Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez came out in support of President Joe Biden amid growing calls in the Democratic Party for Biden to drop out of the 2024 race.
AOC is definitely a voice in politics I've come to respect. I can assume pretty confidently that her opinion is well founded and with the right intentions... if she thinks Biden is best option at this point, that tells me pretty conclusively that Biden is genuinely the best option at this point.
The debate shenanigans, the age, whatever: all of that is a fraction of a drop in the ocean compared to the shitstorm that would be Trump presidency. It doesn't matter if any of us like Biden. Do you want a literal fascist running the country? If no, vote Biden. If yes, abstain / vote for literally anyone else.
I've been making pitches for the libertarian party to my trumpanzee coworkers. It's a similar flavor of bullshit as the turds the GOP is already feeding them, so they're somewhat susceptible to it.
No chance in hell I'll be able to convince them to vote Biden, so burning a would-be Trump vote on the spoiler effect is the next best thing.
The DNC is going to run this playbook again in four years. Stuff some establishment democrat down our throats "for the fate of democracy". I agree that another Trump presidency would be terrible, but can the American people please get a real choice of which Democrat to vote for? Please DNC?
Probably. And when that time comes, I'll make the same pitch for whichever not-a-Nazi is running against the actual Nazi. Should it be better? Fuck yeah! But if we don't play along, we get actual Nazi. I suspect we'll rinse-and-repeat until we're extinct; but I'd prefer to spend that time with as few Nazis in power as possible.
Someone mentioned it in the thread about Elizabeth Warren supporting Biden. It isn't odd that smart, anti-wealthy, and anti-Trump at all costs progressives are backing Biden, and wealthy Democrat donors and centrist Democrats are demanding change.
These people see the risk a new candidate would bring. The wealthy just want someone who reflects their image. Either candidate doesn't really hurt their lifestyle.
Part of it has been that Biden has been implementing a lot of progressive policies. He may not be the perfect progressive candidate, but he is a lot better than other options.
It isn’t odd that smart, anti-wealthy, and anti-Trump at all costs progressives are backing Biden, and wealthy Democrat donors and centrist Democrats are demanding change.
The wealthy centrist Dems believe they're in an excellent position to foist an even bigger turd on the party (I've seen Joe Manchin and Michael Bloomberg and - of fucking course - Hillary Clinton floated as "moderate" replacements to Far-Left Super Radical Joe Biden).
The younger and less influential (although hardly anti-wealthy - AOC is a prodigious fundraiser who represents one of the richest districts in the nation) politicians who have already stacked up political favors with the incumbent don't want to see him casually replaced by an even more obnoxious neoliberal.
That doesn't make Biden a strong choice. It doesn't even make him an "anti-wealthy" choice (Biden was fully on board with the Wall Street bailouts under Bush and the Silicon Valley bailouts during his own term). It just makes him the "safe" choice for the AOC-aligned caucus, relative to an even more nakedly corporate convention insider pick.
Biden doesn't make policy decisions standing at podium reading a teleprompter. He sits in meeting and has discussions with advisors and has follow up discussions and rewrites policies and discusses votes and rewrites again with further discussions. That's who I'm voting for and I think he is still able to do that.
They know this already. They aren’t going to be educated on the matter. They’re not voting and working hard to convince others not to as well.
The best thing you can do is call this out when you see it. Ask them to answer how they’d prefer life under Trump’s thumb. Ask them who else could defeat Trump that is running right now. Ask them what are our other options. They’ll do their best to bullshit through responses, but at the end of the day-
They know we have none.
Ask them how they’re support a free Palestine, while being able to see Trump suggesting Israel “finish the job” but that is somehow not enough to vote against him.
These people cannot answer any of these questions in good faith. I’ve asked them, and tons of others have. They distract and counter with bad faith bullshit. Then they disappear- only to reappear elsewhere with the same bullshit.
You cannot reason with, or inform to educate them. They know the facts. And they’re here to urge you not to vote against Trump anyway.
Why is this particular political structure and electoral process and set of parties the best? Can't we be more creative? We can do so much more than vote in this same process which makes us choose the 'lesser evil' to save democracy, every election for decades now. I can't bring myself to legitimize the US and still feel a clean conscience any longer.
That there are a lot of bot accounts that can quickly inflame an issue with a pretty obvious grain of truth to it. And that there doesn't seem to be much of a response other than "Biden is better than Trump" or "I support Biden due to his past competence". Which feels like a very nothing burger of an answer, and instead gives plenty more questions rather than reassurance for Biden's campaign. Trump is an dangerous idiot and I'd be the first to say not vote for Trump, a frankly sane and common sentiment. Honestly, the more time goes on, the more it feels like the arguments that are posited for voting for Biden without answering basic questions actually feel like they are being posed by bot accounts.
To be fair "He is in this race and I support him" is like saying "He's one of the candidates of all time". It is a milquetoast, borderline sarcastic endorsement.
First- I actually really like seeing AOC not being one of those "burn the house down" politicians as I knew her when she started. It seems like she's learned what it takes to get a large group of people to do one thing, and outrage politics does not do that. Frankly this is the restraint I would look for in a future presidential nominee.
Second- at a base level I'm very for Biden stepping down and giving us the opportunity to escape this hellhole of an election cycle. John Stewart put it pretty well to the DNC- "Do you understand the opportunity you have here? Do you have any idea how thirsty Americans are for any hint of inspiration or leadership, and a release from this choice of a megalomaniac and a suffocating gerontocracy?"
Party mandate: After the midterm elections, the incumbent party holds more seats in the U.S. House of Representatives than after the previous midterm elections.
No primary contest: There is no serious contest for the incumbent party nomination.
Incumbent seeking re-election: The incumbent party candidate is the sitting president.
No third party: There is no significant third party or independent campaign.
Strong short-term economy: The economy is not in recession during the election campaign.
Strong long-term economy: Real per capita economic growth during the term equals or exceeds mean growth during the previous two terms.
Major policy change: The incumbent administration affects major changes in national policy.
No social unrest: There is no sustained social unrest during the term.
No scandal: The incumbent administration is untainted by major scandal.
No foreign/military failure: The incumbent administration suffers no major failure in foreign or military affairs.
Major foreign/military success: The incumbent administration achieves a major success in foreign or military affairs.
Charismatic incumbent: The incumbent party candidate is charismatic or a national hero.
Uncharismatic challenger: The challenging party candidate is not charismatic or a national hero.
If 5 or fewer of these statements are False, then it is predicted that the incumbent will win. His take is that replacing Biden will do nothing but make point 2 & 3 turn from True statements to False statements, and increase the chances of Trump winning.
While crystal balls are everywhere and you could point to other political scientists who would say different, I was looking for a decent take on the counterpoint. I would also say that in political science, we like to have tools to help us make predictions so we can make actions. Just going on deep gut feeling won't cut it. Having a tool whose measurements don't always align with how you feel an outcome should be doesn't necessarily mean the tool is bad, it means it works independently from your biases. If you watch the video, I think he puts it well as the election is a thumbs up or thumbs down on the party more than it is the individual leader. It might be a helpful thought exercise to change the words "Trump" to "Republican" and "Biden" to "Democrat" when discussing the race as charisma and celebrity only goes so far in politics, but that's what we get caught up in the most.
To some degree this is always going to be true when you elect a new person to a new position. Think of it as a video game enthusiast becoming an actual developer.
As someone playing a game, it's really easy to suggest ideas and changes and fixes which sound like simple common sense to do. When you actually see the intricate code however, and how it's structured and run, you realize all your ideas from before aren't as easy to implement as you thought. Your mindset evolves to instead focus on practical solutions which have clear ways to implement.
AOC adopting more practical positions is exactly what you want to see. It shows that she's thinking of how to get those goals done. Bernie operates much the same way.
What would be concerning is someone who goes to Congress for the first time and doesn't change. It would mean they're dishonest about what's actually realistic to get done, and they're just telling you what you want to hear so you'll vote for them.
This isn't really a progressive politics issue though. The alternative to Biden isn't a progressive, it's an establishment moderate who can reliably form a coherent sentence. I'm disappointed the people with the sharpest critiques of the decay in Democratic politics aren't taking on this fight, but it's not something I'd hold against them. I think whatever was said in that meeting convinced them that nothing would ever make Joe Biden resign. No influence campaigns, no public statements by politicians, no donor rebellions. He'll drive the car off the cliff before he gives up his ego, so they're just trying to see if somehow they can make it work.
I don't agree, but it's a reasonable choice to make if you fully believe the guy holding the party hostage will die before giving in.
Fuck Trump. But also, I think with divisions the way they are, we have to be careful how we engage with our criticisms. And my problem with calling Trump "white trash" is layered. First, white trash has classically been used to denigrate lower class white folks. There's more to unpack there than I want to tackle, but to oversimplify, I feel like it is unnecessarily classist and brings in race at the same time. I'm sure there are plenty of people who you could call white trash that aren't racist, traitorous, scam artists. Also, I would consider Trump either not lower class, or a class traitor. And on top of that, it kind of seems like the least concerning thing about him. Him being cringe or gross or just generally repugnant is so 2016. We're now in the midst of several global catastrophes that this animated blob of greed and hatred will almost certainly pour rocketfuel on.
Realistically, I’m not crazy about Biden, but if we wanted someone better we should have held primaries. Changing now is short sighted and won’t get us a more progressive candidate.
All we’ll get now is someone further to the right of Biden. It won’t be the electorate choosing a new Democratic nominee, it will be party insiders who choose someone even more out of touch than Biden.
Do you think "we" as voters didn't want a primary? It's party insiders the whole way. And if you vote for Biden anyways, you're saying "yeah, i liked how this worked just fine." DNC screwed bernie twice, and RFK, Marianne, and Dean this time. Regardless of who you would back ultimately, the DNC removes all democracy from the process then says they're saving democracy.
... cheerfully overlooking the fact that saying "we thought this was the guy 4 years ago but this other guy is definitely the one" has never gone well EVER?
It went so bad in 68, that we got Nixon.
If our goal this time around is "save democracy by not electing Trump", is it fun to risk certain loss by switching?
Take note how all the world politics experts that were yelling “gEnOciDe jOe”, are now somehow experts on cognitive function and one’s ability to run a political cabinet.
Also take note how seemingly overnight- they all shifted their concern to beating everyone over the head with reports on how Biden isn’t up for the job- despite the fact that we all know that news media is in the business to profit from dumbasses that eat this shit up.
This is an obvious movement to disrupt the election. VOTE LIKE LIVES DEPEND ON IT.
Their narrative is that they don’t want an old man incapable of making speeches, yet they’re fine to see for a rapist felon that spent the entire debate lying his ass off.
That honestly sounds rather perfunctory… and a lot of other statements I’ve seen lately have the same tone. I think everyone is holding their breath. We’ll see how the next couple weeks shake out.
I hope that the DNC is prepared to throw away yet another close election by insisting that running an 80 year old incumbent is better than literally anyone else. Their primary system is completely broken and so we will now be living perpetually subjugated to a small minority in this country.
Bad take. Biden clearly isn’t up for the job anymore. If it really was “just a cold” he would be out doing unscripted interviews and reassuring the public that he isn’t too confused to work after 5pm. The fact that he isn’t means his team thinks it’s more likely than not that he can’t actually convince the public that he’s still with it.
Putting someone else in is a risk but keeping him in is a bigger risk. Models are predicting a 60-70% chance of trump winning if the election was run today. This ignores that now the trump team and conservative media will now be pushing the age issue constantly. Who is going to be confident in Biden after he hides away from the public for the next few months and then drops out of the second debate?
Last, I’m deeply uncomfortable with the Democratic Party giving cover to a president that isn’t mentally fit for the job. There was so much talk about following norms and respecting the office of president while it was trump in the white house, but now some dems are openly saying they’re ok with Biden being controlled by his cabinet and family. Even if it all works out and Bidens cabinet runs the country for 4 more years it’s going to cast a long shadow on future elections where republicans can point to Biden as proof that democrats don’t respect the office and don’t even care if the nominee is competent.
He's currently in the job and things are going reasonably well. Do I wish he was more left wing? Yes, but he's been more left than any POTUS during my lifetime. Do I wish he would stop supporting Israel? Absolutely, this is a huge mark against him.
Maybe we can argue that we can see the writing on the wall and we think he won't be able to do the job, but to argue that he clearly can't requires ignoring the reality.
Trump, on the other hand, we had 4 years of and that was a disaster that ended with people attacking the capitol. So if we can say we know any of them is not up for the job, it's clear which way that should point.
1 if he can’t get up and speak coherently for an hour at a time I’d argue he actually isn’t doing the job. Communicating clearly and responding to crises at all hours is crucial to the job.
2 there’s little proof that Biden is actually the one calling the shots even ignoring his lack of public appearances
Fact is that, despite spending two campaigns saying the opposite as a tactic, Biden wouldn't lose any sleep over losing. He knows that, because he's rich and privileged in the US, he'll be ok when fascism comes.
Apparently he cares less about the vast majority of the population who emphatically WON'T be ok than he does about his own ego and career. Yet another reason why he's definitely the wrong man for the job and would have been even if he WASN'T on course to lose. Which he is.
I'm not a Biden fan, but sewing discontent is not helpful.
The "I would be at peace" thing is taken out of context as you well know. Biden knows as well as anyone how bad a Trump presidency would be, but how would you have him answer that question? The only possible answer is to say you'll give it your best and deal with the outcome.
I'm not sowing anything. My point is that the discontent is already there and it's only growing.
The "I would be at peace" thing is taken out of context as you well know
No. He said the words in the context of whether he would care much if he lost. That's how I presented it.
Biden knows as well as anyone how bad a Trump presidency would be
For most people, but not the ones he cares about the most: himself and his rich owner donors.
how would you have him answer that question?
"Yes, losing to the last president and first dictator of the United States of America would obviously be devastating. That's why I'm doing everything in my power to avoid it"
The only possible answer is to say you'll give it your best and deal with the outcome.
She knows she has little to gain personally from calling for Biden to drop out and potentially has a lot to gain if she sides with him and he ends up winning. She's a savvy political operator and deeply cynical.
It's definitely the right move for her at this point. If Biden steps aside (or dies) before the election, the Democrats aren't going to nominate someone who didn't back Biden. Publicly backing lets her stay on the team, and maybe one day have a shot at the Presidency herself (assuming we get more than four more years before fascism wins).
I’ll bet significant money if Biden remains the nominee that we will lose
In a repeat of 2016, we found the most beatable candidate in the Democratic Party and ran that person for President. sigh
(lol whew there is some serious vote manipulation going on around these parts. I hope admins begin implementing some safeguards soon).
There is a strong contingent of Blue MAGA on Lemmy. Anything even remotely critical of Our Dear Leader gets trashed, your account gets reported, and people spill out of the woodworking insisting that you are on the personal payroll of one Mr. V. Vladimirovich Putin or possibly the insidious Hand of the Dragon Himself, CCP Supervillain Xi Jinping.
AOC has been increasingly aligned with the Democratic Party elite these days. My guess is she’s wants to run for senate someday and needs to appear loyal to the people who could make or break her campaign. That said, I do think the kind of insider politics she seems to be engaging in is a betrayal of the progressive values she once held.
Well, honey, hes losing his ability to communicate clearly just as he should be at that age. Youre support of him is laudable but you gotta think about whats best for the 81 yr old man. The presidency is the absolute most stressful position anyone can undertake. Someone half bidens age would find it hyperaging lead to health issues that would detrimentally affect his skills at the job. Bidens results will be worse for both him and us. He is just too proud to admit it. Calmerheads need to work on him to make him see that he is not able to hold the reins anymore and should be about enjoying a well deserved retirement. We need someone that has their fingers on the american pulse and the vigor to work with and for it. Someone like, well, AOC
If it saved this country from itself, I'd be willing for Biden to be chained and whipped in the oval office. We're not deciding whats best for an 81 year old man, we're deciding for the entire nation and even the international community especially with NATO on the line.
If we elect the 79 year old instead of the 81 year old, social security is going to get cut and ruin lives for millions of people over 65.
AOC is still a hair to young to be eligible, but I would gladly take Jay Inslee, Gavin Newsom, or Beto O'Rourke. Hell, at this point I'd settle for Florida Man Jeb Bush if that's what it takes to get swing voters on board.
(People like to shit in Beto, but he almost won Texas, which is more than any recent Democratic presidential nominee can say.)
She'll be 35 on Election Day, no? And well before she would be sworn in? Plenty of reasons to say she shouldn't run, but that one seems demonstrably false.
Progressives will be absolutely woodchippered if they did anything otherwise. Prob best to stand this one out and let the centrists fight it out. AOC is as delusional as Biden if she thinks he can win this. Not a great look.
There is a cult forming around the denial of the reality around Biden as candidate. The current working term is Blue Maga. Lemmt seems to be a kind of epic enter but it's the exact kind of thing that when Russian propagandists found it, they were able to create The Donald.