That whole video, and the follow-up, were incredible. I used to trust LTT quite a bit, but after the video, I've just chunks of respect for LTT. Dunno if i can ever trust them.
Edit:
I work in the tech industry. I work for an A tier company that makes servers, storage and more. I cannot imagine fucking up a benchmark/performance characterisation chart THIS badly even for an internal presentation.
I have spent hours double checking and re-running tests to ensure I'm getting the right numbers.
And to see a channel as big as LTT goofing up numbers so badly, which have the potential to affect thousands of purchasing decisions, i can't even.
We also work with vendors, who sometimes send hardware prototypes. And we can never be THIS unprofessional to them.
I will say this, and some may consider this my hot take; I feel like Linus needs to step back from responding to community feedback as well. I get that it's his company and he probably feels responsibility to respond, but he does not respond well to criticism. The biggest tell on how his employees feel was Luke's face during the video. It was obvious even without him saying anything that he knew the hot take response was not going to turn out well. These situations are part of being a CEO not an owner and Linus needs to show that he trusts the new CEO enough to respond accordingly. Linus continues to handle this problem in the exact wrong manner when he shouldn't be handling it at all m
Feels like the ADHD (and maybe autism) play a good part in that.
My personal reviews from the school days were often like that: Not responding well to criticism.Many assumptions, many ways but only a few will get it all back on track to being a trustworthy source.
And like you said: Linus needs to step back from being community feedback (lwt that the community manager handle) and let WAN show be a primarily tech talk focused live show with a community Q/A. Maybe let the CEO be a regular (once every X weeks) so community can give him targeted questions and let the other weeks be about the company/Linus/Luke/Dan and just a normal Q and A without the business talk.
I'm somewhat conflicted on the entire matter. I felt like their quality was slipping for some time and it's been difficult to watch them.
Linus has handled almost every community crisis extremely poorly because when under pressure he gets defensive and speaks without thinking often pouring gasoline on the fire.
At the same time I can understand his motivations as the livelihoods of his now very large number of employees depends on it.
I think if LTT had responded officially and earnestly to the criticism addressing and laying out of roadmap for remediation it would have bought a lot of goodwill. I think Linus needs to be removed from LTT public relations but I don't think that will ever happen.
Truly a sad day, glad we have GN
Edit: I wish I could understand what I said that was down vote worthy
He kinda responded to it in a forum post. One paragraph about "improving processes and communication".
The rest was him doubling down on everything.
He literally said that they auctioned the billet block and didn't sell it. Like.. what?! Are we playing semantics here?
And he again emphasised that they didn't want to "waste" the money to test the billet block properly, and he actually said that he didn't want anyone to buy the billet block. In these exact words.
LTT is like Fox News - it may come off as statistical analysis of technology but it's really just there for entertainment purposes. They may call themselves fair and balanced but they offer favorable reviews to sponsors.
I never really trusted them. They were the wacky tech entertainment channel, which was fun! But their actual benchmarking has always been a mess unfortunately.
Same. Has LTT responded yet?
Linus made a post on LTTForums, but LMG/LTT, as a company, has yet to respond.
Update: Video up on LTT channel.
Am I the only one who thinks this is a little overblown? After reading all these comments I finally got around to watching the video and was honestly pretty underwhelmed and found the GN guy a little over dramatic in his framing and language of the issue.
I'm not claiming he's doing this whole thing for attention or clout. But yeah, not seeing anything world shaking or enough to change my views on much of anything.
I think the points Steve highlighted were pretty spot on. Over the past few years I've continually felt an "off" vibe from LTTs videos and now I know what it is, it's the constant corrections and edits on the content. I have to actually actively watch every second to keep an eye out for corrections and it's just not something that should be happening if they were taking their time creating content.
GN dude literally just stated facts, with the evidence.
And that too after an lmg video called them out by name. The original video literally had the guy saying that lmg was better than others like GN or hardware unboxed.
They didn't have to do it. Especially when there are multiple points of data pointing to their glaring inaccuracies.
It depends if you spend money on the information LMG provide, or in the case of billet, use them to get an honest review.
Is Gamers Nexus finally getting the respect they deserve?
Everyone respects Steve and his team.
They also fall asleep during his videos.
GN has always had respect. Linus has even directed people to GN on multiple occasions. Steve from GN was invited to Linuses roast and I thought they did some stuff together (maybe one of the scrapyard wars?)
I guess my point is: there has been mutual respect from both of these guys for each other. Which makes the fact that Steve didn't give Linus a chance to comment/add some context to GN's video pretty shitty.
No he doesn't "have" to reach out, but it seems really odd that they didn't given their working relationship to date (even if it's just two business men in the same field that knows each other).
You don't do a call out video without a heads-up...unless you 1. Are trying to do a hit piece 2. You think he will provide enough context to change your mind and you'll have to scrap your video or 3. You are worried he'll scoop you or have too good of a response
Its worth noting GN probably sees LTT labs as an existential threat once they get going.
It doesn't mean their concerns are valid now, but this isn't some completely altruistic "think of the consumer" situation.
Have you seen Linus's response? He played victim, ignored parts of the criticism and apparently straight up lied about the proceedings with that cooler startup.
Also this video was the result of many incidents and it seems like they never even got over the "trust me bro" thing. I honestly don't understand why, because that was a way less spicy video on GNs side.
It's our job to ignore relationships
They handled LTT the same way they would, and did in the past, any other company. If you think it's bad that they don't do favouritism, then there's something seriously messed up about your moral compass.
Man, scrapyard wars is not a set of words I've heard mentioned in a while. I have such fondness for old LTT stuff but stopped watching years ago as they started growing and pushing out more and more videos. I guess that's why scrapyard wars also got rushed / dropped by the end. Doing it right just takes more time so it isn't profitable in their business model. What a useless channel this has become.
Too large, corporate burdens. Ltt needs to slow down. Quantity over quality not cool.
"We may be pumping out trash, but at least the trash pumps are running strong with huge throughput. We're ℙℝ𝕆𝔻𝕌ℂ𝕋𝕀𝕍𝔼!
Yes I think this was the main point that Steve kept coming back too. Moving too fast. And not focusing on accuracy and quality. LTT realistically has always been much more about entertainment. And I still watch them for that. Gamers Nexus Etc has always been where you go if you want the straight dry news and facts with as little opinion thrown in as possible.
Linus has a vision of what he wants to become. And I am there for it. There's undeniable possibility and niche for what they want to do. But it relies on being methodical, accurate, and focused. Several things they've been owning themselves on for a while. It can be fixed. But I think George Harrison put it best.
It's gonna take patience and time, mmm To do it, to do it, to do it, to do it, to do it To do it right
I honestly never got his channel. Does Linus actually have a tech/engineering background which makes him an authority on this stuff? Watching his videos leads me to believe that he doesn't. He gets basic shit wrong way too often.
Linus is both knowledgable and a good entertainer. The problem is he's grown from a casual reviewer to running a 100+ employee business, pumping out multiple videos a week with his face on it - He simply cannot possibly know anything about the product besides what's on the script.
When he is interested in something, it really shows. The way he talks about the LTT Screwdriver or the Framework laptop for example almost never even has a correction, let alone errors. Linus just has no ability to upscale that quality.
I think it's even more what GN has highlighted: They try to go from entertainment first to hard facts and data. It's very clear that they have not thought this through completely.
Yes, some of their testing solutions are very sophisticated, but there are definitely problems on the management side of things. This seems very much like a structural problem. Communications goes horribly wrong in multiple ways, including errors not being corrected properly. Errors appear very frequently and the employees themselves question the quality of their videos.
Linus himself claimed that he had to improvise a workshop for employees, because they lacked training for what they were supposed to do. Furthermore that he substantially changed things on the fly, on multiple occasions, because they were garbage from his POV.
All of this indicates bad management, but not learning from mistakes and making the exact same ones again and again proves it.
This is horseshit, no offense; Linus straight up says he's not interested in doing it right as it's cost $1-500... Which is nothing to them.
He's a sales sleeze semi-technical media nerd that is at best a good entertainer.
He chooses not to enforce quality.
LTT is entertainment. Not news or credibly fact based.
Yeah, the channel was great many years ago. Basically the same time they moved to the warehouse building is when it went downhill, and fast. They started pumping out more lower quality videos, and it was nearly all covered in click bait. They also created the side channel where they tried to make funny content. That's when I unsubscribed. I don't know if that's all still the same, but they clearly got caught up in trying to expand and following youtube trends that they forgot what they were good at.
He's does not have a technical background and he's said as much, gaming and computers are just a passion for him.
He's an entertainer, not an authority. But he speaks so passionately it's easy for a non-technical person to believe he's an authority.
Linus himself has no engineering background, but his team has many engineers. They do not make mistakes for lack of knowledge. What they need is more quality control over their videos
Linus used to work for a computer store^[1], and has 15+ years experience doing this sort of stuff. I would say he's more knowledgable than most
LTT is just an infomercial
Correct, answer. It's also a platform for Linus to stroke his ego.
He doesn't. He's just being a computer technician for as long as he has worked.
It used to be an unboxing channel.
And before that, he was the NCIX guy that did all the videos for their site.
Watching his videos leads me to believe that he doesn’t.
Watching his videos leads me to believe that he does, the random knowledge drops he has about hardware and the deeper levels of the software stack convince me of that.
Even if he is parroting knowledge he's getting from his engineers, and I don't think he is, he still sounds very knowledgable. I think everyone's simply jumping on a hate bandwagon for the fun of it.
Yeah... Anyone who thinks Linus doesn't know much about computers is straight up wrong. He's not an engineer but he doesn't claim to be. Personally I don't watch LTT for the hard data...that's what NG is for. I also like Paul's Hardware for general product reviews.
But with all that said, I do kind of like that this is blowing up and especially so after reading LTT's response. Linus has done some questionable things and they always get swept under the rug....despite the arrogant responses he always gives. He deserves most the anger being directed at him because the Billet thing is the worst one yet
No he was basically a marketing guy
Gamers Nexus and Hardware Unboxed are the only channels I would watch for new PC part reviews. They don't hide or glance over any details for the sake of entertainment and your attention. If I'm spending $700+ on a product I want to know exactly what I'm getting, Not a quick rundown that skips over details that could be potential deal breakers. Glad to see them get the attention they deserve after all this controversy.
Just like you said. I only watch gn before purchases. They're so damn dry and boring I just skip it wholly and fully otherwise.
That's understandable. I find them genuinely entertaining, Especially their presentation coverage videos but their long-winded style isn't for everyone. I just prefer in-depth content.
Yeah their news videos has great content..
Its just... a bit boring to listen to
You gotta check out Digital Foundry for GPUs and Hardware Canucks for cases/accessories.
I watch Jayztwocents because the channel is not a specific this is good and bad.
I couldn't believe the story about the water block.
"we did what we did because no matter what the temps are, we thought it was so expensive that none of our viewers should come away from this video wanting to buy it"
Sounds like if they had no good faith intention of even testing the water block they should have done the morally correct thing and told billet they're not going to review it. But doing that when they've already looked at it would be a waste of content yeah and they want a return on every dollar and second spent.
I know right? Have they even met the sort of people who build computers? I could buy a sports car at my age, but decided to build a PC and save $20 instead.
He's built a $100,000 gaming desk in the past year, as if he couldn't see a market for an expensive cooler block.
For reviews sure, for entertainment? Sets me to sleep tbh
For me ltt is entertainment. I personally think they should pivot away from hardware reviews and do just do crazy projects, show cases of really ground breaking tech, and engineering type stuff like they have been. Hardware reviews kind of boring not the reason I watch ltt. It's really is like the topgrear of pc hardware imo.
I mean they invested a ton into lab equipment, it'd be silly not to use it. What needs to happen is a clear split between entertainment and data-focussed content with data getting the time they need to get things right and entertainment the budget they need to make things crazy. Noone particularly cares about data accuracy when you're strapping a 1m diametre industrial fan to a PC case or crawl through bramble bushes to run a network cable but once you get bar charts involved you better dot your 'i's. Content that is both, e.g. an entertaining product review, needs the budget of both.
Pretty much this, nothing on his knowledge in what he's saying, but listening to Steve talk at length is tedious. The Internet is doing its Internet thing when people get too big and make a mistake, but there's no way people are tuning into Gamer's Nexus for entertainment.
Anyone can make a mistake, mistakes can be a good way to learn provided the damage is not too severe. It is not making a mistake or two that is the issue, it is the egregious way he puts making money at a higher value than correcting that mistake. he has a drive to publish content knowing it has errors in it. He literally published a video that not only gave a review on a product fitted to the wrong part, but then went on to screw that company further by selling the prototype for click bait.
GN is not about entertainment; it is about getting good information on tech. Be a comedian as much as you like, but if your bread and butter is about giving a review, then at least make that review plausible. It is not a big ask.
Dan Besser at Techlinked seriously needs his own channel. For some reason he drones on but it’s…interesting??
After the sewer explosion at LMG today I truly felt Gamer Jesus is really coming forth as a messiah.
Tech Jesus for data. LTT for infotainment.
Lienus Theft Tips
*Jesus
Come back and save the world
🌎👨🚀🔫👨🚀
Always has been.
Dammit.
Tech nerd Jesus has arrived.
They both serve a purpose. GN is much more of a serious channel for data and numbers when you are researching a new purchase. LTT is far more entertaining though.
Think Linus should just stop pretending to do actual reviews and just focus on entertainment.
That's what I've been doing for the last several years, ignoring all of LTTs reviews and only watching their lab videos or info about new servers or screwing with his house where I'm curious about what happens and not the info being portrayed.
Well he seems to be going the opposite direction. The Lab is him trying to get very serious about reviewing hardware. And I applaud him if he succeeds. And this video doesnt prove that he hasnt succeededbecuase setting up a Lab is not a few weeks or even a few months worth of work. He will have way more capabilities and resources than any other YT channel that i know of and clearly way more than average users.
A few issues with the Lab might simply stem from Linus himself. He's now a nerdy rich kid. And as such he wants all the toys. Luckily for us is that the toys he wants are ones dealing tech and testing. He himself doesn't have the journalistic or scientific background to know what to get and how to get his results. I think he is focusing too much on hiring engineering and entertainers and writers, and needs to hire at least a few people with journalistic background. An engineer might know the equipment and how to do testing. A writer might be able to whip up an entertsining script, but a journalist is who you want when it comes to reporting on the findings in a fair and balanced manner.
I hate to see this turn into a feud. Both channels are useful. I rarely watch GN if I am not looking to making a purchase or when there is a big new product launch, but I appreciate that he puts his journalistic integrity above anything. I don't want him to water down his channel either, but he could use hiring more entertaining people because you can only take that deadpan delivery for so long.
Who is GN? Haven't seen them before.
Gamers Nexus. And they're a fantastic YouTube channel for hardware reviews, check them out.
https://youtube.com/@GamersNexus and they are talking about this video https://youtu.be/FGW3TPytTjc
I just watched steves response. It actually made me less 'on his side'. Sure you dont have to give him a heads up, but you have a personal relationship with the guy even if its just on a peer / youtube colleague level. He went to the roast for fucks sake. So you'e met the guy and were presumably friendly.
It's as pedantic to say "I didnt have to contact him first" as it is to say "we auctioned not sold!" It seems like really bad form and it almost seems in bad faith and makes his original, valid criticisms, feel like a hit piece.
this isn't nvidia or it's fucking Linus.
I also didn't get the impression that linus's ltt forum post was his official response/action plan. And for Steve to say "whatever they say or do now we wont believe them" seems incredibly immature and unprofessional.
Theyve grown too fast and Linus knows it. They've conceded as much and theyve taken steps to address it- hiring a senior manager for the lab and a new CEO. Those are pretty significant.
Steve's response video was a bit self-righteous and absolutely the behavior of a teenage PC gamer.
I think the way LTT tore into Billet Labs was the reason for the tear down. GN gave LTT as much respect as LTT gave to Billet Labs.
I agree with you to some degree, but I think Steve is also somewhat rightfully self-righteous. Linus shouldn't have responded to this at all, and certainly not this hasty.
One comment under GNs video pointed out that Linus himself said you can best judge a company by their response to criticism. Well, now the owner of a company, who is not CEO anymore, responded and made things way worse, whether they like it or not.
He not only ignored large parts of the criticism and didn't apologize for their plentiful mistakes, but fell into playing victim right away and apparently even lied. Although this might just be the result of the hasty and emotional response, this is still bad, because he's still in an important position at the company and that stuff fell under his time as leader.
The only correct way to respond to this further would be the new CEO stepping in, saying that Linus had no authority to answer and that his answer does not reflect the stance of LMG, before discussing the matter and providing a proper answer and reaction. Why? Because nothing else would truly show that Linus doesn't get to pick what's official anymore. And if Linus doesn't respect that he's not LMG, the CEO doesn't enforce a proper behavior by his employee and LMG doesn't find a proper response, what credibility do they even have left?
If they don't do something like this, Linus' response is the official one, because it's the one from the person with the highest authority in the company. And if that wasn't enough, everyone will think he installed a puppet CEO from then on.
I agree with most of GN's points, but this part really rubbed me the wrong way. I think GN really should have contacted Linus, to get his thoughts and clear up misunderstandings. When they do it like this it feels disingenuous, if you really care about the consumer then it's in your best interest to help LTT change, not to try and deal as hard a blow as possible. It feels like they're just want them to take the punch as hard as possible.
But I still can't believe how bad LTT's behaviour was when it comes to Billet labs. The rewiew was bad, but I could get over it, but to sell their best fucking prototype, that's atrocious. It's not just the material and time cost of building it, it's a giant opportunity cost. It's completely unacceptable.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills and I have the hottest take on the planet, but I really don't think this is as huge a scandal as everyone wants to make it, and Steve's motives / vibes are just really suspect in this whole thing.
what exactly is suspect about his motives?
We are talking about youtube where "Drama" is a major motivator and can easily be a way to increase your gain of subs/views. I don't disagree with many points of GN's report but I do find the opening a bit peculiar with the whole labs tour statement where Linus does say that was a pretty bad thing for that employee (I think Tim) to say. We just have to remember these kind of feedback loops aren't that uncommon to see. I have seen similar things with James Stephanie Sterling (Jimquisition) and other youtubers where ragebait/drama posts become a core part of channel and its just an endless war path. Like its no secret GN's highest rated videos are typically around these kind of topics (Exploding PSUs, Asus stuff, Artesian Builds, Newegg). We shouldn't blindly follow what gamer nexus has stated since its pretty clearly painted in a very specific light, this isn't to say disregard everything he said but we shouldn't act like he is merely a passive observer who is telling everything as it is. There is a clear motive for this kind of thing, right now its clear we are at the everyone has an axe to grind stage of this drama before things settle back down or this could be a full collapse. Who knows but right now I think discussion on this topic will clearly lean heavily on only one direction and any opposition to it will be seen as fanboying.
I think people are treating this with too much hype. It feels like I'm on Reddit. I know it's incredibly easy to react sensationally, and I don't blame anyone for doing so, but a little levelheadedness would have been better. More "Huh, there are issues" instead of "Holy crap Linus just got destroyed".
I agree, this all seems way overblown and Linus's reply was pretty level-headed. GN's video seems pretty overblown in that most of it are relatively small errors. And I believe Linus that the auction was a miscommunication in his 100+ employee company.
I fee like people are jumping on the hate bandwagon just because they love the drama, while also forgetting everyone involved are real people and shit just happens sometimes.
