Fediverse memes @feddit.uk Blaze (he/him) @feddit.org 3d ago

Still a mystery to this day

Context

List of instances defederating from Threads, the Meta microblogging platform: https://fedipact.veganism.social/
At the moment, Threads have incomplete federation with Fediverse microblogging instances: https://fediversereport.com/last-week-in-fediverse-ep-86/
Another meme about Threads: https://feddit.uk/post/18194873
Threads does not currently federate with link aggregators (Lemmy, Piefed)
Threads could work with the microblogging part of Mbin

The main arguments for people to defederate are

"Embrace, extend, and extinguish" strategy: https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html
A potential federation with Threads (should Thread decide to implement it) would overwhelm Lemmy/Mbin/Piefed with millions of users (compared to the 40k monthly current active users), transforming those platforms into a threaded version of Facebook
Defederating preventively costs nothing

LW stance: https://lemmy.world/post/1274909?scrollToComments=true

96 comments

I have yet to see any threads content anyway.
- Exactly. I still don't know what the whole kerfuffle is about.
  
  One concern is that since threads has a massive userbase and similar volume of content, it is basically a full reservoir and when it starts to federate content it will be like the dam bursting. Even if there is a need for a user on lemmy.world to do something to start federating content, like subscribing to communities, but all it would take is a bot that subscribes to a bunch of popular content to both fill the All feed and prompt a massive number of API calls.
  
  If the hardware is up to the task, the other concern is the threads content overwhelming existing communities, and since a bunch of meta content is bot driven and malicious that would be a crazy amount of moderation that is likely needed to keep it from causing issues and driving away the existing userbase.
  
  Lemmy is niche and therefore is heavily populated by techies but more specifically lemmy is open source so these techies are specifically the type who like open source stuff. Threads and the corporation responsible for it have a financial incentive to oppose open source projects like this. So the community most ideologically tied to lemmy want nothing to do with it. They want to preserve their space that they have made as free of the influences of capital as possible. The very existence of threads is a threat.
  
  There's lots of things I've never witnessed but is against as a matter of principle.
  
  It's about literally nothing. People just (rightfully) hate Meta so they cry wolf for no reason. Try looking for Meta users on Mastodon, you won't find almost any. Most thread users don't know what the fediverse is, don't care about it and don't want to know. Threads has likely already more users than the whole fediverse. Their base is already bigger of what they should theoretically "expand and extinguish". There is absolutely no reason for them to care about the fediverse more other than some niche PR.
  
  The EEE case never made sense from the beginning in this context, but people are still repeating it like a mantra. They are taking an emotional approach to a rational issue. Funnily enough, many of them are probably unable to understand how people could vote for Trump...
  
  Also I don't understand the problem at all. It's not like instances can't defererate later if an issue arise. We were the niche from the start, and they already had all the users they could ever need. And ongoing project was just easier to implement compared to developing a platform from scratch, that's all.
- The best if you don't have to. If you thought Twitter's nonexistent moderation was bad, then get ready for Meta's moderation.
  
  People can post trans suicide memes, people can post outright hate speech, no action. Call a "moderate conservative" a "mean person", racist, etc., action within 24 hours, multiple-day ban.
  
  Ban, you say?
  
  @ZILtoid1991
  
  If you thought Twitter’s nonexistent moderation was bad, then get ready for Meta’s moderation.
  
  To be fair, there is no global moderation on the fediverse. Anyone can start up their own instance with their own rules, or lack thereof. But that is also a plus since you or your server administrator decide how to moderate content, rather than depending on the decisions of some mega company's moderation team.
- So it's working.
We should be careful after looking at what happened with XMPP
- What happened to XMPP
  
  Google embraced it.
Hexbear? EW.

Also they don't actually federate anything, especially not with Lemmy as federation with Lemmy is fucked up even with mastodon, misskey and basically all the other services. Kbin was the only somewhat working other service, but from what I've seen its abandoned.
- I came here to tell you that [email protected] is actually quite nice. I was going to say, by the way, that I also went there to talk with them about politics recently, got about the reaction you'd expect, and peaced out, but as long as you don't do that, you can enjoy the nice artwork.
  
  And then, I realized that I haven't seen any of the art for a few days.
  
  Yep! My whole instance is defederated, I think. I wrote a total of five messages.
  
  I think they're a little thin-skinned lol.
  
  I also went there to talk with them about politics recently, got about the reaction you’d expect, and peaced out, but as long as you don’t do that, you can enjoy the nice artwork.
  
  Not worth it.
  
  Absolutely not worth it and I'm staying in my savespace they defederated. We are better.
Threads.net federation status on major Lemmy instances based on blocklist info:

Awful.systems - Blocked

Beehaw.org - Blocked

Blahaj.zone - Blocked

DBZer0 - Blocked

Dubvee.org - Blocked

Eco.br - Blocked

Feddit.org - Blocked

Feddit.nl - Blocked

Feddit.uk - Blocked

Hexbear.net - Blocked

JLai.lu - Blocked

Leminal.space - Blocked

Lemmy.best - Blocked

Lemmy.ca - Blocked

Lemm.ee - Blocked

Lemmings.world - Blocked

Lemmyf.uk - Blocked

Lemmygrad.ml - Blocked

Lemy.lol - Blocked

Lemmy.ml - Blocked

LemmyNSFW.com - Blocked

Lemmy.one - Blocked

Lemmy.zip - Blocked

Literature.cafe - Blocked

Mander.xyz - Blocked N

Midwest.social - Blocked

Pawb.social - Blocked

Quokk.au - Blocked

Reddthat - Blocked

Sh.Itjust.works - Blocked

SLRPNK.net - Blocked

Szmer.info - Blocked

Tchncs.de - Blocked

Aggregatet.org - Not Found

Aussie.zone - Not Found

Feddit.cl - Not Found

Feddit.it - Not Found

Futurology.today - Not Found

Infosec.pub - Not Found

Lemmy.one - Not Found

Lemmy.pt - Not Found

Monyet.cc - Not Found

SDF.org - Not Found

Lemmy.world - Linked

Sopuli.xyz - Linked

Also, in memoriam:

Feddit.ch - Blocked
Is it really a mystery? Ruud explained why this has not been done, why don't you add his explanation to the context here? Don't tell me you have never heard about it.
- Found it, added to the OP
  
  https://lemmy.world/post/1274909?scrollToComments=true
I'm pretty sure LW is trying to be Threads, or at least grow into some version of it. Why is, as you said, a mystery.

https://fedihosting.foundation/lw-team/#org-chart
At the moment, it is more a gesture of support for our micro-blogging cousins but still...
Thread does not currently federate with link aggregators (Lemmy, Mbin, Piefed)

It federates with MBin, recently Fedia defederated Threads, but before that I could follow and interact with Threads accounts, and it actually worked
- Thanks for the clarification
sheesh, must be bad if even hexbear is doing it!
We gotta avoid meta collecting data on the users of the fediverse.
- Bruh you know you can literally just download any lemmy data right now?
  
  That's why I didn't mention data collection in the reasons. Everything here can be parsed by thousands of instances. The issue is the EEE, and flooding the platform with millions of users coming from Facebook
- Oh no, imagine someone being able to see data that you publicly posted on the internet!
  
  @xigoi The horror!!!!
- No one read this if you read this it's a crime and my dad's lawyer is gonna stick his tongue in your ear
  
  @HeyThisIsntTheYMCA Be careful. Some people might take your dad's lawyer up on that.
Its possible to convince me to move to another instance if anybody can recommend one with the following:

Anti-Tankie sentiment/rules/regulation (fuck those fake communists flooding the feed with spam 24/7)

Fairly active community

General use instance, not one with a specific agenda

But otherwise I guess I'd probably just stop using lemmy altogether when threads hits World.
- Sopuli.xyz has blocked both lemmygrad and hexbear. You can block lemmy.ml in your user settings, that should set you up.
  
  About the active community, not sure what you mean, as exporting and importing your settings would keep you subscribed to the same communities that your current account, and sopuli is large enough to have the same All feed than LW
  
  "fairly active community" in this context means more than just 100 accounts moderated by 1 guy in a basement with a lot of spiders in it
  
  No offense intended to that man and his 100 users, just doesn't seem like a very good longterm solution. Much of the internet today is transient and impermanent.
- pick two.
  
  fr fr
- PieFed.social, Mbin, or use one of Sync or Connect that can actually block tankie users (edit: to be clear I mean users from known tankie instances, so that you don't have to identify and block people slowly one by one) - Lemmy's "block" doesn't block hardly anything at all, as you still see them, they can downvote you, generate notifications, etc. Read more here.
  
  You may also want to block certain news and political communities in favor of better ones that are not so filled with toxicity and misinformation regardless of whether the content comes from certain instances.
  
  I have been blocking people on Jerboa (which as far as I guess is just normal Lemmy blocking) and I don't get notifications or see people I've blocked.
Dang it I was on lemmy.wtf and that one has been down for days now. Now you’re telling me this one will get flooded with “tweets”? Do I have to pack up my shit again? We’ll see how bad it will get.

Edit: it’s up again. It is too unreliable though.
- Lemmings.world defederates threads: https://lemmings.world/instances
  
  Ah, great misread my instance 😄
- I've been here a year and I still don't get how lemmy works. lol
  
  Apparently I'm on the world one. No idea what impact that has, I just remember it being the easiest to join
  
  It's like email sort of. I'm on programming.dev. When I post this comment it will be sent to programming.dev. Asynchronously (but still fairly soon) lemmy.world will scrape it from programming.dev (this is called "federation"). When you log into lemmy.world your inbox will show you this message notification.
  
  You never directly interact with any server other than your home instance.
So if Meta continues to share defederated without acknowledgement from the source, wouldn’t that just put lemmy and mastodan on top?
A great reminder, that I will never understand how this site works. Isn't lemmy.world like the main page? That's what shows up on my Sync app.
- Lemmy is like email, and lemmy.world is like your email provider. Sync is like Outlook
  
  lemmy.world is like Hotmail - an early adopter that did rather well.
- No, .world is not anything like a 'main page'. It's just the largest "instance".
  
  Lemmy isn't even really a site, it's more like what email is - a data exchange protocol.
  
  You see mostly .world content because you share that domain, and they've "blocked" a lot of other domains.
  
  You can make an account at any-other instance and see a lot of other content. Lemmy.world has "blocked" (defederated) with a lot of instances, so you're not seeing everything.
  
  Sync is just an app that lets you view your account content (similar to how gmail the app lets you view your email content).
  
  ~~Lemmy~~ ActivityPub
- Different websites show the same content.
  
  https://lemm.ee/c/[email protected] shows the community we are in from another instance, Lemm.ee.
  
  There is no "main page", different instances host different communities and users, but everything is still connected by default (sometimes instance disagree and prefer to block each other)
- I’m not tech savvy but this image from the welcome to lemm.ee post helped me understand it way better than the email example
  
  So if lemmy.world has defederated with many other instances, would that mean that clicking 'All' in the example provided won't show content from those instances if your account comes from lemmy.world?
- Lemmy.world is one of many lemmy instances. Any Lemmy instance will show posts on their “all” page from instances they’re federated with. Generally, you can subscribe to and comment in federated communities.
  
  Depending on your viewer/app, you’ll see the instance following an @ sign. For example, username [email protected] means that account is on the sh.itjust.works instance. Similar for communities.
  
  May have missed some finer points but that’s generally how it works.
- It's the biggest instance, and the one you signed* up at, so in essence, for you it is. However the content you see there will be made up of not only users and communities from Lemmy.world but also from all the instance they're federated with. I'm registered elsewhere but you'll still get this reply.
  
  Edit: i.e. I also use Sync but it says sh.itjust.works
  
  I'm a .world user just because it had a lot of users when I signed up, but I've seen some hate thrown at it recently. Is there a legit reason I should consider switching to another instance, or is it just hyperbole? If I did, would I be able to migrate my account and its post/comment history (not that I really have much of a history at all, I just lurk mainly) or would that be stuck on .world forever?
- There was only ever one "main lemmy" instance, back in the days when Lemmy.ml was presented as the official flagship instance on the official lemmy project page by the official developers. And was the biggest instance that absolutely dominated the lemmyverse.
  
  I don't miss those days.
The threads hate is so fucking stupid. Companies getting involved with Lemmy would be awesome, mostly because it's a replacement for discord. The whole EEE thing is FUD, open source largely solved that problem. The people with control aren't just going to give Meta they keys anyway. Some corporate involvement could help solve some real issues with making hosting easier, reducing storage needs, and increasing federation throughput.

Corporate instances would be awesome to add to my feed for the things I want to see and it would be a way to attract people to get the more niche communities. The tools already exist for the people who don't want to see that content. If for example steam community discussions became Lemmy communities that would be a huge win for the platform.

Also threads isn't even the same federation model as Lemmy anyway and it's unlikely to ever actually federate to here anyway.
- Threads hate isn’t stupid. Consider for a moment the literally dozens of people online without FB or Insta accounts. That is a choice. It’s nice to have somewhere that doesn’t have those users, with that groomed content, pumped for profit. Meta exists to make money - the Zuckdroid wants a finger in the fediverse pie to maximise profit for the share holders; not because he’s gone all in and techno-philanthropy. Having said that, the dilution of quality and nuance his user base “could” bring is the real worry though.
  
  Federation has much less to do with profit, and more to do with showing the EU that they are attempting to embrace open standards. Everyone slamming the door on them gives them a way to justify keeping their wallet garden.
- Part of the appeal of lemmy is the distance it keeps from corporate interests. Inviting them would no doubt encourage sponsored content and advertising.
  
  Yes it can happen anyway, but I refuse to roll out the red carpet for corporate schlock.
  
  Which can easily be ignored if you want to. You can not subscribe or even block instances you don't like.
- Lemmy is a replacement for discord???
Wat?
- I tried to provide some context in the OP, what questions do you have?

96 comments