Nah. The Lemmy.world mods will ban you for posting or commenting anything that isn’t in line with western propaganda. Fuck merging.
I agree and I think we should merge instances too, and maybe appoint a CEO to take care of it. we can call it lemmit.
I can be the CEO if I get 30 million euros a year.
Nah, I want more, smaller communities.
Just post only in one community. Not that hard.
Sure, but how do we react when people don't follow this and cross post anyway? Which one do we downvote?
I think it would be cool if something like "meta-communities" existed. Fully adjustable, fully optional. Less duplicates.
You'd sub to one meta c/memes or c/news and see a combined feed of all known instance's versions. Post to whichever you want, show up in the meta (if you want).
If you still want to block from the meta sub or individually sub to c/memes on ABC instance, you could do that. Moderation would be subject to the instance the user posted on, subject to broader instance admin's defederations and stuff.
Idk just a quick idea. Decentralization is good, but a little bit of... aggregation like this could go a long way without actually centralizing power. Could help communities (big and small niche) to grow.
Edit: shit idea, see Kichae's reply
So, think through how this looks in the long run. Hell, just think about what this prioritizes.
You have five communities covering the same topic. There's, what? 500? 1000? 2000 people active in them? Enough that there is a steady stream of posts and comments in all of them. They're all housed on separate websites, and those websites maybe have different goals and different rules. So, people start lumping them together in aggregate feeds.
What does that look like? In practice, how do users treat this?
They treat it as if they're all one community. As if they're all in one place. All managed by one cohesive set of rules (or, realistically, most people treat all spaces as if none of them have rules, and then put up a stink when they're met with the consequences of this).
Then, they start expecting to not see duplicates. So, which community's posts do they see when there are multiples? Oh, that's easy: all of them! They will start expecting comments to be merged. So, now you have people treating all of the communities not only as if they're interchangeable, but as if they're all one.
This is a backdoor to not just homogenization, but to quiet hostile takeovers of smaller communities by larger ones. All because users are too damn entitled to just pick one that most closely meets their needs and contribute to it.
We don't need meta-communities. We need people to get over their fucking FOMO.
Those are actually all really good points. Nevermind about my idea then...
I've been saying this over a year ago:
https://lemmy.world/comment/708523
This why lemmy and federation instances are so missing and empty. We don't even have the option to make custom subscription lists or I'd have manually done that. It's so badly needed
This is a fantastic idea. I really love the decentralization of Lemmy, but I do feel the side effects of having many copies of the same subject on different instances.
And to your point, I'd love for niche communities to have a larger audience. I need somewhere to post and read about project zomboid.
Sounds like a whole app idea.
Just chiming in to throw some light hearted shade at lemmy.world for defederating from the piracy communities. My time on lemmy.world was really poor, and I came away not thinking too highly of Lemmy as a whole. My experience in different instances has been a world of difference, and I finally get fantastic content in my feeds and am fully on board with Lemmy
Yep, their defederation from piracy comms and moderation of Luigi-related politics are my two biggest gripes with the instance administration itself.
Which instance are you using? I've been using world since start, but open to others. Never really looked into it too much.
I'm on lemm.ee! It seems to have a good balance of users and sensible defederation. On mobile, the app you use make a world of a difference too. Both Jerboa and Thunder (Android) were mid tier experiences, but now I'm using Boost and it's phenomenal!
Hexbear.net (currently chapo.chat) is good, if you're a Communist or Anarchist. What kind of interests do you have? Dbzer0 has a bunch of great piracy resources, as an example.
EE is nice. They won't defederate with just about anyone. But so far the mod assholery has been minimal.
Or... And here me out... when can go descentralised ;-)
Don't take it wrong. I dislike to check multiples communities just like you but then I remember how centralised my life is and I'm fine with it.
yeah, I thought the whole point of lemmy was not to centralize everything ... it's nice when things are spread across separate instances, as long as the instances federate
my man has no idea on the motivation behind federation
It's still federated.
They are just trying to say that you don't want all your eggs in one basket. In my opinion it's better to have it posted once on either and it shows up in my list. The logic is that if everyone posts on 1 instance, that instance ends up having more power over other instances. For instance it can defederate with another instance and since all the content is on theirs those users would be forced to start over, or join the bigger instance and abide by their rules. Slowly you end up back in a situation like reddit. Where maybe they put ads in, and you have to choose ads and active number of users, or no ads and very little content starting fresh. Spreading out content helps combat enshitification if you will.
the motivation behind federation
I'm quite deliberately avoiding lemmy.world, so no, we shouldn't just put everything on there.
Wym, don't you want Reddit but somehow more self righteous?
You put it better than I could, it's exactly the self-righteousness that puts me off. And they basically control what gets defederated singlehandedly.
Yes, but on which instance? Lemmy.ml is not controversy free and Lemmy.world already hosts like 50% of Lemmy alone. I think the only viable option that everyone could agree on would be another instance, but that would just leave us with 3 communities.
I think the only viable option that everyone could agree on would be another instance, but that would just leave us with 3 communities.
Relevant XKCD:
Exactly. Instead why don't let grow MORE NICHE communities with specific kind of memes on smaller instances?
The larger communities are easier to find and have more subscribers, people can post to one of the smaller ones, but very few people will see it.
There was some proposal that I have seen multiple times on Lemmy and at least once on the GitHub repo that communities should be able to subscribe to each other much like users can subscribe to communities. I vastly prefer this to other proposals such as auto-merging communities with the same name, which I can think of a few ways that can go wrong.
It would also be reasonably intuitive for the average user, since following stuff is already a familiar action you take on social media. You wouldn't really need to understand the quirks of federation to know why posting to one community makes it appear on other downstream communities. And as far as I know about ActivityPub (which is admittedly not much), it's not a stretch use it to implement a feature like this.
I wonder if this proposal ever reached anywhere.
A better proposal in my eyes would be a "improved cross-post". Currently crossposts are just posts that link to the other post, thus making two separate conversations and double the spam for people.
My proposal would be for a crosspost to act like a true link to the original, where people wouldn't see them as two independent psots but the cross posting would just expand the amount of people that sees the original. Users that click on the cross posted post are directed to the instance it was originally posted, and the conversations are kept simple.
I guess that to implement this we would need to change how a post appears to people, it would in a way look like a post from community A that shows in community B, but the ID of the post is the same so it shows up once in feeds. Dunno.
The idea that I'm talking about is actually more like communities forming a network, with chains of following. If I host a new instance and create a memes community in it, I'd like to start having that community follow memes @ lemmy.ml and memes @ lemmy.world, so that the community already has content from the get-go, but users may be able to post memes that are unique to my instance and its followers. The followers would also see memes from upstream unless my community unfollows them, as long as they don't also follow them independently.
This model of the network would allow each community to independently determine which other communities it thematically implies, without the user having to follow all 4 communities with the same name but different content across the platform.
The multireddit suggestion is more like having directories/tags for communities. It wouldn't achieve quite the same thing, but it would be useful as well. Both ideas can coexist and complement each other.
Crazy talk. Next you're gonna say we only need one 196 instead of five.
To be fair onehundrednintysix exists because the 196 mods are a bunch of shitlibs, also 19864 exists because tbh I thought it was funny and I still do (also its more left wing)
So if I'm right about this....
- [email protected] - this is the original one, which was frozen and brought back to life after everyone left. people still post here tho dunno why maybe they're lost?
- [email protected] - this is where the mods went. it has a lot of subscribers but most of those are dead accounts
- [email protected] - this is where all the posters went. the most active one.
- [email protected] - bc "[kittenzrulz123] thought it was funny and ... its more left wing"
- [email protected] - the furry version
- [email protected] - this is locked and just points to one of the 196es.
196 mods are a bunch of shitlibs
I'm literally a trans socialist, and 100% of the other mods are either gay or trans. We're as left as left gets.
I'll say it as many times as I have to: The move had nothing to do with politics. There's a lot of value in Ada's style of moderation, because cishet people have damn near the whole internet to serve as their "safe space" for the lack of a better term, so the value of having a dedicated queer instance is enormous. Her work means that communities like [email protected] already have the vast majority of the work done for them.
By and large, we are in agreement with Ada and her mod actions. (We don't tolerate transphobes, racists, etc., and that didn't change after the move). Where we disagree is things like Kolanaki getting banned for saying he wants to learn to be an ally but can't ask about trans topics without getting negative replies. In a community like QDF it would make sense to remove the comment because it's not the time or place for his input, but on 196 we feel like it'd be a lot more productive to teach him what he can do better to engage with us more effectively, rather than assume he's incapable of doing so. He's never said anything transphobic in either of the 196s I mod for, and I see no reason he shouldn't be welcomed in the community.
And it's worth noting that [email protected] is still free of transphobes/racists/tankies/etc., despite the panic.
Ahem...
isn't the point of the fediverse to not consolidate?
Options are better than useless limitations (ignoring scope creep)
I created an instance for one specific community so that users won't be affected by who federates from who (unless you're a spam instance or something like that)
There're some different ideas in the thread now, basically a fediverse type of consolidation.
Yeah let's just centralize all of this bullshit.
/s
Centralize the output but it's only replicated across each imstance.
Yeah we eventually got to that in the other comments. It was a whole thing
One main community greater than others with the same topic on a decetralized platform ≠ centralization.
To be fair, it is one form of centralization; although, I admit, I was twisting the meaning of the term a bit to fit my sarcastic remark.
That being said, as primarily a shitposting lurker who only occasionally actually creates content designed for sharing, I don't mind the extra communities. I'm no stranger to seeing reposts, and I get my kicks from leaving the odd comment that may or may not spawn some sort of rant (usually from myself, not the other parties), but hopefully just tickles someone, and then scrolling to the next. If it's the same thing, I just keep scrollin'.
I could see how it would be irritating to post to multiple communities designed around the same idea, but perhaps the solution is more like turning each community into an aggregate of all similar communities. You could opt your community into a master community, and any post made in one would get shared to all of them.
How about rebasing instead of merging to get a more linear meme history?
but lemmy.ml users are by far funnier and more based
It didn’t used to be like this. Maybe take it up with the brave patriot who’s made it his sacred duty to repost ml memes to world, in the hopes of convincing the world admins to defederate from ml. https://lemmy.world/comment/15251475
critical support to that lone soldier, I hope he succeeds in his mission, I would love to never see another .world post
Oh no, whatever will all the rest of us do without chronic reposters who are allergic to reading articles?
lol!
There should be a way to see the content from different communities with the same name but from different instances in the same page, like some sort of automatic multireddit. The content would probably be limited to instances federated with your home instance but even then it's something I would like to have.
You cannot assume that communities with the same name are meant to be on the same topic.
Say I set up an instance focused on discussing parties at home. There are fun in-person games you can play with your friends when many of you are over, so I would create a community c/games for discussing them. Now, what if I want my instance to federate with lemmy.world? They already have a c/games that is dedicated to videogames. Maybe I also would need a community dedicated to videogames, but I'd have to call it c/videogames, because I already have a c/games.
Some human intervention would be required to let the network know that the local c/videogames is the one that has to federate with lemmy.world's c/games, and not the local c/games.
Maybe an automatic suggestion would be fine as a starting point, but it would be more useful that communities themselves could explicitly establish which remote communities they are associated with, without depending on the names.
That's actually a pretty idea. I'm imaging something like a tool included into lemmy where you can collect different subs into one folder and even share these/export those folders as xml or json to a new account... And now we're talking about RSS-feeds. Basically.
But RSS-feeds included into lemmy. I don't really know if that would help to get rid of reposts, but it's certainly an interesting idea. Something one would have to integrate in an Lemmy update, so you would need to contribute to the Lemmy code.
I actually love this idea. I'm on a federated service, why do I need to go to 3 meme communities on 3 instances when I could go to "meme" and see all of them?
Crossposts from within the cross-feed could be automatically hidden to avoid showing the same post multiple times, and then we just start spreading the word to crosspost instead of reposting. I think the only issue is that this would definitely be better to implement client-side because AP is just a protocol to move data, whereas this requires checking too many user-defined variables to make it idiomatic easily. I could be wrong though, I don't know the AP code very well
no
Thanks for this detailed reasoning.
ok
Quick! Someone crosspost this to [email protected]
MAKE .WORLD EVERYTHING!
Õr mãybê dõñ't
It would be tight if there was a local option(What we have now) and a All option that let's you see all the communities across all federated spaces that share that same name.
I agree, theres no need to fight
Your proposal is much too streamlined.
Perhaps you presume memes are a commodity of which consumption should be maximized!
Nay, I say. Memes are an essential nutrient that becomes toxic in larger doses.
Thus, they must be scattered about in the environment to be encountered by happenstance whilst I pursue my main information foraging goal of finding ad hoc justification for my durable sense of dread.
Memes, uhh, find a way.
Do whatever you want but I am planning many epic shitposts pretty much anywhere I can get a reaction.
Ok.
Updoot for a great use of the unpopular opinion meme.
The chronically online weirdos on world don't like the chronically online weirdos on ml. They are both chronically online weirdos and I try to view these really active communities or names I recognize like a zoo. These people are throwing shit at eachother for our amusement. Keep it separate.
I see we both took a day trip to the zoo and got locked up by accident.
We're all trapped in the zoo, my friend. The illusion is that none of us are caged.
Also, one of Lemmy’s biggest benefits is the lack of centralization. Reddit’s biggest flaw is that every subreddit is hosted by the same site. That means every single subreddit is ultimately under the control of just a few admins. Federation tries to change that, by allowing virtually anyone to be an admin. If you don’t like a particular instance’s admins, you can change instances or spin up your own.
Consolidating communities totally defeats the purpose of federation. If things are consolidated on a specific instance and you don’t like that instance’s admins, you can’t just change instances. You’re locked into the instance, the same way redditors are locked into using Reddit.
Really great point, I'd be stoked for these communities to drift further from eachother. That's just more content for us.
The issue is that lemmy.world is having federation issues bc they didn't update to last release
I think they are about to.
I think it's healthy for the fediverse to have similar communities on different instances, because if we centralize, it basically becomes reddit, which means moderation and censorship are at the whims of whoever owns the only place people go.
I'd also like to give a shout-out to sopuli.xyz/c/memes for having a popular memes community too.
Do you want to readegermansmemessfrom ich_iel? Cause that's how you get german memes from ich_iel.
Always two there are. And they're both full of reposts.
Yes
