I went to a major medical university and studied humanities. The amount of soon-to-be doctors and nurses complaining about why they needed to study things like ethics, philosophy, or history astounded me, it's like these people didn't want to deal with the human aspect of medicine and instead just wanted to make money.
I wouldn't be shocked if more medschool students dropped out from the humanities courses than the medical ones, they hated it
I didn't hate them, but it's tough when every professor assigns homework like they're the only class you're taking.
Not meaning to imply they should be dropped, but looking at the state of the world most people aren't internalizing anything from the humanities.
I had a professor that said a good student will study Monday to Saturday the amount of hours a day as the amount of credits you take. Take Sundays off. We all had 15 credits a semester.
I was interested in the humanities, so I interacted with that material very deeply. I would say that most of my classmates weren't interested in humanities, but they weren't really interested (as in curious, questioning, interacting) with the STEM classes either.
Did any of those courses succeed in teaching empathy, sociality, ethic? If it's similar to what I experienced in my university, it didn't do jack shit. University is great at teaching scientific knowledge but horrible at teaching philosophy. I learn more about ethics, philosophy and history via YouTube than from university
Students have an obligation to respond and receive the materials. If you chose not to engage with the classes, then that's on you, but it's generally a good thing for doctors and people working with the public to have an education on things like empathy and history (specifically the history of discrimination against marginalized groups).
I learn more about ethics, philosophy, and history via YouTube than from university
Oh, you're one of those people.
It's funny because doctors make like nothing compared to finance bros.
Noticed the same when I studied computer science. My fellow students complained about having to study the history of computers, ethics, social studies and especially ex.phil. "I just want to program all day, not study things I will never use!'
I switched bachelor programmes after a couple of years
Was this in 'murica?
*Laughs in big pharma*Unsolicited petulance like this is why, instead of being empathetic about a situation we both share, I will never not laugh myself to tears as I watch the NHS deal with its massive backlog by killing brits via slowly privatizing.
You're like the weird kid on the playground, pulling our hair because you have a crush on us
You even have to study the history of film if you’re in filmmaking school.
I had more fun studying the required courses than CS at my university. I read TAoCP for fun in high school I could sleep through most classes. If I could do it again, I'd do geology as my profession.
So it's working as intended then?
There was any soon-to-be psychologist or psychiatrist among those students? And, if so, how did they reacted? 👀
I once had a chemistry professor who used to work as a senior drug researcher at a major pharmaceutical company. He often joked about how the company treated the monkeys used for testing far better than the PhDs. If a monkey suffered a negative reaction there was a major investigation. I'm incredibly surprised Musk can be killing monkeys left and right and hasn't been thrown in jail.
Here is a cnn article about it.
Elon wasn’t really involved with it. A university was.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/02/17/business/elon-musk-neuralink-animal-cruelty-intl-scli/index.html
You mean someone went onto the internet just to tell lies? on purpose?!
The difference is that guy was working at a major pharmaceutical research firm with animal advocates and whistle-blowers and accrediting board all over them. Musk's group is new and is still in the fucking around phase. As soon as they have to answer to any outside org, suddenly this will be a huge liability.
We're still in the 'move fast, kill monkeys' phase.
So agile. Much lean.
He could probably shoot somebody dead in Times Square and nothing would happen to him....
But could he grab them by the... nevermind, if he can buy a horse, he can do anything.
The other 8 died, too. In excruciating pain. One of them vomited to death. These people are barbaric and should face animal cruelty charges.
You are confusing taking a class with actually having ethics. No amount of attending a lecture about ethics will convince you if you do not, as a basic premise agree with the ethical principle that loss of life is a bad thing. And to be very clear, ethical principles are subjective. There is no objectively right or wrong thing as far nature is concerned.
Ethics class gives you tools to analyze a problem. Any good class is part of the philosophy department and leans on the classic philosphers approaches to analyze the problem. Many engineers would have no exposure to this otherwise and i think its a good part of any Universities' engineering curriculum.
Classes don't solve the problem entirely, but they're a start and without them in this case a company so large and powerful that it has a space program and foreign policy planks is being guided by nothing but the intuition of someone who grew up spending money earned by child slaves and who thinks that scuttling an army's mission in-progress is pacifism
Business/economics and politics students also need classes in ethics.
Yes, but they cant win capitalism if they apply those lessons though.
Eveyone needs it. Aristotle starts out his Nicomachean ethics stating that virtuous acts are first and foremost for the benefit of the virtuous person.
Platonic ethics should also really be taught widely, even more so than Aristotle's because they're easier to receive. Even if he has some hard to accept views such as that commiting injustice is worse than suffering it, everyone would benefit if children grew up with the notion that everyone does what they think best, and that those who do "wrong" things do so out of ignorance of what is good, rather than what we currently have where everyone knows what is objectively good, and those who don't do it are willfully wrongdoers and you just need to punish them enough and they'll become good.
Although you can have the best educational plans in the galaxy if the educarional system is crap. I don't know about the rest of the world, but where I'm from all education from primary school to a master's degree is just a bunch of information being thrown at you with 0 context and reasoning behind it, and when you're able to reproduce that information on demand (without any context): congratz, you're educated!
Should start in kindy, tbh.
Funny story, the only ethics required in my engineering degree was a 2-day unit on our professional code of ethics. We had a 20-question true/false homework on it, and the thing about a professional code of ethics is it's not super intuitive. Most of the class thought they could gut feel their way through it, but you actually had to read the code because the wording was very specific sometimes. When it turned out that everyone failed the homework, the professor let us try again.
Ethics!
Wow! Been a while since I've seen a Michael Crichton quote. I think I'll have to do a reread of Jurassic Park now.
No amount of ethics teaching will change the behaviour of a narcisistic psychopath like musk.
At least you get to take an ethics class. Mine was just about patents and Therac-25
I mean, we really don't want a repeat of the Therac-25
I only learned about it from the "Well There's Your Problem" podcast. Can't believe my school never talked about it. We did hear all about Challenger though as well as a few other disasters where the lesson was "If you cut corners, or take chances, people can DIE"
RIP to the monkeys. They deserved better.
I had to take 3 ethics classes for my cybersecurity degree
This startrek.website site loads like 15% of the time for me. It's really annoying.
It's been a bit laggy and inconsistent since the instance switched hosts last week. I wonder if that's still it...
How do I upload this bin file to my neuralink firmware ? DD?
I used to think like that but looking back those classes were pretty fun
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
Philosophy should be taught from very early. The hability to think, argue, relate to others and understand others while being capable of express your ideas is extremely important.
I personally enjoy ethics as a subject, but has it been shown that studying ethics in uni actually leads to people behaving more ethically? I agree that ethics should be applied to science, but science should also be applied to ethics to determine the effective approach.
And there are actual real life goobers dying to get one themselves.
It's so incredibly ironic that these are probably the same goobers who talk about microchips in vaccines.
I really want a neural pointing device, but not by this dork.
I mean, I'd get it if there was an estimation on just how fast it would kill me.
And how painless.
I absolutely would. I'd not line up to be among the first, but controlling devices via a brain interface is an inevitable step of technological evolution.
It will provide such an immense performance boost, that many professions may become unattainable without having one. Possibly within our lifetime.
My law/ethics prof was a big old NIMBY. Apparently, utilitarianism is when "neighbor allows cell tower in his yard and it block my view"
Stop animal testing
Yea stopping animal testing sounds great, but animal testing is the backbone of drug and medical breakthroughs. So at least for now that's not possible
What's the alternative?
Recognition that animal testing is actually pretty fucked up would be a good start toward funding research into alternatives, such as biological computer simulations.
We can simulate complex/chaotic systems, like weather, in nearly real-time, so biosim research is mainly a funding and staffing problem at this point.
Probably we'll still need animal testing for the final phase before human trials, but we can at least reduce the need for it to bare minimums.
Would you like them to test on you instead?
Cool, where should we test all the pet food and medical treatments for animals then?
And he wanted to put those in humans?!?
Correction.. still does
Oh, I thought it was a meme similar to the old "Bush or chimp"-days, back when dubya was president, and was thinking: "surely they could have found a monkey that looked more like Elmo" but that's not the point of these pictures, it seems 😕
Because then you’ll be able to dismiss the ethics while being aware of the implications of your research.
Disregarding the ethics while not knowing them grants you no extra points, whilst deliberately ignoring the ethical ramifications but understanding them gets you all the points
This isn't unethical. This is why you use animals.
Oh man, there's gonna be a lot of angry vegans here soon. Godspeed, sir or madam.
