Apple's called Android a "massive tracking device" in an internal presentation

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And that's just the last three years!
Juan, YOU are the man! 💪

Plus people forget that if they use iCloud Apple can also see all your data in the same way Google can if you use a Google account
- They can see your encrypted data. What’s the issue with that?
- Not exactly true. If you enable "Advanced Data Protection" not even apple can look at your data (with the exception of data which has to be interoperable like calendars and mail)
  
  https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303

Apple is 100% correct. It's the entire reason Android exists.

Then again, Apple also does a fair bit of data collection. I hate that Apple has been able to market themselves as some kind of bastion of privacy. They aren't.

Apple is 100% correct. It’s the entire reason Android exists.

Then again, Apple also does a fair bit of data collection. I hate that Apple has been able to market themselves as some kind of bastion of privacy. They aren’t.

So Apple is not 100% correct. They are 50% correct because the second half of their claim is that Apple is somehow different and not tracking its users...
- When the pot calls the kettle black, it is technically correct.
Actually, the reason Android exists isn't so one-dimensional.

The company Android was initially concerned more with Microsoft dominating phones like they did computers at the time, before being bought by Google

They created two prototype chains initially, one touch, one that was more akin to BlackBerry

iPhone came out, they ditched the BlackBerry-esque one and focused on what became now Android

Google was mostly just doing what all tech companies were doing at the time, trying to compete in a mobile arms race for dominance. The data tracking was just a bonus. Appeasing shareholders is paramount. Look at how Apple created an Alexa speaker just because they had to as another example of this type of behavior.

Also, Apple actually has a long history of tracking user behavior that predates both Android and the iPhone.

Apple apps since some time shortly after the inception of OS X would (and likely still do) phone home to configuration.apple.com to send apple metrics on usage. Earlier variations of LittleSnitch could actually block this collection behavior.

Apple has since reconfigured the network stack to guarantee that direct encrypted connections to Apple are always possible above any VPN, or other type of network filter connection. So there's no way to prevent communication with Apple on an Apple product at all now short of keeping it off the Internet or blocking DNS to 17.* IP addresses, which would only work on a network one has control over.
I believe the reason Google acquired Android was to make sure that Apple didn't dominate the mobile device landscape, which would be a threat to their ad business. The data collection was just a nice side-effect, from their perspective.
- I think you underestimate how early Google acquired Android. In 2005, Apple wasn't even in the mobile device market. Nokia were the dominant handset in those days.
All cell phones are tracking devices. Unless you faraday cage them. But yes, both apple and Android phones give out way more information than just that. And I definitely would not say that I would trust Apple more with data that I would Google.
Genuine question: in what ways do Apple track iOS users (that cannot be turned off)?

I’m of the viewpoint that most tracking can be rather easily be turned off, and that android plays in a totally other ballpark here. But I might very well be wrong.
- They both track you fairly closely. There are no winners if you are primarily concerned about privacy. Google is simply more open about it, and provides more access to that data to you (like timeline and takeout).
- A list from elsewhere in the thread: https://lemdro.id/comment/3314038

Yeah yeah, wake me up when you can unlock the bootloader on apple phones.

Yup, the logic people use to call Apple phones secure would put Fisher Price toy phones at the S-Tier of security.

Is Apple trying to convince me that the Health app, Apple maps or Siri doesn't track me?

Is Apple trying to convince me that the Health app, Apple maps or Siri doesn’t track me?

No, they are trying to convince themselves. It's an internal brainwashing presentation after all, not for external PR.
Their slide seems to list Siri, Maps, and iAd not being tied to the user's Apple ID as a pro. I didn't realize this was the case.
- Apple has very explicitly stated in very clear terms that the health app does not share data with other apps or devices unless you give permission. And as someone who has given that permission (twice, once to give a meal tracker write permission and once to link to my doctors office’s application for read and write) it’s for every application. It’s not a “hey you need to let everyone have access or no one”. You can get fairly granular.
  
  There’s always the possibility of lying but usually when a company goes that hard on saying the same thing is so many different ways it’s legit. They don’t commit like that unless they know they won’t get in trouble. Those kinds of statements could open them to false advertising claims if it got out they were taking your health data.
  
  Here’s a link to their privacy document which reviewed a good bit of info: https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/Health_Privacy_White_Paper_May_2023.pdf
Health app has encrypted data that doesn’t go to Apple without explicit permission
- Huh I wonder how is that different from Samsung Health or Google Fit.
Google doesn't make money off of those so its OK.

One damn iPhone in my home network makes most calls home out of anything in my home network. I cn see it in AdGuard Home log.

I also can see this on router with Gargoyle firmware

Yeah, but Android doesn't make me constantly enter my password to do basic things. Also, Apple takes away a lot of control from their consumers.

I'll take the phone that isn't dumbed down tyvm

Ideally you shouldn't have to compromise. GrapheneOS without Google is an option.
- It literally isn't - Graphene only supports Google Pixel phones.
- Or literally and other custom ROM based on aosc or lineage os
- GrapheneOS still takes away a bit of control though. Mainly in that it's locked down for privacy in some ways that you can't disable

Pot, meet kettle

Lol. Best comment.

Oh irony, thy name is Apple.

Google, the famous advertising company is using its hardware,software and infrastructure to watch everything we are doing?

I'm shocked.

Apple, ruthlessly opposing standards any time it can make them a buck no matter how many people have to suffer the consequences.

I'm shocked.
- Apple got shit on when they went all in on USB on the Mac. People complained they couldn’t use their mice and keyboards anymore.
  
  They shit on FireWire and thunderbolt and called them proprietary, even those were both industry standard ports. Same for DisplayPort.
  
  They switched to USB-C exclusively and then people complained that they had to buy dongles.
  
  In the modern era, they have had maybe 3 or 4 proprietary ports.
  
  It doesn’t seem so ruthless to me.
The funny part is its coming from Apple

"only when it provides a better customer service" Hahaha. That's so vague that it is completely meaningless.

They are not wrong

They are not wrong

The best lies have a bit of truth in them, by making a factual statement and then deliberately coming to a wrong conclusion. They are wrong when the second half of the claim is that Apple is somehow any different. There is tracking and analytics everywhere in Apple systems. They don't need to formally tie the Apple ID to other tracking methods when they can just use other means to find out that two connections come from the same device.

At least in the Android world there at least is the option to go fully free of Google Services. There is no iOS Open Source Project that includes everything but a few things.
- You're making huge assumptions based on a single slide that doesn't state it's own conclusion. To me this easily is showing that Apple limits how data is used compared to Google, it doesn't try to show that Apple doesn't track you.

They're not wrong. Its just they aren't the perfect solution

I don't think they want to be. I just think they want to fragment Android. I agree with them.
- The fall of android would be the fall of the only reliable open os for phones. I'm not seeing many custom roms for privacy based on iOS.

Don't forget our vehicles are also tracking us. Soon our Ai trainers will have enough data to guide us in their path and we'll love what they tell us we should do.

My vehicle does not track me. I will take my old car to my grave
One more advantage of the used cars I buy: the cell network they can connect to doesn't exist anymore (the radios don't exist, the company itself exists, but they have upgraded towers to not support older cell connections).
Not mine the fuse to my modem has the leg cut off. It’s a triple leg fuse.

Yes, but if you put graphene on a pixel it's miles beyond an iphone

Congratulations to you and the other 0.000000001% of Android users then.
- I would like to think that the percentage of users who have grapheneOS is maybe 5% of the pixel population. I'm just pulling a number out of my ass right now but basically a lot of people who want the very best privacy and security go for graphene which is limited to only Pixels even though there are more cool phones like the fp5.

Lol at DoJ just releasing it, thanks I suppose.

Lol at Apple trying to wiggle its way into everything trying to fool people that they are privacy champs and everyone else using Android is a chump. I have no doubt in my mind that Apple has terabytes of data on every user. And Google maps can be used without signing in, making their argument a moot point

It is worth remembering incentives though. Apple is primarily a hardware company. Most of their revenue comes from iPhones. Google is primarily an ad company that makes money selling ads, and your data.

This obviously doesn't make Apple a privacy champion , but it should be considered. Apple is at least theoretically in a position to push for the privacy of their users, while Google is not.
- Apple is also trying to expand is advertising division. It might be nessecary to force companies like this to split but I doubt we will ever get such regulation.
- Apple also makes a fair bit of money from its software services such as the Apple subscriptions, which are massive wells of data. I do not find it strange that they care about harvesting data from their users. Every company who offers software services does the same thing.
- Apple is a huge software company, what are you talking about lol
- Google doesn’t sell shit. They sell and target ads. If they sold your data why would people come to them to purchase ads? What advantage would they have?

Clearly this was before Apple became one of the largest advertising companies.

was this old (the google logo is the old one so i'm not sure) or was apple just uninformed?

you can have all sorts of multiple accounts in the control panel, mail and calendar all have on device log ons, you can update apps outside of the app store or use the google play store with your google account the same way you do with your apple account.

Five words into the article says

Apple’s internal presentation from 2013

Literally at the top under TL;DR
Given how they operate internally at the engineering level, probably just Apple being uninformed. The internal culture is total brainwash. Apple tech is the only tech. It is partly why they genuinely think they created technologies. They never stick their head out of the fruit to see what the world around them has, and they have a habit of buy, cheat, or steal to ensure their monopoly continues.

Maybe an interesting sociological experiment? How technology evolves in a cult versus outside the cult back in the real world?