Indiana police have dogs that sniff specifically for cash at the US’s 2nd biggest FedEx hub, then they simply keep the money
Indiana police have dogs that sniff specifically for cash at the US’s 2nd biggest FedEx hub, then they simply keep the money
This isn’t crime fighting. It’s an actual crime — a blatant, naked theft carried out by officers, Libertarian Party Chair Evan McMahon writes.
cross-posted from: https://slrpnk.net/post/13145612
(edit) Would someone please ship some counterfeit money through there and get it confiscated, so the police can then be investigated for spending counterfeit money?
ACAB, but that headline gave me a chuckle, at just how fucking blatantly criminal, and more importantly immoral, but also so so ridiculous they are. Can't you just picture a bunch of cops in full tactical gear standing around in some room in a post office, patting each other on the back as they successfully empty a bunch of birthday cards in to a pile.. 😂
(having read the article, and knowing cops, I know there were serious amounts of money stolen, this was just the image I got from the headline)
My first thought was the same thing. But then I realized that birthday cards go in envelopes. Usually they go through USPS, not FedEx.
That's a very good point that I completely missed lol
They probably weigh the birthday cards to see if anything seems worth opening.
True, though I can also see it being a lot more about the taking for them, than it is about the money. Plus, cops aren't known for liking any extra work, or making good decisions..
Do you think the wall behind them has one poorly drawn ‘fundraising goal meter’ with big ticket items on it, like machine gun robot dogs, amwraps, machine gun drones, tanks, next-gen stingray devices, or networked city-wide camera systems so they can spy on their ex-girlfriends; or do you think each officer has their own chart, with smaller, more personal items, like shooting targets of POC and pets, vaguely white supremacist decals for their cars, training sessions on how to manufacture evidence, or discrete GPS tracking, first aid kits, and bruise concealing makeup for their wives?
Oof.. Maybe a mixture of both? Like at the ticket "shop" at the arcade, so the robot dog is the super mega prize hanging at the top as the unattainable temptation, but most pigs only collect enough for the minor prizes, and can't figure out that pooling tickets would get them better things..
Indiana law requires any assets seized in a civil forfeiture case to go directly to the school fund — likely to mitigate the moral hazard and incentive to steal citizens’ assets — but little money is actually going to that fund. Instead, police departments are keeping it for themselves, and a 2019 Indiana Supreme Court case upheld that, allowing police, prosecutors or private lawyers contracted to carry out the cases to keep a minimum of 90%.
Naked corruption.
Something similar happened to me. Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) seized money from a bank transfer paying rent to my landlord (years ago). It took five days of calls to the bank to find out why the transfer didn't go through. I got a case number and filled out paperwork disputing it (with OFAC) and the letter I received in response said they had no record of the case.
The best I could hypothesize what happened was that because my landlord had a Middle Eastern-sounding name, maybe this was suspected to relate to terrorism. I gave up. I knew it wasn't worth my time to pursue because to get justice, I'd have to invest more time and energy than the cash was worth. I nearly got evicted because of this shit and I still judged the bureaucracy too great to address (I think I made the right choice; no sense fighting the government unless my freedom is on the line or it's some huge sum of money).
I got money orders at the post office and deposited them directly into my landlord's bank account after that. Huge pain in the ass to make sure my money went where I wanted. I live in a building owned by a corporation, now. I don't think I'd rent from a private citizen again because of that bullshit. (It's not like I'll ever own a home, given that I like living in the Bay Area.)
Since it’s a small amount of money, the legal process would be with small claims court. You don’t need a lawyer for that. Small claims is cheap and easy going. It’s typically under $100 to file (which you get back if you win) and in some states a registered letter is sufficient to serve the other party.
You would not want to sue OFAC though. In this case you would ideally keep a paper trail of your payment attempt and carry on. Give your landlord the proof of payment (attempt) and wait for the landlord to act against you. That’s the easiest.. you wait for the court date and show up with proof of your attempt to pay and a copy of your landlord’s payment procedure (which you followed). OFAC apparently did a money grab on the landlord, not you, so you would come away clean so long as you paid as per your landlord’s instructions.
That's not going to work for long. Best you're going to get is a stay until you pay. Might as well make it right with the landlord while you actually do take OFAC to small claims court. Because they'll find it then.
But also, this is what your Congress critter is for. All kinds of things get magically resolved when the congressional office of the honorable so and so makes an inquiry.
"I don't think I'd rent from a private citizen again because of that bullshit."
And this is where they won.
Yes, handily.
That’s wild!
You ever check OFAC’s Specially Designated Nationals list for your landlord?
Two plot twists that come to mind: landlord was actually ISIS with a great cover story, bank manager stole the money and made up a case number.
So people should sue FedEx and let FedEx either stop transporting through the state or sue the state with those deep pockets. Or idk maybe the doj should fucking take this up as they are now fucking with interstate commerce and committing felonies as a state.
The institute for justice FIRE and a couple other major civil rights organizations have been working working on getting civil forfeiture over turned and made unconstitutional for decades now
I’ve been boycotting FedEx for over a decade. Not for this reason but for the other reasons I mention in this thread.
It’s quite hard because many sellers do not disclose who they use for shipping. I can sometimes add a comment to my order saying “Do not use FedEx. If that’s the only option then cancel my order.” This makes online shopping tedious, so I’ve been driven to just shop locally.
Is it illegal to mail cash or something? Or are they just blatantly stealing from people?
It's not illegal. It's also not illegal for the police to claim it's criminal profits and seize it. The courts decided your money, (and other property), does not enjoy the same rights you do. So you have a right against search and seizure but your money and other property does not. This does three things. It opens your stuff up to be seized without a warrant, it makes it a civil case to get your stuff back, and you have to prove you're not a criminal and your stuff wasn't used by criminals.
It is absolutely unconstitutional on the grounds that it's a naked evasion of our 4th, 5th, and 6th amendment rights. But good luck explaining that to the guys with the guns.
No it's not illegal. Yes they are blatantly stealing. Fuck cops. Fuck Republicans voting laws to allow this shit.
It is against FedEx policy. These are terms you would agree to if signing for a shipment.
Oh yes, Civil Forfeiture. But I'm sure that they would never use the counterfeit money to buy new toys for their precinct.
You mean like... let's say... A Margarita machine?
That movie was pretty good.
I bet those good boys spend it all in toys and snacks. Lol
Edit: Nvm the dogs don't get to keep the money.
So it is theft twice then. First from the sender, then from the good boys and girls who find it.
Edit: Nvm the dogs don’t get to keep the money.
I’m sure they get plenty of doggie treats, likely procured with civil forfeitures. Which motivates the dogs to find more. I’m not the least bit worried that the dogs are unfairly exploited from the dog’s standpoint.
Edit: the following only applies to USPS, so it's probably a good idea to only use USPS for mail.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1708
Whoever steals, takes, or abstracts, or by fraud or deception obtains, or attempts so to obtain, from or out of any mail, post office, or station thereof, letter box, mail receptacle, or any mail route or other authorized depository for mail matter, or from a letter or mail carrier, any letter, postal card, package, bag, or mail, or abstracts or removes from any such letter, package, bag, or mail, any article or thing contained therein, or secretes, embezzles, or destroys any such letter, postal card, package, bag, or mail, or any article or thing contained therein; or
Whoever steals, takes, or abstracts, or by fraud or deception obtains any letter, postal card, package, bag, or mail, or any article or thing contained therein which has been left for collection upon or adjacent to a collection box or other authorized depository of mail matter; or
Whoever buys, receives, or conceals, or unlawfully has in his possession, any letter, postal card, package, bag, or mail, or any article or thing contained therein, which has been so stolen, taken, embezzled, or abstracted, as herein described, knowing the same to have been stolen, taken, embezzled, or abstracted—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
A cop who commits a crime is a criminal. A cop who commits a felony crime is a felon. Arrest them.FedEx is a private company providing delivery services. I’m not a lawyer but I’m guessing the statute you’re referencing only applies to USPS.
However, that is extremely difficult, because the assets themselves — inanimate objects — are listed as the defendants, and such cases often tie the money up in long and challenging legal proceedings.
The money is being treated as a defendant.
No surprise that FedEx isn't union.
It's a massive violation of our Constitutional rights, but it turns out it is fine to do because of playing some games pretending the object is the defendant.
The money is being treated as a defendant.
Saw this shit in a movie last week, it sounded too dumb to be true...
I too watched ‘Rebel Ridge’ last week on Netflix.
First money being speech, now they're giving money rights! /s
I could not reach that enshitified article but judging from the title, FedEx’s contemp for Black Lives Matter is consistent with their extreme right politics:
- FedEx is an ALEC member (thus opposes labor rights, women’s rights, environmental protection, gun control, taxation, consumer protection, financial regulation, public education, welfare…)
- FedEx used to give a discount to NRA members
- FedEx ships sharkfins, hunting trophies, and slave dolphins
- FedEx was founded by an ex military serviceman (a mostly right wing demographic)
Being on the extreme right would be consistent with BLM contempt. And indeed, fighting unions is FedEx’s core reason for being an ALEC member. Photos of DVDs were leaked and circulated on social media with FedEx on the label and some title like “how to mitigate unions”.
What are the dogs going to do with all that money?
Ironic, I just watched Rebel Ridge which outlines this exact problem with civil asset forfeiture.
I was about to watch that tonight. I just want to see the scenes where the cops realize they fucked with modern day Rambo.
Who knows the type of bitches those dogs are dropping that cash on.
Pack your shit up tight, and send it with USPS. They need a reason (real suspicion) to open your package, so don't give them any.
But wouldn’t a particular dog with particular training who then becomes very interested in your unopened USPS package be a real reason to open the pkg?
USPS is federally regulated and have different protections. Mail shipped through USPS cannot be opened by anyone other than the recipient for any reason besides a warrant. A dog indicating on your package would mean nothing to postal inspectors. Fedex and UPS are private companies and your packages do not have the same protections.
Only if the dog is meant to detect illegal substances. The USPS system doesn't allow local police to go fishing.
I have never heard of dogs being used to mass inspect USPS packages. I'm unsure if that would qualify as a reason for opening USPS packages. I can tell you as someone who lives in a community infamous as the source of many illicit packages (and the destination of the subsequent illicit payments), common knowledge here is to use USPS.
Cash is commonly banned by most logistics companies. As it is openly stated that it will not be carried by FedEx, it’s no stretch that the police will consider it contraband.
Source: I work for a competing company that also will not ship cash. Any of our employees will tell you no. Ship cash at your own risk.
As it is openly stated that it will not be carried by FedEx, it’s no stretch that the police will consider it contraband.
It is a stretch. Enforcing contractual agreements is not the job of the police. And it’s also a stretch to say the police are looking to protect the contractual interests of FedEx.
It’s also strangely inconsistent with FedEx’s anything goes practices, whereby FedEx is known for shipping morally dubious payloads:
- #sharkFins (illegal in countries that have a shred of respect animal welfare and the environment)
- hunting trophies
- slave dolphins
Normally, FedEx could normally claim that they are simply maximizing the bottom line in their duty to their greedy shareholders. But the cash ban is not consistent with that. Unless FedEx believes that anyone who loses an insured pkg would claim the pkg included cash as a way to max out the insurance payout. But in that case, it is not in FedEx’s business interest to enforce the policy -- just to be able to point to the policy when an insurance claimant say cash was lost.
(update) In fact, police are preventing crime prevention by grabbing the cash. This inspired me to propose a new rule.
Makes one wonder how many other teams there are. FedEx, UPS, USPS all have multiple hubs. If your own doesn't have a hub, what does it have?
I'd say there's a good chance this occurs at every logistics hub.
Most criminals know to use USPS as unlike others a warrant is required to open any mail.
Are there actually legitimate use cases to send larger amounts of cash in a regular package? Typically, such packages are not insured or only up to a rather small amount. So, if you want to transfer a large amount in cash, most people would probably use a dedicated cash transfer service. Or even more likely, do it electronically.
Or do they also seize small amounts of money from birthday presents and christmas cards?
It doesn't matter. The point of the way our laws are supposed to work is that the government can't go looking at people and their stuff without suspicion. The stuff itself cannot be the suspicion unless its only common purpose is criminal. That's why a stack of money should be safe in plain sight, but not a bong.
I don't know about the US but in Germany the context of things is definitely considered to judge if something is common or suspicious.
It's perfectly legal to own a clown mask and to wear it during carnival would be common. If you wear one outside carnival and walk towards the door of a bank, that's pretty suspicious.
It's perfectly legal to stand around in public. If you do it alone, at night in an area that's known to have many drug dealers and you suddenly start to run away if the police strolls along, then that's suspicious again.
And if the police considers you to be suspicious, they will ask what you're doing and to explain your behavior. They won't straight away throw you into jail obviously but they have the right to do a routine check.
For me, the cash in a regular package is really similar. If they seize your cash and you can proof that it was a weird way to pay for a car or that your aunt forgot her pile of cash when she visited you and you send it after her, then I'm quite sure, they'll have to hand it back. If you object to explain who sent you $10.000 and why, then I agree to find that pretty suspicious.
Assuming criminals do use FedEx etc. to transfer illegally earned money anonymously from one place to another, what would be the alternative to intervene? Or would you just let it happen?
Low value foreign currency, i.e. for collectors?
You can buy a lot of issues in packs of 100 or even 1,000 notes for a few tens of dollars, and it's not worth calling Brinks for some old Soviet roubles or Zimbabwe dollars. Would likely still smell like money.
Okay, valid point. But is the police seizing such packages? If we assume the police is stealing it out of greed, that wouldn't be too profitable for them to steal 5 USD in Zimbabwe dollars.
I thought they're confiscating cash with a higher value, like bundlSe of USD/CAD/EUR/AUD etc. In the article they wrote 6 million USD and on the picture I see only US notes as well. And if that's the case, I somewhat agree that that's a bit suspicious.
Still, they shouldn't just take and keep it, but if they confiscate it and then contact the recipient to explain the background of the transaction, I'd be fine with that.
If you carry large amounts of cash on a flight you also have provide reason and papertrail for that.
So, if you want to transfer a large amount in cash, most people would probably use a dedicated cash transfer service.
“most people”. Luckily we know that it’s an injustice to marginalize minority groups.
Problems with xfer services:
① fees
② privacyIt’s really absurd, but money transfer services often charge a percentage of the amount transferred (esp.if forex is involved), as if sending more money somehow costs them more electricity to transmit. I feel like I’m being ripped off when charged a percentage of money that moves and even if the price is reasonable I will reject that option on general principle.
You potentially pay more to the transfer company than a courrier and give up privacy on top of it.
③ shipping is faster than electronic payment (no joke!)
I shit you not. I tried a payment service once to send a few hundred to someone for a laptop. Two days later I got a fraud alert demanding that I call a number. I was interrogated:
- how do you know the recipient? What is your relationship to them?
- what are you buying?
- why are you buying it?
WTF? When I send money in the mail, the postal worker does not pull this shit and snoop on me. After the interrogation, it took another day or two for the money to reach the recipient. The post would have been faster and hassle free.
④ we now live in a frenzy of AML extremists coupled with the masses being pushover consumers who will go along with being cattled herded. Non-criminals are being harrassed, inconvenienced, forced to overshare information, and generally oppressed in this fishing for criminals which is being carried out with total disregard for colatteral damage to law-abiding people. Why? Lazy law enforcement. They want /their/ job to be convenient. They want evidence of crime to fall in their lap, rather than to do clever good investigative work.
⑤ a sender may have to ship something AND pay money. I know jewelers. It’s common for someone who is buying new jewelry to pay partially in scrap gold. They give the jeweler their unwanted jewelry which has a melt value. The jeweler reduces the price of the new jewelry by the value of the scrap gold. If you are shipping scrap gold, why make a separate trip to a money transfer service and pay more fees? It’s cheaper and easier to put cash in the pkg if you trust the jeweler. Or a customer might want the very same gold or stones their great grandmother wore to be made into something else.
A jeweler told me uninsured packages have a very high rate of loss. Couriers apparently know when jewelry is being shipped, at least when the sender is “Bob’s diamond shop”. Insurance works as a great deterrant. A courrier knows there will be an internal investigation when an insured pkg does not reach the recipient. They can only steal so many of them before a pattern emerges. Insurance is so reliable for jewelers shipping gold and precious stones, they would just as well trust it for cash.
Thanks a lot for the detailed answer! It helped me to better understand your perspective.
Regarding (1) I can somehow understand why it's often a percentage. The more valuable the goods that you transport, the higher the associated risks. Insurance costs are higher and also the employees are more endagered of being robbed.
Regarding (3) I would say that's only in very specific scenarios like international money transfer from/to sanctioned countries or if the recipient is on some kind of watch list. PayPal, Credit Card, Crypto Currency etc. should typically all process within seconds. International bank transfer also shouldn't take more than a few days. And if we're talking about delays caused by sanctions, then physical deliveries are affected as well.
What is still hard to understand for me is that people would send ANYTHING valuable in a non insured package, especially money. As you mentioned yourself in point (5), there's a huge risk of it being lost or stolen. Also independent of (potentially unlawful) police officers. Therefore, my intuitive feeling was, whoever is willing to take that risk, has a lot of money to transfer and is willing to lose some in favor to stay invisible.
If you use a courier service that's specialized on valuables which offers also insurance etc. that's a completely different story to me. But insured FedEx packages full of cash are still suspicious to me and I find it fair to question the legitimacy.