taking time. I suspect Putin knows he's about to lose air superiority, and this attack is a demonstration of that. He's using what little weapons he has left, while he still can.

Yeah calling 90 bombs 'record' is a deep, almost orange hue of piss yellow journalism

Theyre both violating the Geneva Convention...

There's no valid reason to violate that, that's the whole point of it.

Lemmy is just weirdly pro-Hamas and anti-Israel.

Don't get me wrong, I think what Israel is doing sucks, but what Hamas is doing is equally bad. This is really a both-sides situation.

You left out the part where Israel has been murdering Palestinians and stealing their land for decades, and turned Gaza into an open air prison. That kind of thing pisses people off.

That still doesn't make any of this right.

There is a difference between invading and turning Gaza into a concentration camp.

You'd think the Jews would know better.

Israel brought the terror on themselves. They are literally committing genocide.

Also, Russia is fighting to maintain it's black sea port, which NATO interfered with. That territory has always been Russian, and only US propaganda claims otherwise. Want proof? Go look at the board games Diplomacy and Axis and Allies, based on WW1/2 respectively. Both show Crimea as Russia. Or just look at Wikipedia, for this and other easily verifiable facts.

Nobody forces you to read those.

It's absolutelly fine to stick to simple bite-sized ideas that simplify everything to black and white for those for whom complex views are too much to digest as is absolutelly fine for others to prepare full meals for those who can and want to feed their brains with more than just fizzy drinks and candy.

However if scrolling down a little bit to go over that text causes you movement sickness as you illustrated, I do apologize and promise to give the appropriate level of consideration for people suffering from such a disability.

Yeah but you see, he can't, because NATO made him do it. NATO is weak and decadent by the way, but simultaneously strong enough to force Nice Guy Putin into doing things he wouldn't have done otherwise.

What I really mean to say is, the West is responsible for these bombings (I am very intelligent).

But why have the US and West not been able to kick him out? Isn't Russia a gas-station? Isn't Putin weak? Isn't the Russian army weak? Isn't "the whole world" agaist Putin? Isn't UA winning all the time, at any given time?

How would then Putin defeat US and EU?

The difference between Putin and Israel is... that Putin "rescued", relocated, and gave a bunch of children to surrogate families, before bombing their parents.

I mean... that's "technically" less inhumane, or something?

Putin has killed fewer civilians in Ukraine in 2.5 years than Netanyahu has in Gaza in 30 days. Israel has shown that there are no costs for him to escalate dramatically as it's clear the world won't do anything.

Putin is a master of your mind - he makes you think of him all the time.

It's more like a competition where the bystanders lose

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-saudi-defence-pact-tied-israel-deal-palestinian-demands-put-aside-2023-09-29/

Sept 29 (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia is determined to secure a military pact requiring the United States to defend the kingdom in return for opening ties with Israel and will not hold up a deal even if Israel does not offer major concessions to Palestinians in their bid for statehood, three regional sources familiar with the talks said.

A pact might fall short of the cast-iron, NATO-style defence guarantees the kingdom initially sought when the issue was first discussed between Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and Joe Biden during the U.S. president's visit to Saudi Arabia in July 2022.

Instead, a U.S. source said it could look like treaties Washington has with Asian states or, if that would not win U.S. Congress approval, it could be similar to a U.S. agreement with Bahrain, where the U.S. Navy Fifth Fleet is based. Such an agreement would not need congressional backing.

Washington could also sweeten any deal by designating Saudi Arabia a Major Non-NATO Ally, a status already given to Israel, the U.S. source said.

But all the sources said Saudi Arabia would not settle for less than binding assurances of U.S. protection if it faced attack, such as the Sept. 14, 2019 missile strikes on its oil sites that rattled world markets. Riyadh and Washington blamed Iran, the kingdom's regional rival, although Tehran denied having a role.

Agreements giving the world's biggest oil exporter U.S. protection in return for normalisation with Israel would reshape the Middle East by bringing together two longtime foes and binding Riyadh to Washington after China's inroads in the region. For Biden, it would be a diplomatic victory to vaunt before the 2024 U.S. election.

The Palestinians could get some Israeli restrictions eased but such moves would fall short of their aspirations for a state. As with other Arab-Israeli deals forged over the decades, the Palestinian core demand for statehood would take a back seat, the three regional sources familiar with the talks said.

"The normalisation will be between Israel and Saudi Arabia. If the Palestinians oppose it the kingdom will continue in its path," said one of the regional sources. "Saudi Arabia supports a peace plan for the Palestinians, but this time it wanted something for Saudi Arabia, not just for the Palestinians."

The Saudi government did not respond to emailed questions about this article.

'LESS THAN A FULL TREATY'

A U.S. official, who like others declined to be named because of the sensitivity of the matter, said the parameters of a defence pact were still being worked out, adding that what was being discussed "would not be a treaty alliance or anything like that ... It would be a mutual defence understanding, less than a full treaty."

The official said it would be more like the U.S. relationship with Israel, which receives the most advanced U.S. weapons and holds joint air force and missile defence drills.

A source in Washington familiar with the discussions said MbS had asked for a NATO-style treaty but said Washington was reluctant to go as far as NATO's Article 5 commitment that an attack on one ally is considered an attack on all.

The source said Biden's aides could consider a pact patterned on those with Japan and other Asian allies, under which the U.S. pledges military support but is less explicit about whether U.S. troops would be deployed. However, the source said some U.S. lawmakers might resist such a pact.

Another template, which would not need congressional approval, would be the agreement signed with Bahrain on Sept. 13, in which the U.S. pledged to "deter and confront any external aggression" but also said the two governments would consult to determine what, if any, action would be taken.

The source in Washington said Saudi Arabia could be designated a Major Non-NATO Ally, a step which had long been considered. This status, which several Arab states such as Egypt have, comes with a range of benefits, such as training.

The second of the regional sources said Riyadh was compromising in some demands to help secure a deal, including over its plans for civilian nuclear technology. The source said Saudi Arabia was ready to sign Section 123 of the U.S. Atomic Energy Act, establishing a framework for U.S. peaceful nuclear cooperation, a move Riyadh previously refused to take.

The Gulf source said the kingdom was prepared to accept a pact that did not match a NATO Article 5 guarantee but said the U.S. had to commit to protecting Saudi Arabia if its territory was attacked. The source also said a deal could be similar to Bahrain's agreement but with extra commitments.

'LOTS OF WORK TO DO'

In response to emailed questions about details in this article, a U.S. State Department spokesperson said: "Many of the key elements of a pathway towards normalisation are now on the table and there is a broad understanding of those elements, which we will not discuss publicly."

"There's still lots of work to do, and we're working through it," the spokesperson added, saying there was not yet a formal framework and stakeholders were working on legal and other elements.

The spokesperson did not address specifics about the U.S.-Saudi defence pact in the response.

Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has hailed the possibility of a "historic" peace with Saudi Arabia, the heartland of Islam. But to secure the prize, Netanyahu has to win the approval of parties in his a far-right coalition which reject any concessions to the Palestinians.

MbS said in a Fox News interview this month that the kingdom was moving steadily closer to normalising ties with Israel. He spoke about the need for Israel to "ease the life of the Palestinians" but made no mention of Palestinian statehood.

Nevertheless, diplomats and the regional sources said MbS was insisting on some commitments from Israel to show he was not abandoning the Palestinians and that he was seeking to keep the door open to a two-state solution.

Those would include demanding Israel transfer some Israeli-controlled territory in the West Bank to the Palestinian Authority (PA), limit Jewish settlement activity and halt any steps to annex parts of the West Bank. Riyadh has also promised financial aid to the PA, the diplomats and sources said.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has said any bargain must recognise the Palestinian right to a state within the 1967 borders, including East Jerusalem, and must stop Israeli settlement building. However, all the sources said a Saudi-Israeli deal was unlikely to address those flashpoint issues.

Netanyahu has said Palestinians should not have a veto over any peacemaking deal.

Yet, even if the U.S, Israel and Saudi Arabia agree, winning support from lawmakers in the U.S. Congress remains a challenge.

Republicans and those in Biden's Democratic Party have previously denounced Riyadh for its military intervention in Yemen, its moves to prop up oil prices and its role in the 2018 killing of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, who worked for the Washington Post. MbS denied ordering the killing.

"What's important for Saudi Arabia is for Biden to have the pact approved by Congress," the first regional source said, pointing to concessions Riyadh was making to secure a deal.

For Biden, a deal that builds a U.S.-Israeli-Saudi axis could put a brake on China's diplomatic inroads after Beijing brokered a rapprochement between Saudi Arabia and Iran, which Washington accuses of seeking nuclear arms. Tehran denies this.

"There was a sense that the U.S. has abandoned the region," said one diplomat. "By courting China, the Saudis wanted to create some anxiety that will make the U.S. re-engage. It has worked."

Reporting by Samia Nakhoul in Dubai, James Mackenzie, Dan Williams and Ali Sawafta in Jerusalmen, Aziz El Yaacouby in Riyadh, Steve Holland, Matt Spetalnick, Humeyra Pamuk and Patricia Zengerle in Washington; Writing by Samia Nakhoul; Editing by Edmund Blair

He's probably living in a fantasy world.