World War III has officially begun, Ukraine’s ex-top general says
World War III has officially begun, Ukraine’s ex-top general says
"Because in 2024, Ukraine is no longer facing Russia. Soldiers from North Korea are standing in front of Ukraine. Let's be honest. Already in Ukraine, the Iranian 'Shahedis' are killing civilians absolutely openly, without any shame," said Zaluzhny, adding that North Korean and Chinese weapons are flying into Ukraine. Zaluzhny urged Ukraine's allies to draw the right conclusions. "It is still possible to stop it here, on the territory of Ukraine. But for some reason our partners do not want to understand this. It is obvious that Ukraine already has too many enemies. Ukraine will survive with technology, but it is not clear whether it can win this battle alone," he said.
My chain of reasoning:
- if Ukraine loses (or has to enter a very unfavourable agreement), it's not due to Ukraine wanting to lose, but no longer having the means to oppose (after all, Russia is a bigger country and also inherited nearly all the weapons of the USSR, and that was a lot)
- thus, if Ukraine loses, inability or unwillingness of allies to support them is involved
- if subsequently, a victorious Russia recovers economically, Russia may undertake further conquests
- the next conquest could be westward of Ukraine, and a member of NATO --> path A to a really bad war
- however, Russia might be too exhausted to undertake another conquest soon, or might collapse economically, even into revolutionary conditions --> path to uncertain times
- however, there's another conflict waiting to happen: China is systematically training its military for attacking Taiwan, and systematically threatening Taiwan with military maneuvers and political statemements
- it should be noted that China has also had border conflicts with India and Vietnam, and territorial disputes with many more countries, though no claims against their sovereignity
- if Ukraine loses, this implies that Western countries will abandon an ally if pressed hard enough
- subsequently China will consider whether it can press Taiwan hard enough, and I think it will conclude "yes" due to proximity --> path B to a really bad war
- this development might come to a stop though, if Taiwan should surprisingly announce on some year that it has nuclear weapons and conduct a test
Conclusion: I have doubts, but yes, there is a potential for a chain reaction if it's demonstrated that international law does not have enough backers (does not apply if you are big enough).
Remember Trump is going to stop it before he is president! He is going to call Putin and tell him he better knock it off.
More like Biden is doing everything he can to start it before he leaves office.
Maybe he agrees with the general in the OP. Knowing that Putin won't stop with Ukraine, I'd try to stop him now before he moves to other targets, too.
This is a serious matter, as halting the ongoing conflict could save countless lives. There is concern that current policies, such as the decision to permit Ukraine to carry out strikes within Russia, may escalate tensions rather than contribute to de-escalation. A more focused effort on diplomatic solutions could be instrumental in fostering peace and mitigating further harm.
Here's some food for thought. If we turned the tables and Canada was being invaded by the US, and Putin said he could call Trump and stop the invasion so long as whatever territories Trump took stay American, I would rather suicide bomb a crowd of Americans than accept defeat. I imagine the Ukrainians feel the same way. I can't imagine that changing.
So we forever surrender any and all autonomy and agency in the face of nuclear blackmail? Folding on Ukraine now, only reinforces two lessons:
- Countries with nukes can bully those without them
- You should really get your own nukes to at least have somewhat parallel threat to any invaders/belligerence
The NATO/CSTO ‘nuclear umbrella’ curbs the need or desire to seek a domestic nuclear arms program - Pakistan sought nuclear weapons in the 80s after their rival India got them, and the proliferation network afterwards arguably contributed to Iranian knowhow for their own weapons program:
1987
• Khan is suspected of having made an offer to Iran to provide a package of nuclear technologies, including assistance for the difficult process of casting uranium metal.
• KRL begins to publish publicly available technical papers that outline some of the more advanced design features Khan has developed. The papers include information that would normally be classified in the U.S. and Europe and show that KRL is competent in many aspects of centrifuge design and operation. The papers also include specifications for centrifuges with maraging steel that can spin faster than earlier aluminum designs. Later, in 1991, KRL publishes details on how to etch grooves around the bottom bearing to incorporate lubricants. These technical developments are important for Khan’s P-2 centrifuges.
1988
• Iranian scientists are suspected of having received nuclear training in Pakistan.
Fuck de-escalation, there is no way Russia ends their atrocity without either total surrender from Ukraine or overwhelming force. Let's get it over with before it festers further. Bomb Moscow, lightly, and fucking annihilate it and several other key sites if there's even a whiff of retaliation.
Fuck Russia, enough is enough. Miss me with the "but the innocents" bullshit, cuz yeah, I agree - "but the goddamned innocents!"
Russia never had any limitations on the weapons they got from their allies. Ukraine actually had them. Russian propaganda is trying to paint it as escalation, but the thing is that the west was already trying to de-escalate, and is now loosening the limitations.
I do believe the west should continue trying to de-escalate. But I think at this point Ukraine should take the deal and give up their land even though I think that's disgusting. But it's like an infection that has been going for way too long. Amputate the leg so the body can live.
It's going to catch up to you.
I feel like the Ukraine has one enemy. It’s just that the enemy has their hands in so many other country’s pots that those countries are either happy to help them, or obliged. But either way, I agree that Ukraine is unfortunately screwed.
Europe needs to stand the fuck up and decide if they are actually allies or not. Stop Russia now or they won't stop till they get to France.
Ukraine's enemy is Vladimir Putin's ego.
It's not even like Hitler and WWII. Hitler had plausible strategic reasons to expand Germany's territory and the industrial capacity to do it. So did Japan. Horrendous, but like reasonable in a horrific Machiavellian way.
Russia is... impaling itself over a comparatively tiny strip of territory, and dragging allies in, only because admitting defeat would bruise Putin's public image, and he basically sacrificed his entire economy and brainwashed his people to do it. Russia's actual territory isn't even at risk.
comparatively tiny strip of territory
Most of Russia's land is useless...
It's not amount the amount of land it's the food they produce, the wealth of it's citizens, it's ports, and its land borders with Europ that Putin wants.
Dude is trying to claw back as much of the USSR as he can, and he'll stop with Ukraine as much as Hitler stopped with Poland.
It doesn't matter how they're obliged, North Korea is actively engaging in war and are thus a belligerent
Edit: to that one person who downvoted me: you're a fucking moron that should google 'belligerent'
You're describing World War 1
World War happens when at least two great powers are on either side, according to League of Nations
It seems like it hasn't "bloomed" into something resembling the scale of the world wars yet. Ukraine is massive though, has room to contain a lot of warfare, but as of now it's still mostly contained.
I'm sure Putin would rather escalate than go back, though.
If this war leaves Ukraine, I'm gonna consider my days numbered. If it leaves Ukraine we'll probably have less than a decade left, and those years won't be good years.
Putin is so fucked in the head for wanting to conquer so bad that he's willing to do this, Russian people are equally fucked in the head for supporting it.
Shame it couldn't've started with a better US government
Have no idea if /s implied... if the group think here is ww3 is awesome and Ukraine should be encouraged to drag US into war with Russia as it will be with war on Iran.
A couple of weeks ago, there was western consensus that war was lost and a need to cut losses. After Biden escallation, and Ukraine getting its ass kicked harder, we now need to escallate more??? Because corrupt Ukrainian politicians can be bribed to destroy their country harder, and put out a PR release????
It is quite hilarious how squirrels attention span to history is what the latest propaganda tells them it is.
Your handlers should have taught you to spell escalate correctly.
Nyet
I suppose the orcs can have their opinion.
Please be mindful of the conversation, as making excessive relevant statements is discouraged around here.
That's a bold claim, not that I necessarily disagree with it. Are there groups of well respected historians that would agree that it has begun? I could only find a few here and there that think it has started.
WWII started on the 3rd of September 1939, according to British history books, and some time in 1941 according to most Americans (or so I am led to believe), but I'm sure the Poles would think it was some point before either of those...
I believe that even in the West that's just the elementary school level of history. When you dig deeper the 1931 Japanese invasion of Manchuria often shows up as the beginning and if not then you have several other events like the Khalkhyn Gol battle in the east or in the west anything from occupation of Rhineland through Anschluss, Munich, occupationf of Czechia to Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.
It’s possible that U.S. now will tell Ukraine to give up to Russia, what a mess.
Oh I’ve no doubt trump is going to hand them over as quickly as possible.
It began in 2008, it just wasn't kinetic yet.
I think that ultimately it's a war of attrition on both sides.
The west believes that the war is for as long as Putin is alive/coherent. While it's likely some other KGB cunt will take over and do the same shit, it's also possible that someone steps in and reverses course, pulling Russia out of potential economic collapse.
Russia believes that their might will topple Ukraine because the west will only back to a certain point, and because Ukraine will likely give up control of specific areas before seeing unsustainable bloodshed. Putin will claim victory and book his place alongside the Russian elite.
Those that are suffering are the Ukrainians, watching their country get torn apart.
IMO there's potentially a third side, and that could occur thanks to Trump. If Trump alienates the rest of the west AND China, we could potentially see China align itself with Europe and Ukraine, resulting in total isolation for Russia. This is just conjecture, but if the Russian economy is close to collapse, China may view it as beneficial to align with European markets, rather than prop up a failing market.
Lol stfu. Hyperbolic clickbait.
Seriously. By the articles definition, were at WW12 by now. Name literally any conflict were other countries didn't get involved. Arms sharing does not equal WW3. The current crisis with Israel literally has multiple countries bombing each other. Much better WW3 candidate.
Are you expecting Ukraine not to advocate for more material aid?
What happens after Electric Boogaloo? Anyone know?
Because in 2024, Ukraine is no longer facing Russia.
Eh the Korean war (og) had a lot more nations in there.
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Ukraine get help from US and European allies and expect russia not to get the same treatment from its allies is just stupid.
Also, if Ukrainian really think US and alias care about then they need to re-think that. All they care about is to keep the conflict going because it is making money.
Being sent weapons and then told not to use them until we say so is wildly different from openly providing another country with boots on the ground
No Ukrainian ally sent thousands for their troops to the front lines. If the UN sent troops the escalation would be... Well I don't know. Truly flood gates open.
Sending weapons and aid to Ukraine is not the same as sending active military.
And yes. US should care. If Ukraine is lost the front lines of nato countries will be bordering Russian armies. Unless USA is ready to leave that alliance. Which by the last veto on Israel and Trumps view of nato, might become reality.