Trump suggests Palestinians leave Gaza and ‘we just clean out’ territory
Trump suggests Palestinians leave Gaza and ‘we just clean out’ territory
US president says he wants people to move to neighbouring nations, after resuming shipments of 2,000lb bombs to Israel
Donald Trump has suggested large numbers of Palestinians should leave Gaza to “just clean out” the whole strip, after ordering the US military to restart shipments of 2,000lb bombs to Israel.
The US president said he wanted Gaza residents to move to neighbouring nations, and that they could be displaced “temporarily or could be long-term”, after a phone call with Jordan’s King Abdullah on Saturday.
“I said to him: I’d love you to take on more because I’m looking at the whole Gaza Strip right now and it’s a mess, it’s a real mess. I’d like him to take people,” Trump said, when asked about the call.
He also suggested Egypt as a destination for Gaza residents, and said he would raise the issue with President Abdel Fatah al-Sisi on Sunday.
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Reeeeeeeeeally hard to stop my self from screaming “I fucking told you so” to all the idiots who insisted Trump would be better for the situation right now
This is literally the exact thing I’ve been trying to point out for months
Nobody I know thought Trump would be better for Gaza. Just that Genocide is the worst situation and it was already being ignored.
But now we get more death! Immigrants, trans people, FEMA, it’s like a Gatcha game of who else gets to suffer. We really taught them a lesson
The dem leadership knew the whole time exactly how to win the election but werent willing to pay the price in thwarting AIPAC to secure that win. All they had to do was recognize the genocide a few days before the election and follow existing laws on it, and acknowledge that many Americans are struggling. They chose to roll the dice instead.
I pointed this out to a dem apologist on bluesky and their response was that ending the genocide on its own wouldn't have won the election.
Motherfucker, what?! Quite apart from the fact that ending a genocide shouldn't be evaluated on how likely it is to win an election, it is the right thing to do and it would have helped.
But the dems decided that continuing the genocide was more important than improving their chances of beating Trump. Assuming they believe what we were told that Trump would be worse at the genocide, that means the dems decided to continue the genocide and also risk worse genocide. So they just chose genocide.
And now people are still trying to get up on their high horses about this shit.
Next time they say that stupid shit, share things like this with them:
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/kamala-harris-gaza-israel-biden-election-poll
“I did not pull the lever in the trolly problem and it was the dems fault”
If you're willing to let one group be subject to genocide, then all groups are eligible. You know how it goes, "first they came for[...]"
Are you suggesting we should just go for a speedrun through the list, then?
No, I'm saying that we shouldn't be okay with giving up one group while trying to use the rest of the groups as a shield for excusing genocide.
But... I'm not okay with giving up one group, nor excusing genocide. We must be having two different discussions, because I got the impression you were advocating for simply rolling over and giving up.
What I was getting at is that participating in an immoral system, only inasmuch as wasting a little time to vote for a lesser evil, can help us achieve our aims when taking action outside the ballot box. It's easier to fight genocide against one group than genocide against many groups, right?
Why have to bother yourself with harm reduction when you can choose to do nothing and passively allow things to get worse? That would be asking too much.
Maybe geopolitics is more complicated than the anti-Kamala protest voters have been lead to believe...
It certainly is. Unfortunately for all of us, it's more complicated than the Dems and "lesser of two evil" voters (of which I was one) have been lead to believe as well.
Or they would have... you know... Won.
But hey, if we want to learn the wrong lesson from this again, far be it from me to stop us.
If your "complicated" world view means justifying genocide then it's just a justification of murder.
Who did you vote for who wasn't justifying a genocide?
Edit: Worth noting, 17 downvotes at this time, yet not a single reply with a candidate who wasn't "justifying a genocide".
Oh they both were, I'm just being real about what that means.
Gotcha, so you voted for one anyway?
I did
A lot of people here on lemmy believe fiercely that both sides were equally bad about it, and it is exactly that sentiment that led to 6.6 Million former DNC voters staying home while a fascist took power.
What pisses me off is even if they WERE equally bad about it, trump is clearly worse on a dozen other extremely important issues. So why throw away all of that for a single issue? If “genocide” is the thing, what about caring about Ukrainians? Central and South Americans and LGBT in the US? Poor, disabled people and veterans? Wildlife? Children who live near industry? Why throw all those people under the bus while getting someone who is the same or worse about Palestine? It makes no sense.
In the swing states the economy did actually poll higher among people who stayed home. Gaza polled highest nationwide but ultimately would not matter until Michigan. She lost because she let corporate advisors run 140+ different messages instead of focusing on the few issues that people cared about.
I haven't seen polls specifically for people who stayed home, but anybody who voted Trump over the economy is just really really dumb.
The idea that republicans have ever been better economically is absurd. They tend to drive the country into the ground by letting rich people fuck everyone over, then there’s some sort of crisis and bailout, then we get Democrats who fix it while being blamed for the republican’s mishaps.
There was one that went around Lemmy for a minute.
Which could've been avoided if Harris had taken a stronger stance on Gaza.
Like what? Negotiating peace while keeping Israel as a strong militaristic ally in the middle east is the only option for the DNC. If I were running the show I would depose Netanyahu and reorganize Israel military, but if I ran for US president on that platform I'd get fuck all for votes just like Bernie Sanders did in the primaries.
Israel Militaristic ally is just another statement that hold no value at all.
US have multiple bases in Jordan with strong ties. Strong relationship with Egypt, Massive base in Qatar, strong ties to Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates.
Pretending US need Israel is just a lie. They can literally make it another state and it would be much better option for Palestinians than current situation.
That’s great but a single politician doesn’t get to make that choice for the US. That’s the idiotic thing of blaming all of this on Biden or Harris. Israel is supported financially and in anything they do by 95% of the US political establishment.
Egypt doesn't even have a strong relationship with itself right now, and most of your list has closer relationships with Iran, Russia, and China. Hell, one of the most adversarial nation in the region, Iran, have been accused of being too friendly with the USA by Saudi Arabia leading to strained relationships.
Here is a picture of Jordan's King Abdullah II visiting the Kremlin in person.
This is a proxy war. Nobody is really on anybody else's side unless they're surrounded by enemies and desperate for aid. Israel is that ally. Even Afghanistan turned out to be more against than they were with the USA.
I want it to change, I really do, I think there is an avenue for peace some day, but as it stands right now doing nothing will result in more bloodshed than propping up a bad ally and minimizing the harm they do.
Yeah, no what led to 13 million (not 6 million) former DNC voters staying home was:
- Being lied to & gaslit about Biden's condition.
- Kamala hiding from interviews where she might get asked tough questions.
- Kamala sending out Mark Cuban to tell everyone how much she loved big corporations.
- Kamala claiming she couldn't think of anything she'd do different than Biden, other than having a Republican in her cabinet... while parading around with Liz Cheney & praising Dick Cheney.
- Spending 2 billion on her campaign, giving a lot of it to right-wing networks for advertising despite them overwhelmingly supporting Trump & to people like Oprah & Al Sharpton to pretend that they were giving fair interviews.
- Attacking other progressive candidates, like when she endorsed & paid for the ads to go after Jill Stein.
So which of those is worth letting Trump get elected over?
2020 total votes for Biden 81,283,501
2024 total votes for Harris 75,017,613
So I was actually over, the real difference was 6.27 Million.
I said DNC voters, not Biden voters. Semantics though. The point is that "she makes me feel joyful" wasn't enough for people to stomach genocide & neocons.
"I don't want many many more women and children to burn to death trapped under rubble while their families watch" should have been more than enough for people to stomach another Harris administration.
Democrat: "Trump is killing more of you than Biden isn't he?"
Palestinian: "No, there is a ceasefire now. We are safer than we were under Biden at the moment. We hope that Trump doesn't help kill 70,000 of us like Biden did."
Democrat: "No I said he's killing more! You must be one of those Russian Palestinian Nazis!"
Palestinian: "Are you okay? Do you need a doctor?"
Democrat: "FU Palestinians! I hope he kills way more!"
I never said that. You're projecting again. 70,000 Palestinians dead under "I'm a proud Zionist" Biden, multiple vetoes by the Biden admin to continue the war, countless statements by Biden subhumanizing Palestinians.
Democrats: "22 Lebanese dead under Trump! That is way more than the 70,000 Palestinians & 2,700 Lebanese killed under Biden!"
Acting like Trump is easing up the genocide is fucking delusional.
"Trump is the reason for the ceasefire!!"
Are you intellectually dishonest or just stupid? The ceasefire that has been being planned for months, with literally 0 involvement from Trump, because he literally had 0 authority until like a week ago? Holy fuck.
Genocide is the worst situation
Very obviously a false dichotomy.
Do you think Palestinians wanted Trump to win?
They want peace. Harris made no move to say she would stop the genocide.
A lame deflection.
You talked about what they wanted. They do not care who the president of the United States is. They care about peace.
By you, yes. Palestinians knew they didn't want Harris to win. Guess next time you'll support their candidate, Jill Stein, if you actually care about what they want.
they didn’t want Harris to win.
Oh, silly me. So they wanted Trump to win?
No, Kamala & the establishment left wanted Trump to win. Palestinians wanted Jill Stein, an actual progressive that fought for them.
Trump is worse for saying the quiet part out loud, but the actions by all administrations since the establishment of israel show that this plan by israel is being followed regardless of what the president says out loud.
Because trump is more vocal, resistance and people could better predict what he could do and try to organize and find way to stop him even partially
I don't think that matters. Israeli officials themselves have said their plans out loud. It's already well known that they're going for a full ethnic cleansing which includes genocide and mass relocation because they want all of Palestine and more (which they refer to as "Greater Israel"). There have been some actions taken, including by the ICC (which Biden wrote off as "outrageous") and all those student protests which were forcibly silenced. Ultimately we need someone with power to do something. Trump certainly won't do anything to stop it, in fact he openly encourages it. Sadly democrats won't do anything either, even if they're more silent on the subject or let a small handful of democrats speak out a bit (but not too much, or they get censured).
The US is the biggest power behind Israel and no one dares stand up to the US. If both of the biggest parties (and only ones that will ever get any power) agree to not do anything to stop it, then it will just continue getting worse and worse.
Yemen dared. Freedom fighter dares. But it is easy to call them terrorist while killing at least 100k mostly kids and children.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-gaza-palestinians-concept-paper-1.7015576
The plan was always their. They would get away with it even if it was biden or harris would won
It was Israel’s plan yes, not official us policy like now.
What would you make think biden or harris would have blocked such a plan?
Maybe the fact that the Biden administration withheld 2000 lbs bombs from Israel and Biden repeatedly cussed Netanyahu out over the phone? Maybe because the genociders backed the Trump presidency fiercely?
Btw those held weapons shipments were happily continued by Trump earlier.
I mean the real question is, yes, genocide doesn't stop either way. But which option lends itself to less oppression of minorities in the US itself? I mean if both sides genocide, but one genocidal side doesn't want to fuck over trans people, but wouldn't you choose the side that doesn't fuck over trans people?
The trans bans are just a test as they work their way toward Hispanic, Muslim, and eventually everyone without a red hat on bans.
Because they already were. Only siths and maga deal in absolutes. Which are you?
They never was. Every time the US say to Israel to not do something Israel does it and then the US give them more bomb and aids and diplomatic protection.
The copium is thinking that Biden,harris and trump wouldn't try to outcompete each other is supporting Isrsel
Can we keep this cringe Funkopop liberalism on Reddit please.
It’s called objectivity sweetie and I’m an anarchist ✌️
you shouldnt start calling people "sweetie" or this devolves into a slapfight.
That what you want? To shut conversation down? And for an "anarchist" you sure are bending over to DNC corporatist hierarchy. Little bit suspicious.If you’re still playing the both sides cards this far into it you’re not capable of conversation.
And yep still an anarchist even though I’m rational and pragmatic.
yep still an anarchist
The world judges who you are based on your actions, not what you'd prefer to be called.
My actions are aligned.
Maybe he is someone who saw this last loss coming and sees further losses coming unless the dems can start doing the right thing again and adopting an actual effing platform that people will vote for. Remember doing the right thing? When did you abandon the idea of pressuring our leaders to do the right thing?
Because it’s the cowards way out at the expense of the Palestinians. Doubt there’ll be much left by next cycle
Oh?
So you're ready to disavow Bidens support for zionists and agree that it was and is wrong, and that we cant support anyone who does that anymore?Welcome to the new democratic party, brother. Grab a shovel, theres a lot of corrupt DNC trash to haul to the curb for garbage collection.
No that’s a daft thing to say. Learn some nuance.
You think Joe Biden who said that he was a fervent Zionist and that nobody in US history been more of an ally to Israel than him, and Kamala Harris who basically said she'd do everything he would have done, we're going to reign in Israel? Good Lord man there's a difference between optimism and naivete and you have crossed it.
And yet, it got much worse almost instantly. Weird that.
Is there a difference?
Actually, yes. For the Palestinians anyway.
They can still argue that situation is better now but it depends upon a very specific meaning of “better” that doesn’t consider the Palestinian people’s welfare at all.
Saying, "I told you so" has zero effect. This people didn't reason themselves into their positions and will refuse any reason that would cause them to change their minds.
It was clear months ago these were smart people. Their utter lack of doubt continues to be the reddest of flags.
Good point; The message may be undercut by the grammar. Effect is a noun/adjective. Affect is a verb/adverb.
Disregard if you were actually trying to state that the concept of the number zero goes out and affects people in some unspecified way whenever that statement is spoken.
How would Kamala have been better for Palestine?
This is the 7th time you've commented this extremely low effort comment making ZERO points at all.
You're a real piece of shit. You genocided palestine. You bastard.
Biden and netanyahu genocided palestine. That is my point. How is this worse than that. You know I'm right so you don't even have an argument.
He secured a ceasefire, which is more than Biden could do. But ultimately, is he better? I don't think so. I'm not sure he's any worse, either. I wish we had better options.
He did not secure a ceasefire.
Note that the ceasefire is literally identical to the one the US Department of State proposed the better part of a year ago. The ceasefire was enacted now, and not before, for reasons of political timing, nothing more. This falls in the same category as Nixon when when he pulled a very similar ploy with Vietnam.
He did not secure a ceasefire.
The ceasefire was enacted now, and not before, for reasons of political timing, nothing more.
Wait...so, who's responsible for the ceasefire? If it was Biden, why did he choose to do it after Trump got elected? What kind of "political timing" is that?
I feel like you’re intentionally misunderstanding and missing the point of what I’m saying
It's not intentional.
If it was enacted now because of Trump, then he is the reason it passed.
Ergo he secured it.
He may be a piece of shit with nothing material to add, but his endorsement did move this ceasefire forwards.
Also the same category as Reagan's election and the embassy hostages + Iran contra affair. It's part of the standard republican playbook now.
He's certainly worse, Biden didn't piss off Canada and Mexico immediately.
I can't really speak on internal US policies, i.e. whether Biden's inaction or Trump's wild actions are overall worse for the nation but internationally, Trump is far far far worse.
It's not even a competition.
I'm talking about Palestine only.
Okay?
Why didn't you have an issue with it at any point in the past 15 months?
I did. I still do. What’s your point?
You sure? It sure seems like your first thought here is "how can I rub this in the faces of those i feel like blaming for this" judging by your comment. You seem to want to retroactively remove Biden and Harris' culpability in bringing us to this point.
Hur dur genius nostradamus here.
Nobody who watched genocide joe support genocide for over a year had any hope for 2025 and beyond.
At least the Palestinians are safe and Israel is paying reparations to rebuild gaza..
OH WAIT THATS COMPLETELY UNTRUE AND YOU AIDED A GENOCIDE. CONGRATULATIONS, LIB.
Few people argued for Trump being better. Biden bombed Gaza to rubble. Trump comes in and does the paperwork. Biden is not absolved.
In no way shape or form am I defending Biden here. His position was indefensible.
Biden didn't bomb Gaza genius.
I must have imagined those American bombs dropped by American made planes being sent by Biden.
He asked Netanyahu nicely to not carpet bomb Gaza with them. That absolves him of it all.
I must have missed the part where Biden was put in charge of Israel's military. You .ml folks are simpletons. 🙄
Come on, don't act like you don't know what he mean. He just mean thst Biden he is responsible by giving arms and diplomatic protection so Israel can bomb gaza
I know what he means and he's wrong and so are you. Israel bombed Gaza. Full stop. Biden never had the power to stop it. Want to be angry at someone, choose the military industrial complex at the heart of America's economy. The president only works for them, no matter his name or party.
Yeah he have no power at all to the point of bypassing the congress to give melitary aid to israel.
Well thank Jesus it's all fixed now then, with Biden gone.
Nobody said that idiot. You gave dumb excuses of biden support to israel. So stop acting like you ever cared about palestinians
🙄 so in your little mind, Biden says "fuck you Israel. Not a single bullet more." And magically Israel stops bombing because they.... Ran out of bombs and ammo?
It would have accomplished exactly nothing. Israel makes their own decisions. Nothing Biden could have done would have stopped anything. If you think otherwise you are simply naive.
Age took him. You are pretending to want something you cant have, cranakis. biden was practically drooling into the camera in the last year of his term, and was 'sundowning' hard. He wont live another 4 years, much less be able to perform any job.
If Israel relies on US weapons, then yes the US has the power to stop it, by not supplying the weapons.
We know the weapons are going to be used for genocide. Supplying them is as good as pulling the trigger ourselves.
As abhorent as it was transferring the sales of weapons to IL it should also be made clear that Israel absolutely does not rely on the US. They can at any point go down to the next shop and get what they need. The issue is the US wants to exert it's influence in the region so will go to great lengths to be the top shop. Make no assumptions about the US being the only shop in town.
No you don't get it, the president directly controls everything including the price of eggs and petroleum.
(These .ml types are as disassociated with reality as the MAGATs)
Is Trump in charge of Israel's military now because that's the only way for your comment to make any sense.
No Netanyahu is n charge of Israel's military. That is my point.
Cranakis,
https://www.axios.com/2024/05/13/us-presidents-red-lines-israel
Eisenhauer, GHW Bush, and Reagan all stopped Israel's zionist violence dead cold with phone calls, in pretty much this exact same situation. Its well established history that you either aren't aware of or wont acknowledge-- neither possibility reflecting well on you.
The US is in charge of Netanyahu.
Trust me bro
It's not 'trust me, bro' when it is public fucking history. It's just you being ignorant to the point that if someone sent you links they would have to be posted with 'let me google it for you'
Asking for proof when someone says the sky is blue doesn't do anything but make you look stupid or bad faith.
make you look stupid or bad faith.
We can trust this coming from a .ml
True professionals at appearing stupid/bad faith.
I suppose if you're primary education on international military protocols comes from watching hamas strap IEDs to kids perhaps you don't understand the rigorous protocols in place.
The burden of not knowing that (while still parroting bullshit) is YOURS 🤗
They can't recognize reality or their propaganda addled brains would drip out their noses.
Reading too many .ml comments is akin to eating a tub of lead based solder.
When I was younger I played Skyrim, it seemed very unrealistic that NPCs though the wind shot them with an arrow, but seeing you I think they had quite good AI actually
"Hur durr, I gottem."