SimpleX Chat - a private and encrypted messenger without any user IDs (not even random ones)! Make a private connection via link / QR code to send messages and make calls.
SimpleX Chat is an instant messenger that is decentralized and doesn't depend on any unique identifiers such as phone numbers or usernames. Users of SimpleX Chat can scan a QR code or click an invite link to participate in group conversations.
-privacyguides.org
It's clearly proving to be the most innovative technology when it comes to decentralized communication, in my opinion.
SimpleX Chat Ltd is a seed stage startup with a lot of user growth in 2022-2023, and a lot of exciting technical and product problems to solve to grow faster.
Run by a VC funded for-profit company. That really should tell you all you need to know. Sorry, but no thanks.
this is a wrong take for a few reasons, if we're talking about trust.
Also, Signal literally was taking money from the CIA for a decade and also is based in the US anyway, and no one hardly said a word 🤣🤣 "Privacy" activists are a joke lmao. Also signal made a crypto coin and took away features like SMS, but of course they get a free pass for that too. Makes you wonder.
SimpleX is fully open source, verifiable, and audited. If there are changes that are bad, the community will talk about them, and at worst it can be forked
SimpleX has made it clear that they dont want you to trust them. It's decentralised and anyone can run their own relay, and the servers are designed prevent correlation. They also make it very easy to use TOR and multiple circuits. This is contrary to the inferior Signal model where you just have to trust that the centralized Signal org isnt leaking your phone and IP to the feds.
moving towards a decentralised, open, and trustless world is better for everyone. In this kind of system, I really dont give a damn where they are getting their money from, as long as they arent putting crap in the software, and if they do, we will all know about it. But so far they have shown that they are committed to extreme security and privacy, and they obviously arent trying to appeal to normies, so i doubt they would ever even try to put VC-pushed garbage in.
If you want a good app, you will need funding from somewhere. Look at apps like Session that arent funded well. They suck. So I'd rather SimpleX be funded by a VC instead of by the feds like Signal, as long as everything stays open, free, trustless, and decentralised
Exactly what I thought; if the technology is so decentralized does it make sense to care so much about who finances the project?
Like if one instance of lemmy was funded by Microsoft, we could easily use another one and block it, right?
Upvoted bc VC eventually means enshittifiication. But with xz getting back-doored recently, what is the middle ground that keeps these things sustainable financially and operationally?
Either way, if one needs to communicate without the use of identifiers like a phone number (afaik signal requires one) I trust Session. SimpleX features cool new tech but let’s wait until it matures
I don't need people to be hyper-privacy minded.
But just a little bit at least. I'm not expecting everybody to self host a matrix server and use element and run self hosted services on their own RPI.
Usernames exist for a reason, especially in chat apps. Not having usernames is only going to severely limit your target demographic. And if nobody uses your app does it's benefits even matter?
If I want a simple chat protocol, I use IRC or XMPP. These are battle proven by time.
If I want a really secure protocol, I use Signal or Matrix. These are endored by many security experts who their shit when they assess protocols, crypto and solutions.
SimpleX may be a good alternative for anonymous communication, but there is plenty options out there. Considering how many startups are funded by cheap VC money, and the business model is always "provide something awesome, and once you have enough traction - enshittify it" makes me very weary of investing myself in new solutions no matter how open-source the are.
I may sound bitter and skeptic, but I've seen this pattern has been repeated many times over.
I saw a user’s hash just this week — it was in a ransom note. They required their victims to sign up for the service and text a code to their userhash to kick off sending the attacker cryptocurrency so they’d send a decryption key and not make stolen data public.
Other than that use case, it hasn’t picked up many users that I’m aware of.
I don't trust for profit venture capital funding, if you want to see where it ends up just Look at how telegram or wickr transitions from being "open" and free to getting stripped of features only to have them become paid only and the wickr sold off to Amazon and ended all non business support...the business model for making a profit off chat applications is bad for users.
Also now that signal supports usernames I have no reason to use anything else even for people I wouldn't want having my real number.
Agreed, this is why I am slowly moving away from Signal. The moment they announced putting in a wallet along their own crypto, was the sign for me to leave.
I've been a fan of SimpleX for a while now. Privacy comes at the cost of convenience, and SimpleX is the most private messaging platform according to this spreadsheet.
In F-Droid, after disabling all anti-features, SimpleX still is listed. Signal never will be due to connecting to GCM or Firebase. Molly is an improvement for Signal but not for untrackable privacy like SimpleX from using a different ID with each individual SimpleX contact.
@[email protected] I've not heard of anyone who does "not like" it? Many don't know about it maybe. I can't think of anything I've seen against it as it ticks most of the boxes for excellent privacy and has been very usable for me.
¹ Repudiation in SimpleX Chat will include client-server protocol from v5.7 or v5.8. Currently it is implemented but not enabled yet, as its support requires releasing the relay protocol that breaks backward compatibility.
² Post-quantum cryptography is available in beta version, as opt-in only for direct conversations. See below how it will be rolled-out further.
Some columns are marked with a yellow checkmark:
when messages are padded, but not to a fixed size.
when repudiation does not include client-server connection. In case of Cwtch it appears that the presence of cryptographic signatures compromises repudiation (deniability), but it needs to be clarified.
when 2-factor key exchange is optional (via security code verification).
when post-quantum cryptography is only added to the initial key agreement and does not protect break-in recovery.
Interesting project, but last time I tried it was battery hungry, and having made quite an effort to get some of my contacts on Signal, I don't see it happen to get them all on SimpleXChat. And Signal Stickers make Signal more attractive for some.
I think it's just that there are too many options and the communities are so fragmented. I'm trying out simplex but it still feels like beta software. Regardless I'd like to see it succeed so we have a real private alternative that doesn't rely on big tech or shady government sponsorship.
Desktop is a first-class app (not dependent on a mobile app), no phone number required, and syncing chats between all your devices just works.
Wire hasn't been updated in 2 years on fdroid tho, so I'm eager to switch to something else. But nothing else exists that meets these basic usability reqs.
There is a desktop app but linking is not as easy and featured as Session, which is really easy to use on multiple devices, but then you lose the superior security of SimpleX
Because when you read their website https://simplex.chat/ and they say stuff like "Possibility of MITM > NO" and "Central component or other network-wide attack > No - resilient" they kind lose their credibility.
Also, "Other apps have user IDs (...) SimpleX does not, not even random numbers." > there must be an ID at some point. When you invite someone with a QR code or a link that effectively becomes an ID - even if it changes for every invitation. Also servers need to coordinate message delivery, some form of ID is required for that.
The way the messaging queues work and what the servers see is interesting but I'm yet to dig into that.
What does their multi-device story look like? Can I use one identity/account on multiple devices, with synced read state etc?
Edit: Looks like it's being worked on. I don't want to use a messenger without this feature anymore, but I'll give SimpleX another look once it's done.
What really bothers me about Session is that you effectively cannot selfhost - hosting a node is prohibitively expensive. So seems like the only people who can realistically host a node are crypto bros, big companies and government agencies. Thanks, I would rather stick with IRC/XMPP/Matrix.
unified push works as a stand in for gms on devices without it. it runs in the background & receive the wakeup pings for the apps (in this case simplex) so you only need one websocket open instead of a different background service for each app. hugely reduces battery use.
Simple answer to the question so far as I can see: in order to connect with someone, you have to video conference with them and show them a code. So the anonymity is only as anonymous as the video conference you use to do that. All of the benefits it claims are merely an illusion.
Here is my take as someone who absolutely loves the work simplex did on the SMP protocol, but still does not use SimpleX Chat.
First the trivial stuff:
no one else seems to use it
UX is not great because of initial exchange
These two are not that unexpected. Any other chat app with E2E security has tricky UX, and SimpleX takes the hard road by not trading off security/privacy for UX. I think this is a plus, but yes it annoys people.
Now for the reasons that really keep me away:
the desktop app is way behind the mobile app - and I would really prefer to use a desktop CLI app
haskell puts me off a bit - the language is fine I just don't know how to read it - for more practical issues it did not support older (arm6/7) devices which kept lots of people in older devices away
AFAIK no alternative implementations of either the client or the SMP server exist - which is a petty I think the protocol would shine in other contexts (like push notifications)
I was going to say that there are not many 3rd party user groups - but I just found out about the directory service (shame on me, maybe? can't seem to find groups though)
protocol features/stabilization is a moving target and most of the fancy new features don't really interest me (i don't care much about audio/video)
stabilization of code/dependencies would help package the server/client in more linux distros, which I think would help adoption among the tech folk
Finally a couple of points on some of the other comments:
multi device support - no protocol out there can do multi device properly (not signal, none really) so i'm ok with biting the bullet on this
VC funding is a drag - but I am still thankful that they clearly specified the chat protocol separate from the message relay, which means that even if the chat app dies, SMP could still be used for other stuff.
i don't know in what world you're living, but in this world where people think you're (edit: we are) a pain in the ass for refusing to install WhatsApp when everyone is expected to use it for official communication (work + organizations); Signal is great.
I've convinced a couple of dozens of people to use Signal, and only one to keep Simplex as, at least, a backup.
as a caring-about-privacy minority we can invite "them" to Signal. "They" know Signal and Telegram👎. "They" understand our concerns. "They" for whatever incomprehensible reason keep using WhatsApp 🤷 We're left out of the loop because once "everyone" is on that WhatsApp group, it's tiring for them to send an email or an sms to the exceptional one or two people
I'm not saying it necessarily is a good name but simplex is just a Latin word that's used in many contexts. I for one would have never thought of Herpes here