Most young people are no longer proud to be Americans, poll finds
Most young people are no longer proud to be Americans, poll finds
Overall, 39% of U.S. adults say they are "extremely proud" to be American in the most recent poll.
Meanwhile, only 18% of those aged 18-34 said the same, compared to 40% of those aged 35-54 and 50% of those 55 and over.
18% is still too high. As Obama's pastor said, God damn America! Americans have very little to be proud of at this point.
What is there to be proud of? An illegitimate court, house and senate bought and paid for by corporations and foreign governments, a capitalist economy that crushes 99.99 percent to lift the 0.01 even higher? These are points of shame, not pride.
Honestly I'm pretty proud of how well turned the ship around on gay rights. Like in the span of a decade there was like a 40% opinion swing on that. We're still not where we need to be and it seems like it's getting worse though tbh. I think Europe overtook us on that front because I feel much safer here in Germany being gay in public.
How (generally) genuinely nice and outgoing everyone is in the states. (Outside of the south where it tends to be a very fake in my experience.) In the states I'm mildly introverted, in Germany I'm usually one of the most outgoing in the room.
Our multicultural foods and stuff. You're never more than a stones throw from really good Mexican, Chinese, Thai, etc. food anywhere in the US.
Turning right on a red light, the European mind cannot comprehend it.
Air Conditioning.
Handicap accessibility.
Our national parks are unparalleled.
Probably a few other American gems I could think of if forced to.
All that being said I'm immigrating to Germany right now and the grass is very much greener over here. I have no desire to live in the US again. I'm definitely not proud of America anymore, but I am proud of a few things about America.
I’m sorry, and I know this isn’t the point you’re trying to make, but the idea of someone asking an American why they’re proud to be an American, and they respond with “air conditioning” is just so funny to me that I’ve been giggling like a moron about it for the last 20 minutes.
Can confirm, am German and not proud to be an American either.
How dare you!
Ironically many Americans are proud to be [pick any European country].
Which I always found is considering they nor their parents nor grandparents had every set foot in that nation.
In theory, to be American your ethnic background should be diverse. We are the uniting force of humanity.
It's like me claiming to be Polish-British because my mum's family came here in the 1600s. It's stupid.
This is logical.
If you're parent/grandparent are still a German citizen you can apply for German citizenship until 2031.
I thought we were living in 2023. Why be proud of coincidence to happen to born in a location? Feel lucky compared to other locations, maybe that makes more sense.
Yeah, I've never understood it. Especially when that location gives you privilege over people in other places. You're proud because you were born in a wealthy country due to no control of your own? Fuck your pride, there are people starving to death. Feeling lucky you're not one of them, fine. Being proud of it? That makes you an asshole.
It's conceivable that one would be proud of their country for the actions their country takes, both domestic and/or world stage. Like I'm sure the people living in those Scandinavian where a vast majority of their country is healthy, happy, and even their criminals are treated with dignity and respect can be proud of how their country has turned out.
I don't think it's a common interpretation to feel self-directed pride due to one's country. Unless, maybe, you're the president or someone who makes actual decisions for the country.
As a German punk song said: "If you have nothing else to be proud of you can always be proud of your country"
I do feel extremely fortunate to be American, but yeah, it doesn’t really seem like we’ve done anything worth being proud of as a nation since… ww2? That was a fucking while ago.
The kids under 35 have only known post-911 snooping, bigotry, military adventurism, the 2008 mortgage crash, housing and education costing multiples of what previous generations paid (in adjusted dollars), COVID insanity, a political system that is completely inaccessible to them and utterly uncaring about their needs, and, finally, a climate being actively accelerated to disaster.
The wonder here shouldn’t be at their lack of patriotism. It should be at the fact that they aren’t setting fire to everything, murdering politicians, billionaires, and their lackeys, and generally grinding everything to a halt.
I feel like there's also the fact that everyone who has comfortably been established tells them they're lazy and aren't trying hard enough...to get past all the barriers those greedy people have set up
And that we have the resources to make sure they don't die and their teeth don't fall out...but they don't get it
And the fact that the elites have convinced them somehow that voting is pointless... They need to get shaken out of that.
If everyone who was in that 82% voted, the republican party would die overnight
Don't forget seeing kids their age murdered in classrooms just about every day!
I don't know a lot of teens but the handful I do know all tell me that active shooter drills are extremely terrifying and traumatic, because they aren't told in advance if it is real or not, so they never know if they're about to get fucking murdered. Teachers don't know either. Can you imagine? They're going to be able to vote in 2024 and all told me they're voting down the line democrat, even though we are in a blood red city in a reddish purple state.
'Murica and 'Muricans are sooo behind in the world. I'm not sure why but I think that the media veil enclosing USA is doing a fair bit of lifting. There's now alternative/new ideas and examples of how countries work today. The mental exposure for the regular American is mostly infighting, some fluff piece or threats from other countries. It's a bit interesting to see how it works but also scary since, you know... Military
It should be at the fact that they aren’t setting fire to everything, murdering politicians, billionaires, and their lackeys, and generally grinding everything to a halt.
Do you really think this would improve things?
I won't deny that there are a lot of very serious problems and that progress is far slower than it ought to be. I also don't think that wanton murder and anarchy tend to actually improve things very much - ask the victims of the Holodomor if the Russian Revolution improved life for them. Things can always be much worse. That doesn't mean we have to accept the status quo, to be clear, but it is important to maintain a bit of perspective. "Grinding everything to a halt" also includes such useful things as food supply chains and having any job at all. Is it really that much of a surprise that most people wouldn't be super eager to throw away everything they have and plunge the country (and by extension, world) into chaos just in a vague hope that the end result will be better? That's not a small ask.
Do you really think this would improve things?
Do you like modern constitutional democracies over monarchies? You can thank people setting fire to everything, murdering politicians, billionaires, and their lackeys.
Do you like when workers have rights? You can thank people setting fire to everything, murdering politicians, billionaires, and their lackeys
Do you like civil rights? You can... well you get the idea
To any “patriot” who would tell these young folks to just leave the United States, I’d like to submit a preemptive YOU are the one’s who should be getting the fuck out. YOU are the ones who are un-American, YOU are the ones supporting a traitor to our country, and YOU are the ones fucking it up for everyone else by voting against not just your interests, but our interests as the not billionaire class. Hopefully, enough youth in this can be motivated to make us something to be proud of, rather than an embarrassment.
I'll also add a preemptive "I have no fucks to give" to anyone who wants to try and shame me for not playing nice with these "patriots". I definitely spend quite a bit of time trying to understand these people, but only in the hopes that a method to marginalize racists/traitors/bigots can be developed. You want to try to figure out how to "work with" these people, go right ahead. Not going to waste my time.
Signed: One pissed off veteran.
Yeah when I see god bless america signs it makes me want to put up a sign saying america be worthy of gods blessing. Since I don't believe in god though it might send the wrong message
No, don't export them! Maybe forced active service? Idiot company.
I find Patriotism incredibly arrogant and somewhat ignorant of the world around you. I don't care where you're from, I only care about decent individuals.
You are confusing patriot and nationalist.
A Patriot loves his country and tries to do what's right for it, as in make it better.
A nationalist is a chauvinist, who believes his country is better than others, and deserves to have power over them. The nationalist is therefore also racist and xenophobe, and prefer isolation rather than cooperation with other countries.
I'm a patriot, but I realize my country has flaws, and some countries are better in some respects. But I still love my country.
Just wanna point out that these words don't necessarily have those connotations globally. When I think of nationalism, I think of anti-colonialism. When I hear patriot, i think jingoist with flag on a pickup. It's totally valid if you wanna use those words with those qualifications but if you happen to be talking to me that's just how I would react to hearing it. Even if it turns out we see eye to eye on everything
Also worth pointing out that every nationalist identifies as a patriot due to the negative connotations of the former.
Patriotism is supporting the state
Nationalism is supporting the people
Eh... If you live in a company that treats people fairly, is run by the people, for the people, takes care of the poor, and embodies liberty and justice for all, then that's something that you can be proud to be a part of. But unfortunately those are just things they teach school children here, not things that the country actually does.
That would be correct if people would freely choose where they are born. But they don't, so it doesn't make sense.
It does also not make sense if you were born some place and then move to this "better" country: Instead of making it better you leave for somewhere that is already good. How would it ever get better if people just leave?
And those that actively work on making a place better are doing the good thing themselves, not the country. They should be proud of themselves instead.
The thing is that there is no country that really does that. I'm Finnish and while many things are a lot better, that has at least not been entirely true to this country as long as I have had some real concept of the world around me. At the same time, there is some pride not in as I am proud to be Finnish but I am a little bit proud of how much Finland has accomplished on that front. At least I am when I am not entirely pissed off by the majority of the country because of the shit it is doing.
I used to have no concept of pride in my country of birth and I don't still see it as something to be proud of as I did nothing to end up here. But in the past decade, I have worked in places that have taught me how bad things really can be, especially to part of the population. It is a weird dichotomy to see the worst of your country and still see how it can be better than in many places. It really does give me whiplash in my own head.
I think a lot of people are confusing "proud" with "glad". I'm in the 35-54 range and I don't think there's much to be proud of anymore. And frankly I'm closer to embarrassed than indifferent on the subject given the progress we've lost in the last decade or so. But am I glad to be an American?
Sure, I'm glad I wasn't born in Russia only to be a bullet sponge in an unjustifiable war.
I'm glad I wasn't born in Afghanistan with the Taliban oppression.
I'm glad I wasn't born in Syria during one of the longest and bloodiest conflicts in modern history.
I'm glad I wasn't born to sift through cancerous e-waste or mine diamonds for a warlord in Africa.
I'm glad I wasn't born into North Korea (self explanatory)
So, while I'm glad I wasn't born under worse circumstances, I'm not proud that we're directly and indirectly responsible for many of those circumstances.
But, I also don't think it's an unsolvable problem. We could make America a place to be proud to be from, but that's a very long road from where we are right now and I fear that there's also a lot of potential to get worse if the tinderbox is mishandled.This might be a little controvercial in american politics community (not so much under europeans but even here it kind of is) but there is no right way to be proud of the place you are born in! You can be proud of partular parts of your system, your society or similar but not the location, that's always fucking stupid!
You should only be proud of the things you've done.. Same with shame
I'm proud of your mom.
Americans have not had it hard in a long time. No world wars have been fought on our soil. The wars we have been in since WW2 have not been very popular. I grew up gen X and we pretty much thought the world was going to end and that the previous generations handed us a pile of shit.
The kids now days look at all of us like a bunch of hypocritical ass hats. If I was a kid watching the shit adults are doing and talking about now, I would not be proud either. I would be embarrassed. I am embarrassed of what we have/are becoming. A lot of older people sit around and bitch about the younger generation but we are the ones that raised them. We are the ones not taking care of business like we told them they should. We are the ones babbling nonsense, disrespecting the law, doing all the things we told our kids not to do. Why the hell should they listen, or be proud or form the same values as we may have? We are literally showing them that none of this matters and then turn around and blame them for telling us all to fuck off.
A lot of older people sit around and bitch about the younger generation but we are the ones that raised them.
I believe that is a global problem, though. A lot of countries have massively aging populations. I feel like a youngster here in Germany, and I'm in my mid-30's. Lots of old bastards telling my generation we are lazy and need to get off our asses. Sometimes I wish we could just take all these people and put them somewhere else so I don't have to hear that shit anymore. :D
Millennial here, and I feel the same way. Every time a kid’s disrespectful, it’s very likely there’s a Millennial parent raising them that way.
Ribbit
American healthcare is far too overpriced and inefficient, but in a lot of ways it is more humane to patients(before the bill comes of course) than at least the country I live in now. Hospitals are notorious for horrible living conditions, difficulty getting to see a doctor, etc. A relative of mine had to sneak in food because her mom was only getting basically 2 slices of bread and apple sauce twice a day. Also, they basically had patients on chamberpots that were overflowing. This is in the capital city of a fairly well of European country.
We give around a billion a year to Israel because after they pay for universal healthcare and free tuition for college they don't have enough to buy a bunch of shit from our "defense" manufacturing industry...
America has been full blown capitalist for decades now, our government cares more about corporation's profits than the well being of Americans.
You mean we give them money so they can buy from stuff from our military industrial complex? Basically meaning that we give money to companies that make weapons and tons of money? The same kind of corporations that use said money to lobby Congress for things that favor them? You're definitely right that our government cares more about corporations profits than us.
I am very proud to say that I'm not proud to be an American. Being proud of your country is a path toward genocide.
You can have pride in your country without being stupid about it.
I'm proud to be an American. I'm not proud of everything America does.
I'm proud that we were the first to land on the moon. I'm proud that we (eventually) helped win WWII over the Nazis. I'm proud of parts of our art and culture, Asimov, (early) Game of Thrones, most of the best games in the world.
I also protested the Iraq war. I think our ultra-capitalist, corporate worshipping ways have been a negative influence on the world.
I'm proud of Al Gore's call to action on climate change. I'm not proud we haven't done much about it.
I'm proud we have the potential to get off planet, self-sustaining colonies going. I wish we'd push harder for it.
You can find reasons to be proud of your country without endorsing everything they do.
America is a continent lol
Well, y'know, we were an explicit apartheid state for 80% of our history, and were founded on the back of slavery and genocide so brutal it served as the blueprint for Nazi Germany... The more alarming part is that anyone is proud of our nation.
I'm not young and I'm really not proud. It's honestly embarrassing. Trump was a disgrace and ruined any sense of pride I had.
Honestly: For all his many, many, many faults, he was still a massive improvement over Bush junior. His insurrection and the way he handled Covid was terrible, but the Iraq-war was worse and unforgivable.
Why would they be? I'm not.
Why would anyone be proud of something they had zero control over?
It's extremely stupid.
If there's anything people should take pride in it would be their own work and accomplishments... Certainly not where they were born or anything else equally arbitrary that could have just as easily gone another way.
Based Carlin
Be proud of something that you have no personal responsibility for creating is weird.
If I am proud of my father, that is weird to you?
your father earned that :)
Proud of your father for what?
Your father has nothing to do with the country you live in besides beeing born there, as you were. You can be proud of specific people, but beeing proud of a nation as a whole doesn't make any sense to me.
I mean, gestures broadly
I'm 65 now. When I was a kid, I was relatively patriotic. Civil rights, moon landing, all that stuff. Now? Not so much. The US is still much better than many other countries but it's not the world leader that used to be.
Good be proud of things you do, not how you were born.
This Gen Xer isn't either. I drank the Kool Aid so hard as a teen. I joined the army and learned how to fall out of perfectly good airplanes. Lost all of that after 9/11. It took me a few years but all the Bush regime lies and invading Iraq really brought it into focus for me.
The American Dream. You can keep it.
In the words of George Carlin (I think) "you know why they call it the American dream? Because you've got to be asleep to believe it."
Carlin was a beast. That quote too.
Being proud of a piece of land just because you happen to be born in it makes no sense, but it's specially nonsensical when that land belongs to the US.
It seems strange to me that people have pride in the circumstances of their birth, something which they have no control over. Most Americans became Americans by doing nothing more than sliding out of their mother's womb. It's one thing to be proud to be a citizen if you worked hard and took the citizenship test to earn it, or during certain times where citizenship actually matters like when doing one's civic duties such as voting or attending jury service, but the people who go around boasting about how proud they are to be American always seem so phony to me. What exactly are they proud of? Why are they proud of it? So bizarre.
It's brainwashing. You need pride in your country to have people to staff the army. They need your country to become your religion so you just blindly believe whatever they tell you. Patriotism is a blank check. They can piss on you and tell you it's raining and you'll wave your flag and holler USA! USA! Greatest country in the world if for not all those other people. It's nothing wrong with this country it's all the other people. Send all those people home the ones who's grandparents were born here.
God I hope in a couple generations our grandkids or maybe their grandkids are so sick of this s*** that humanity actually decides to become decent human beings without being told to do so.
Need to belong
tangental but I think the idea of "Service Garuntees Citizenship" to be an interesting one, from Starship Troopers. In the book, service didn't necessarily mean military service although it was the most common from memory.
not saying that fascist regime was right or anything lol but I do think it's at least an interesting concept, on paper at least
I second that and I'm 54. America has given us precious little to be proud of and the "American Exceptionalism" folks seem willfully ignorant.
I consider myself an Oregonian first and foremost.
As a non-American, I think the country still gives the world something. People may bitch and moan the military industrial complex, but I am glad American taxpayers sacrifice their own money to keep Chinese imperialism from devouring my country.
I also think the American tech sector brings a lot to the table.
Don't get me wrong, it's a cesspool of a nation, but it still produces useful goods and services.
but I am glad American taxpayers sacrifice their own money to keep Chinese imperialism from devouring my country.
You are from Taiwan by any Chance? I’m tempted to agree with you in that region, but I am not sold that the US is an overall net-positive if we also look into places like the middle-east and Latin America.
Obligatory this was true over a decade ago and news flash: things haven't improved.
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I'm embarrassed to be American at this point... Republicans are literal fucking nazis, democrats continue catering to the whims of corporate lobbyist bribes, and corruption is everywhere. Nothing will change until the boomers start dying off ~2032, and that's assuming we can remain a democracy that long.
Germany is currently seeing a resurgence of even-more-literal Nazis. France recently bypassed its legislature in order to force a higher retirement age. The Italian government is de-registering same-sex parents. I might point to literally any action done by the government of Hungary. And that's just Europe.
These problems aren't unique to America by any means. Democracy is very hard, no matter where you are. We're certainly not doing well, but we could be doing much worse.
You're crazy if you think there's not a bunch if young generation politicians who are more than happy to cater to the whims of corporate lobbyist bribes, lol
I hate this. Actively wishing death on people because of the old "boomers bad" meme. You can't really pin all of societies faults on boomers when there's so many complex issues at play and so much propaganda machines. Are you hoping for the random 70 year old fella to die so your party wins? You have more reason to hate a executive from the same generation as you than some random boomer. The machinations that brainwash people into voting right wing will just make the next generation vote right wing as well. Letting capitalism divide people is how it wins.
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Why would u be extremely proud lol.
What's funny is there is a big contingent of mostly older Americans who are flag-waving super-patriots- except when it comes to anything Democrats or people on the left do. America is the best country on Earth. It's also being destroyed by the "woke mob" and Antifa and the "Biden crime family." None of it makes any sense, but if you ask them what they think of America, they will immediately say it's the greatest country in the world.
What is there to be proud of?
Abolishing slavery, ending Jim Crow, giving women the vote, becoming one of the first dozen countries on the planet to legalize gay marriage, helping win WW2, helping support Ukraine, donating more to foreign aid than any other country on the planet, the Marshall Plan, everything about NASA, best national parks on the planet, entertainment capital of the world, first country to land a man on the moon, the whole "nation of immigrants" things making us one of the most diverse countries on the planet.
And of course, none of that excuses the dark parts of our history, the slavery, genocide, imperialism in Latin America, among many, many others. But that brings me to the thing I love most about American: with the exception of the loud Republican minority, we're a country that actually reckons with the dark parts of our past and tries to make up for them instead of sweeping them under the rug. And then we get to work fixing them.
We've made so much progress even in my relatively brief lifetime-- in agonizing two-steps-forward, one-step-back fashion, for sure, but that doesn't make it not count. I'm so excited to see where we go in the future.
Abolishing slavery, ending Jim Crow, giving women the vote, becoming one of the first dozen countries on the planet to legalize gay marriage, helping win WW2, helping support Ukraine, donating more to foreign aid than any other country on the planet, the Marshall Plan, everything about NASA, best national parks on the planet, entertainment capital of the world, first country to land a man on the moon, the whole "nation of immigrants" things making us one of the most diverse countries on the planet.
- Slavery isn't abolished; it can still, per the constitution, be used as punishment.
- Jim Crow may be ended, but the racism that enables it has always been alive and well
- Gave women the right to vote way later than it should have
- Same as above
- Only after being directly attacked
- Only because we spend so obscenely much on war. A billionaire that gives $1000 is not as generous as someone making min-wage that give $10.
- Self-serving imperialism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan#Modern_criticism
- like defunding it to where we have to privatize space flight now? Elon Musk approves!
- I... guess? Arguably has nothing to do with being an American. Lots of countries were throwing money at this-- we just randomly got there first.
- We're openly and emphatically racist, as a country. We simultaneously reject immigration while requiring immigrants to be used as borderline slave labor to ensure our produce doesn't get too expensive.
We've never been the shining city on the hill, but we sure want to pretend we are.
I actually agree, there are many many things to hate America for, and I agree with them, and I will always vocally oppose those elements of this country and encourage others to do so, but, there's also some great things we've done as a country and a people that I very much am proud to have been a part of personally. I won't make pretense to the contrary simply because there are elements for which we ought to, and do, criticize
I have always found it weird to be proud of where you're born. It's pure chance.
Absolutely, you cannot reasonably be proud of accidentally being born in whatever country.
you can however reasonably be proud of your country, and I think that's what they usually mean.
Then again, some people are proud of their skin color, and that doesn't really make any more sense than being proud of nationality.
But the ones who are proud of their skin color are usually racist. So I'm guessing if you are proud to be of a country, you are similarly a nationalist. Which generally also means xenophobe.
Many people have opinions that are not arrived at with reason.
I mean...
*gestures around at everything
I'm 45, and my nationality is nothing to be proud of.
I'm grateful for having been born here, but I can't find it within myself to be prideful over something that I had no control over such as the circumstances of my birth. I have a different concept of pride. I'm prideful for things that I've done such as reaching milestones, accomplishing goals, etc. I don't hate this country, but I definitely don't believe we're the best, but I definitely don't believe we're the worst. For what it's worth, it's my home and I plan on staying.
Does not help the movement most inclined to wrap themselves in a flag just stormed the capital.
Fuck that shit, the fascist dickheads don't get to steal the flag from the rest of us.
They'll pry my American flag out of my cold dead progressive hands, lol.
Like one from abroad old enough to remember the old idea of America as something to aspire to:
It's kind of like losing your older brother to a crippling drug addiction (almost literally). You know that he wasn't always perfect, but he was always there. Nowadays you are never sure how he will act, sometimes showing signs of how he used to be, but more often bring a disappointment.
Haha as a Canadian that's definitely how it feels, but also we easily give in to peer pressure and are accepting more and more drugs from our big bro
Having lived in America for a few years, and been going there to visit family often otherwise, I have a different perspective to offer than the other comments: I don't have to be proud of the government to have deep respect and admiration for the people I've met.
America is a big place. I've been to around 38 or 39 States, most passing through, though the one thing that stood out is the perseverance of the people.
I think you all should be proud in your general strive for not accepting things that are obviously wrong to you. There are disagreements, but at least you guys legitimately make effort to make things right as you feel things should be.There's uproar in the streets, yet it's evidence that people do not want to just sit around and do nothing. I've witnessed sincerely compassionate acts of kindness, in ways I'll never forget. I was homeless for a short while, in Arkansas, and there were people so fed up with the lack of government support, that they themselves just bought apartments, and converted them into soup kitchens where they could feed us. One man had a felony, he spent time in prison for being involved in someone else's demise, yet he did this and spoke his story, not to boast in any way but to hopefully inspire many of us to turn our lives around.
It's a shame the government situation is a bit muddled, although it is also a bit of a mess in the UK, though I just think you guys should be proud to be American in some ways, even if your government is trying to convince you otherwise with their dishonest policies.
Because it's not about the soil, it's about the bond with your people, your history, your culture. There's a good kind of national pride we don't have - the kind that says "look what we've built! Look how we trust each other, look how we all keep things clean together, look how even when we disagree we work towards the goals that matter"
We don't have much trust in our people, our history is short and brutal, and our culture is just bits and pieces of other cultures. We definitely don't have a national goal, we rarely even feel a part of our local community. Our greatest connection is to work, and they'll squeeze out everything they can then cut us loose in a heartbeat
And that all leaves people starving for an identity, which is very exploitable
We felt that way when I was younger. By "we" I mean every American I knew with very few exceptions. I have watched that feeling wain and die over the course of my lifetime. We've made progress in areas like diversity inclusion, but we've slid backwards in so many other ways that people feel disheartened. They see the constant onslaught of the 24 hour news cycle, always reporting about politicians and corporations enacting policies that actively hurt or reduce the quality of life for average Americans, and it's hard to maintain that feeling. Add in the intentionally engineered political division from companies like Fox News and the result is a divided, unhappy, populace.
On a political and governmental level, I'm not proud at all personally. There is very little that our government did that I think should inspire the rest of the world to follow suit. Maybe stopping a few terrible things that it should have never been doing in the first place, but that's hardly anything to be proud of when it's long overdue and with still plenty of other bad things that it's starting or failing to stop.
But as far as the people who live here go, there are a lot of them that I am proud to know and be around. There are some great people here, and maybe they are partially influenced by some good deeds from the country's past, or at least the ideals it promoted. Not government leaders thag would affect things on a large scale, but genuinely good people who make things more bearable for those in their vicinity. Ironically some of them are in demographics that this country is not currently respecting or defending enough.
I find the concept of patriotism as a whole very weird. I mean it's just some land someone in the past declared a country and you happen to be born in.
I wonder why, could it have to do with these last few years that were batshit insane, with a leader that fits in terms of batshit insane?
I lost the last bit of patriotism I had left after the Sandy Hook massacres & all our elected officials did jack shit. Murica is only #1 in white collar crime these days. Our politicians are paid off shills. Wall St is run by the absolute worst scum of the earth bc they know we do nothing to them no matter how many laws they break. SCOTUS is fucking worthless & the country is comprised of about ~35% of the world’s stupidest people.
We need a revolution. That is the ONLY solution at this point but because of all the stupid, we’d much rather fight amongst ourselves than get off our lazy butts and fight the real evils in this world. It’s sad times but I do hope I live long enough to watch it all burn down.
There's a lot I love about America: the natural beauty, some of the people, access to a lot that most of the rest of the world doesn't have similar access to, but I've never bought into the "Proud to be an American" schtick. Our gov't can get fucked, regardless of who the President is. There's corruption that goes way beyond that office.
What do you have access to that most of the rest of the world doesn't? Certainly not free health care?
Doesn't have similar access to. Words create context. Having lived in Cambodia and traveled in several other countries, we have far more access to things we take for granted that are luxuries in a vast portion of the world. Air conditioning, ovens, next day delivery for many things, a separate shower unit, the list goes on.
Extremely proud is a completely different category than "proud". Although I think the title still rings true without the "extremely" quantifier. Even those of us who are older and were proud of what our country represented when we were younger have seen through the lies and are pretty damned disappointed.
Well, gee, I wonder why. Could it be that it's been a shitstorm of fuckery their entire lives? Nah, that can't be it....
I'm in the middle age bracket there and completely agree with them as do most of my similar aged peers.
This seems like a pretty nebulous concept with a lot of wiggle room for interpretation.
Like, am I proud of having been born in the specific place I was and having the parents that I do? I ain't had shit to do with that. I'm American by accident. I'm no more proud of being American than I am of being 5'10": it's just a box I fit into, honestly somewhat uncomfortably. I'm proud of the work I do and the achievements I've... achieved, but nothing I've done would be impossible anywhere else. If anything, there are parts of the world where what I've achieved would have been easier to do and where my preferred lifestyle is more widely accepted (for context, this refers to that I don't like cars, don't own or want to own one, and choose to get around by bike and transit instead) (a friend of my dad's recently told him that I "need a European girlfriend" because "American women don't understand guys like him:" for the record, I've never met this woman).
Anyway, pointless rambling aside, America is just one country out of hundreds in the world, and I don't see why I should feel all nationalistic about having been born in it.
For a lot of folks, I think this is accurate, but the problem is that the US has totally and absolutely exhausted all of its WWI/WWII "good guy" image on the global scene.. As a base line, I feel generally neutral about where I was born, because I had no control over it. It's when I show empathy and factor in the opinion of others that things sour. The US military spent 2/3 of my life bombing Afghan villagers, and they mortgaged my future to do it. I can't be proud of that. We allowed unfettered greed to run rampant with no supervision and crashed the world economy multiple times. I'm not proud of that either.
I have this conversation with some of my older relatives occasionally, and I always tell them that in order for me to be proud, the US needs to do something that's worth being proud of. And while there are some small things, there's nothing that outweighs the immense damage the US has done to the world as a whole in my lifetime.
Very true. I was keeping my scope to just my personal experience, but if you expand how you look at the country to include things that have been done in its name, then we live in a country whose government has systematically oppressed people and aided in genocides, fascist coups, and so many other terrible things throughout the world, and all of that pushes me to be actively the opposite of proud of it. But that also raises the question of to what extent does being proud of your country entail being proud of its government, and that's some political theory shit I don't have the straws for right now.
I am proud of when the US, or anyone does good things. When that's not the case, why be proud?
Being proud of anything that you had no influence over always strikes me as odd.
Which is why I'm proud to be American!
Seriously, if you're feeling like you haven't been able to contribute as much as you want yet, get to work making change. We always need new volunteers to help run election campaigns, and lots of local governments are desperate for new hires.
no shit
Many young Americans lack experience outside the country, meaning they have a warped, likely from the internet, sense of what's right and wrong when compared to other parts of the world.
I'm proud to be an American, in the sense that I'd rather be here than many other parts of the world, even though I recognize there are issues requiring more attention and/or progress. Perhaps it helps that I view things under my own objective lens, gaining first hand experience in many cases, rather than sitting behind a screen and amping up my ignorance.
It's OK to disagree with me of course. Everyone has their reasons, whether pro or anti, but I'd personally question how much experience people younger than myself have in other parts of the world. Many Americans take things for granted with little understanding of how good they have it. Obviously not always the case, but traveling the world is eye opening and no amount of internet research can substitute those experiences.
On the flip-side of this, I had a close friend who traveled the world extensively for 10+ years. Last time I saw him he had visited 65 different countries, often living for months or even years in some of them. He hated coming back to the USA. He said our ideas of freedom and liberty are complete fabrications compared to a great many EU and Asian countries. He always had to add hours to his flight times when traveling through or within the US because he refused to go through the naked scanner, because he felt that they violate our individual rights and privacy. He said he didn't need to deal with those anywhere else. That's just one small example out of a list of dozens that he gave me.
Yeah, privacy wise much of the West sucks. It's not just the US. Germany spies on it's people just like the 5 Eyes (English countries). France literally just passed a law allowing cops to activate phone cameras and mics. The war against terror really took a bite out of everyones privacy.
At least we live in countries that, theoretically, we should be able to vote in reps to undo these things. Sadly we haven't seen that yet.
I get that America is better to live in than many places but it is also a lot worse than many places. And given the incredible natural advantages with which it started compared to most places, that's kind of impressive.
I live in Canada and we find America incredibly frustrating because people always use it as a "well at least we're not that bad" which is a cudgel to keep us from making things better (education, healthcare etc.)
I just get stuck on the pride part of it. I didn't make any of this. I had nothing to do with it. I'm moderately content to be here for the most part. I know I'm privileged compared to many but proud? Nah. It feels off to be proud of where I was born and/or exist. People that came over here and worked hard to get citizenship? Yeah, go ahead I'd be proud too that's a huge life change and not an easy process. That took work and dedication. Otherwise nah. I'm not proud to be an American because being an American isn't any kind of accomplishment for anyone that was born here.
I get what you mean but perhaps you're looking at it with the wrong interpretation? You shouldn't be yeehaw nationalist, blind to the issues proud. Or Freedom Fries proud to whittle it down.
It's worth being proud of the fact we live somewhere that we can have an impact on. Federally? I'm to pessimistic to believe, but state and locally? Absolutely. Don't like the state you live? You just get up and move. We have a lot of freedom and rights to enjoy and be proud of. It's the reason so many flock to live here when there are arguably better places to try first. Especially when we lack some necessary social nets like healthcare.
I met a guy who runs a laundromat explain it like this. In his home country, you need licenses for this and that, certifications, certified employees and inspectors just to run a cleaners. Here? He can just open shop with minimal hassle, and his abilities make or break the business. He's been here for 20 years and the only guy I want touching my suits.
I get why there might be regulations such as that, but it sounds ridiculous to me. As long as you're not doing anything dangerous, best of luck and take your shot. I'm just glad there is some sliver of the dream still alive, where people like him can do what they want business wise.
It's not perfect, but I don't think there's a reason to not be proud that we can, hopefully, keep pushing for a better America every year. As long as we don't let it get nationalistic like in 2003.
It's hard to have true perspective on what it means to be an American with my limited travel. I've never been out of the country. I've been to most southern states, but live in the west coast now (much prefer it here) and am very aware of my bubble. It doesn't take interaction from people living in countries with free healthcare and great work reform to know that our shit is fucked, though. Proud - not yet. Determined to make this a better place - yes.
When I graduated college in the 2008 I read Richard Rorty's "Achieving Our Country" as we entered the recession and were dealing with the shame of Guantanamo, Iraq, and Bush era generally. During this time we also started to experience the rise of identity politics. I was glad I read this, because it helped me avoid the pitfall's of what Rorty criticized as the "New Left" iirc. This is contrast with the "Old Left" "Progressive Left" he identified it. The New Left focused on America's shame from which there is no redemption. The New Left equates patriotism with John Wayne style Chauvinism, American Exceptionalism, and belligerence. With identity politics, it seems even worsened that the new left cares about ideological purity and sin which prevents coalition type movements.
The old left Rorty championed takes a different view. For him, patriotism or love and pride of country that is abandoned by the new left is a harm to the country. The analogy he makes is that similar to how self love and self respect is a necessary condition for an individual to self improve themselves, love of country and national pride are a necessary condition to the betterment of a nation. The old left was more able to balance or reflect on criticism and shameful acts in our nations history, but through love of country and national pride work to improve it. The old left was also more willing to tolerate and cooperate with groups that did not have 100% alignment on views or experiences. The blue collar workers put there flesh and bones on the lines during strikes, but alliance with elites is what made these strikes publicized in the news and move the needle at a national policy and political conversation.
It's a shame that so many young people are finding it hard to balance that love of country with critical national self reflection. People I have very similar political views gawk or chastise me when I describe my sense of pride or love for the US. It's strange how simply loving one's country or taking pride in it is taboo in young leftist folks today, and that makes me somewhat fearful of the future.
Paywall likely, but this Atlantic article does a decent job capturing the gist of the book: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/07/advice-for-the-left-on-achieving-a-more-perfect-union/531054/
It seems to me that the old left doesn’t want to play with the new left just as much as vice versa. Definitely a shame that they can’t work together better but blaming it all on the kids is a strangely conservative position for the ‘old left’ to take….
Old and new left isn't an age thing. And Rorty writing about the new left was writing against themes observed in mature boomers of the 90s, using Snow Crash as example of new left fiction. I think that view is more present in young people today, but old and new left is not meant to imply young vs old generational divides.
Old people, too. Hell half my family has left the US since COVID hit. Crazy stuff.
Here here.
Never have been. I got a bad taste of what nationalism was all about very young and only grew to despise everything unjust about this country and it's bullshit "we're the best!" stuff.
For the non Americans, surveys can have any result depending on who and where you interview of course.
So much like any poll numbers can easily be skewed. It sounds like the polling company attempts to ensure a balanced urban and rural selection and balance between states and DC (which is sort of an imaginary 51st state if you will)
Here is how the company said this poll was taken:
Gallup interviews U.S. adults aged 18 and older living in all 50 states and the District of Columbia using a dual-frame design, which includes both landline and cellphone numbers. Gallup samples landline and cellphone numbers using random-digit-dial methods. Gallup purchases samples for this study from Survey Sampling International (SSI). Gallup chooses landline respondents at random within each household based on which member had the next birthday. Each sample of national adults includes a minimum quota of 70% cellphone respondents and 30% landline respondents, with additional minimum quotas by time zone within region. Gallup conducts interviews in Spanish for respondents who are primarily Spanish-speaking.
Source:https://www.gallup.com/175307/gallup-poll-social-series-methodology.aspx
There's still a self-sorting selection bias, I imagine. The kind of batshit insane person that both will answer their phone when it's an unknown number, and will then go on to answer a survey after they pick up the call.
I'm only kind of joking here.
I stopped at a mall one day to kill an hour before my A+ certification test. I was asked to do a movie trailer survey, but since I was checked out thinking of the exam questions the surveyor pretty much answered the questions for me.
The only other time I answered my phone was as a teen for some gas price survey in the 90's as I craved ANY human interaction
I never got the point of civil pride. I was born and raised in a third world country, and people left and right were saying how proud they are to be from there. The fuck y’all proud of? Trash everywhere? Tourists getting scammed and harassed? Your own government making people “disappear”? Your president building unnecessary bridges and crippling the economy?
It always sounded so stupid honestly
Yo fellow bridge president haver.
Older Gen Xers as well. Actually, can’t really remember ever being proud to be an American.
Oh, no, I'm Canadian, eh!
I bet you are sorry
I am proud, but by no means "extremely" proud to be American. I think a lot of European countries have a chiller attitude when it comes to national pride. They do have it, but with a few exceptions, they're not too in-your-face about it. And they're much more willing to recognize their shortcomings.
In the US you get these "America is the best country on earth" morons, as well as "all the world's ills are caused by evil US" morons. They're both stupid.
Agreed. I think it's also a bit different in Europe versus in the US because in Europe you are surrounded by people from other nationalities.
In Europe, where you're from is just matter-of-fact. It's in your language, food, culture, etc. So you normally don't fly your flags unless you're trying to make some sort of statement, and outside of sporting events, that statement is seldom good so people tend to avoid it.
The US is a bit different in that being "American" is harder to define and has a history littered with controversy about who counts and who doesn't. People have different ideas about what being American means, and so patriotism has been weaponized to support one cause against another.
because in Europe you are surrounded by people from other nationalities
Excuse me but what? Europe is hardly a diverse place.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-diverse-countries
"By Gören's measure, the world's most culturally diverse country is the African nation of Chad, which counts more than 100 ethnic groups among its 8.6 million residents. Chad is also Africa's fifth-largest country by area, spanning over 495,624 square miles, which has enabled Chad's ethnic groups to live and operate autonomously despite several attempts to unify them. Most of the 100 languages spoken in Chad are Nilo-Saharan and Afro-Asiatic in origin and do not overlap with ethnic group identities. Arabic, Sara, and French are common across the country, especially Arabic, an important commercial language.
African countries often rank highly in studies of cultural diversity thanks to their many tribal groups and languages. In fact, Canada is the only western country among the top 20 most diverse countries."
Sadly, the USA lost its former glory. Slowly it's marching towards to the inevitable end.
Its glory was always manufactured. There was never a shining city on a hill because it started with slavery, it still has it for prisoners, and there's still a lack of parity between white and non-white people. And then there's all the people America has killed in all of its pointless wars. Maybe you could make a piss-poor argument that Americans could be proud of the Constitution as a revolutionary founding document, but that's about it. Even there, black people are 3/5ths of a white person.
America has always been a sham.
EDIT: You people downvoting me know it too. You just won't admit it to yourselves. That's why you're downvoting and not giving any counter-arguments about America's greatness. Shameful.
Don’t forget the massive amount of genocide U.S.A. has committed. Both on our own soil, and while playing puppet master in other countries (for their natural resources, or to instill govt US can control).
I’m sorry. USA has never been great. Maybe if you’re white and rich it is, but at what cost.
I'm ready for our A.I. overlords to just take control at this point
Grateful to be born here and it's the safest place to be if another World War pops off or something. The older I get, the more appealing getting a secluded cabin in the woods or a tropical island sounds. I am ashamed to be American.
it’s the safest place to be if another World War pops off or something.
New Zealand would like a word.
True haha, but they're pretty close to China and Japan. Not an ideal place to be when China goes crazy (er).
We've got something like the largest 3 navies and air forces in the world between all of our branches, and the most cutting edge military tech. Also, after these Congressional hearings over the past week or so, we apparently have alien tech on our side too lmao.
Personally, I'm halfway hoping for a civil war or, preferably, the South just splits off into it's own shithole again. But I wouldn't mind seeing us finish what Sherman started.
Yeah, I can't say I'm proud at this point, though I'm not devastated or embarrassed, either. I think I could be proud again, but we'd have to halt our military-industrial-complex and political elites from continuing to engage us in proxy wars, to start.
Like someone else said I'm greatful for where I was born and the circumstances I have. It's the need for continuous improvement that causes this.
There has been a great disdain for a 40 year live to work lifestyle in America for a century now that I think can be cured with using the land in a more efficient manner, and giving people more options than they have through monopoly companies today. China just said fuck it everyone's limited in video game time and you need to focus on studies.
The ideas I have are too large to be conveyed in some quick text post, but I see there still being room to innovate and also bring a brighter more sustainable, proud culture in USA out. It will take money time and resources, and the forming of a new mindset for continuous improvement rather than continuous consumption.
So 500 different people surveyed yearly for the last 8 years totals 4,000 individuals. The article also has no mentions of location which would be a major big factor.
You can't apply a survey of 4,000 to a country of 329 Million. I learned this is fucking 10th grade psychology. I dislike misleading articles.
Something, something, statistic math...
No, I agree. It feels like a self-serving survey.
They shouldn't be. It's a shit country
To be fair, most young people aren't from the USA, so this tracks.
What I'm really curious about is how many young people are proud to be British. I myself never really felt any pride based on where I happened to be born, it was just a fluke of existence after all. There are great things about my country, but they're balanced out by bad things, which is true of most Western nations. We're alas, pretty imperfect beings.
To be fair, the headline is shitty. It means most American young people. I just didn't want to change the headline because we don't tend to editorialize in this community.
Young people are no longer majority whit e so that probably helps.
This just in: “most young people are not Americans”
That's pathetic.
If you are so one dimensional to where you can't separate politics (which I am sure it a large part of this) with everything else, then that is a YOU problem. There are plenty of things that the US needs to fix, but show me one country that doesn't. The fact that young people are too lazy or too out of touch to understand that is pathetic.
This is a marker of increased civic engagement among young people. How is that a demonstration of laziness?
Those people should try to live in other parts of the world first. We have it good. So good. There are a handful of countries that are pretty decent but they lack economic opportunity, diversity, etc. You can't have everything.
Economic opportunity hasn't meaningfully existed in America for decades.
Why not, isn't the point of society for everyone to have what they need?
You can't have everything. No country is perfect but America is better off than most countries if we account for all the factors. Coming from a country with no political freedom, I am proud to be an American. There are a few youtubers who hated the US whwn they were young and went to live abroad for a decade only to come back to the US enlightened. I take it most of these polls are people that never lived abroad.
Incredibly, people in USA are so self centered and egotistical that they forget that north America and south America and central America exists, and not only that, they seem to forget that we are all Americans. So this poll title is not only inexact, it's also showcasing a level of hypocrisy and self entitlement that was never thought to be possible.
What's your alternative? Other countries have similar one-word names for their citizens, "Italians," "Japanese," "Mexicans", etc. United-Statesians? Then we might get the complaint that many other countries are made of smaller states too! Let's go for "citizens of the United States of America," that's nice and short. I get that Central/South America exists, but let us have the word, there's nothing else which sounds good.
You can call yourselves united statesians, that's shorter, north Americans it's good too. Gringos is pretty funny and Yankees as well haha
More proof FlyingSquid is nothing but a glowy.
18% still too high
For a person who makes automated bots to post shitty content (flyingsquid) You clearly have no principals, so according to what, makes it too high?
You should be proud of being American.
Ain't nobody going to take that away from me. I can just as easily be proud of being American as I can admit we have many issues to fix, but the general trend in years to be an edgelord and shit all over the US is getting real old.