Fry cooks

Skilled labor is economists jargon, so the meaning of it does not match the dictionary definition.

No one is saying there is literally no skill involved in unskilled labor.

Landlord

Warehouse fulfillment and fast food. It takes little education and training. I can be doing it in a week. Tops.

It's far harder and longer timeframe replacing an engineer for example.

Walmart door greeter, maybe?

I guess one thing I learned reading this thread, there are very few unskilled jobs nowadays.

Maybe old time admin assistants just collating papers, making copies, etc but even then those are really just unskilled tasks moreso than an unskilled job. They also had appointments to set up, calendars and rolodexes to manage, organization, etc.

I think any unskilled job can be made skilled labour if you're thoughtful about how you do it, and do it well.

Whatever job Eminem had in 8 Mile on the Up/Down button machine?

It's not and you know it. "Skilled labor" means you have copious amounts of knowledge that directly apply to a specific job.

Anyone can learn to work at McDonald's in an afternoon, and the people who work there would tell you the same.

Skilled labor requires a degree, unskilled labor does not.

I'd asume some of the jobs where you just test meds all day doesent require any skill

The only one I can think of is the guy that carries the nitroglycerin into the train tunnel when they're digging it.

It's so unskilled that if you mess up, you die and don't even learn a lesson. The job is literally walk without splashing this liquid.

This job doesn't exist anymore. Human rights and all, but a lot of train tunnels are coated in the blood of "unskilled labor".

All skilled labor can be represented by the unskilled labor required to recreate it, ie training.

Skilled labor meaning it took more than a twenty minute introduction for the job. If the guy flipping burgers can cook multiple burgers at multiple Temps, than that would classify as skilled labor. They guy that drops the fries in the fryer and just has to wait for the ding, not skilled labor. Another example, a welder who knows how the mixture of gas affects the welds, skilled labor. It's knowledge of why and how to get to the end result rather than following basic instructions just because that's what you were told.

Fruit picker, maybe? I know it's physically hard but is that skilled?

So to you what is the difference between a job that requires years of experience to become fully capable vs a job you can pick up and learn within a couple of minutes/hours/days?

You gonna pay your plumber the same as a fry cook?

A nuclear safety engineer as much as a cashier?

Cardiac Surgery M.D. the same as a box packer at an amazon distribution center?

Teacher the same as a universal basic income recipient?

Your fry order being wrong means nothing, the business owner pays for it to be replaced.

The cashier may scan an item twice or miss scanning an item but the nuclear safety engineer stopped that worker who was careless from dying due to radiation exposure.

The cardiac surgery M.D. gave your mom a new heart letting her live another 25 years but with a simple mistake instead she dies on the operating table and the insurance they pay for covers the inevitable malpractice lawsuit. The amazon box packer packs the wrong item so the recipient at worst asks for a replacement, and the business owner replaces the item if it's a private seller or provides a refund - or amazon ships a brand new one at their expense.

The teacher helped you understand basic concepts of mathematics, geometry, physics, biological processes... the UBI recipient rents their flat in Strasbourg at no cost.

When your definition of skilled labor is basic cognition ability then apparently no labor requires advanced knowledge of concepts that are difficult to understand and the risk undertaken has no tangible value. It's fine if the cardiac surgeon shows up drunk or high because the fry cook could without anyone losing their life, right? After all, their labor isn't valuable- anybody can do it because it's just skilled labor on par with packing boxes.

People are paid based on outcomes of their role and the amount of competition there is in that labor segment. Nurses right now, especially the ones that deal with the real messy cases are an excellent example of great pay and benefits due to a shortage of workers in markets where there is demand (e.g. population centers where nurses are needed.)

Software developers can make 250k++ - why isn't everyone just doing that? it's nearly free to learn (need internet and a basic computer) and building a portfolio just requires learning a skill and practicing it. You don't even need to leave the house. Packing boxes is way harder on your body. Cooking fries or dealing with customers is way messier and no one wants to really do those gigs... so why not just dev? isn't it an easy "skilled labor"?

Nah nah I agree my guy, but your getting caught up on the social definition. The guy who made the statement, legitimately thinks it takes significantly more skill to pack a box than to flip a burger. Like his definition of unskilled labor just unapologetically includes everyone below him, and all he does is pack fucking boxes. It's GOTTA be satire.

💀

Well then some labor, like working in certain music industries, is also Skrillex labor.

Mom said to bring home some chicken nuggets.

What kind of fucked up centaur is this?

What is the reason for such a distinction being constructed and becoming entrenched?

Who determines such processes, and who benefits?

All labor is skilled labor. Can you think of any job that doesn't require learning some sort of skill(s)? It's just an arbitrary designation intended to justify low wages.

I'm highly educated but you couldn't just stick me into a traditionally "unskilled" roles for which I have neither experience nor training and expect me to function. I'd crash and burn because jobs require the development and utilization of... wait for it...skills.

I think he's referring to the standard Amazon packer assortment of skills: pissing in a bottle, hiding workplace injuries, sleeping in your car, etc.

But correct me if I am wrong, but in my country skilled labor means you have to have a relevant formal education to qualify for the job, (in addition to getting training on the job which is inevitable).

Yeah, but not all jobs offer training on-site.

If you're an unskilled worker, you're only eligible for unskilled positions, i.e. ones that don't require outside training.

we are in the post-poe era.

Satire is dead.

Reality is far more ridiculous than satire could have ever hoped to be.

It does get easier, though.

Think of the shareholders!

Extra cheese flavor all around!

Having done both, this is pots & kettles being pissed at each other for boiling water. Flipping burgers and packing boxes are both trivially easy on their face, and the hard parts of both jobs are accuracy, speed, and figuring out how to get your job done when your capitalist overlords have erased your support staff and passed their jobs on to you.

It's really easy to flip burgers. It's fucking hard to take orders, flip burgers, make drinks, and keep the fryer rolling by yourself while also doing freezer pulls to keep everything running.

It's really easy to throw shit in boxes. It's fucking hard to throw shit in boxes when you've been standing for 10 hours on your day off because of mandatory overtime, none of your equipment is maintained, none of the shit you're supposed to be packing is where it belongs, and your management who are supposed to make sure that shit gets taken care of are busy sexually assaulting the 18 year old new hires.

Everybody's jobs suck and corporate skeleton crews are making it worse. The average $15/hr worker in 2023 is doing 3 to 4 workers jobs from 2019. Eat the rich, Unionize, etc...

Pissed at who, is the question

I’d be pretty pissed off if the guys at McDonald’s were paid the same as me, but I’ve spent years at university and accumulated some debt along the way.

But for some reason nobody gets pissed when someone whose whole actual job was to fall out of the right va jay jay and directly into the ivy leagues gets paid much more (100x in most cases) what they do to blabber on phone calls about market share or whatever.

McDonald's workers aren't the problem at all and nothing about the labor market changes substantially by them being able to afford diapers.

We have wealth hording dragons in this country ruining the whole thing with their wrath and greed and yet everyone's pissed that some serf got an extra ball of cheese this week.

The tasks are quite different, and so is the training.

Each skill is different, not higher or lower, or greater or lesser, than another.

Different kinds of labor take different skills, not more or less, better or worse.

A legal definition stating that special training/experience/certifications is required for that job, vs "routine" job functions.

For the guy at Amazon this could be fork lift certs, equipment certs, etc For the McDobalds worker this could be hazardous job training for chemicals, hot work, food prep/food handling training/culinary training, and maintaining the equipment.

Note, both could have job responsibilities "beyond the normal range".

That is what is intended by the "skilled" description.

Seems to me like "skilled labor" is some job that cannot be quickly and easily learned by new workers. (Build me a shed is a little less intuitive than grill me a hamburger)

So long as you get hung up on the catch phrases, those will be the easiest goal posts that get switched.

Just watch, tomorrow it’ll be defined by ‘how much more dangerous’ a job is to create the same infighting rift.

They should absolutely take it upon themselves to go to their boss for their rise. Would be even better if they back off attacking someone who flips burgers and is allowed a living wage to do so. It is unnecessary to kick down.

There is definitely such a thing as jobs that take lots of book learning and tests to get, and jobs anyone can get by applying for them. This semantic fight of "No such thing as unskilled labor" is just going to make people call it something new and politically correct, but it won't change reality.

Skilled labor is something that you need outside training in order to do.

When someone is an 'unskilled worker,' it means they're only eligible for positions that train them.

If you can master it in a week it isn't a skill. You are redefining the word to make it so broad it is useless to make some ideological point. Also given what I see with Amazon boxes I doubt they can in fact pack better than I can.

The only, truly, skilled labor.

Have you ever received an Amazon package? They are not masters of Tetris

Both jobs are difficult and worthy of respect, Neither are what you would traditionally consider skilled labor.

I would actually argue that the workers at the burger place have the harder job, because they would actually have to deal with people more and people tend to suck on terms of respect for those in lower-income jobs

I worked at BK in a dark time of my life. It was physically and mentally demanding. You had to memorize the order of every ingredient of every burger and assemble them in the least possible time and there were themed burgers or some shit so you had to re-learn from time to time. Wasn't exactly un-demanding mentally. From time to time I had to re-arrange big packages in the cold storage for hours. Fun times. Very hectic and demanding job.

It's not making fun of at all. Skilled jobs are the kind of jobs you need to learn a specific skill to do, E.g building contractor. Unskilled jobs are jobs that are simple enough that almost anyone can do, E.g. flipping burgers or packing boxes.

No matter what kind of job it is, the employee MUST be compensated for their work fairly and be given adequate measures such as annual or sick leave to ensure that they remain healthy while working.

I'd rather a system where an employee can vote their bosses out of the job so that the bosses end up working for the employees rather than the other way around. A salary isn't a gift and neither is labour.

Agreed

Every job is easy and that's why he wants someone else to do it instead of doing it himself.

As an electrician "unskilled labour" does exist. It's effectively the classification for anyone who can be trained in under a day and is thus replaceable. Unlike "skilled trades" who can take years of training and are not immediately replaceable.

These jobs are essential on site but their inherent replaceability keeps wages rock bottom due to competition at the bottom of the pay scale.

Examples are the "gopher" who fetches material, holds ladders, passes tools etc. Usually a young guy. Often this job only exists if there are no apprentices around, and is your foot in the door for apprentice if you show any initiative and aptitude.

Then there are the "goon jobs" like wheelbarrow pushing, unloading trucks or rough shovel work. These jobs have the worst ratio of meager pay to hard work possible, and in general suck ass and should be avoided at all cost. Honestly I don't know why anyone shows up for these, I would rather pick up cans or bum for spare change

Well yes and no. I mean, there are no interviews at Amazon, like if you can show up, have an ID, and can communicate in virtually any language, they will find a job for you... I just don't consider that skilled labor in the same sense as being a plumber or engineer or teacher, where you really need to study and know specific things before you can competently perform the work.

I mean, sure being able to walk and read and use your hands are skills, but really basic level.

You're good at packing, some folk are better with customers. It's a skill. And it's skilled labor.

Grass is always greener.

I think the relevance of the observation relates to how the business's income is distributed among all those receiving some share.

checks notes rawr xD

They already have, IIRC, 2 warehouses that are entirely robotic (they are testing facilities for a full robotic workforce) except for the humans that perform maintenance on said robots. They have the means to generalize the packing robots. But it's more expensive than a person still, as well as there still being some bugs in their specific system.

Heck, even the ones with people I've worked in are mostly automated. The people are just glorified hoppers, filling the machine and taking out the finished product. Even the grills have these big press like things that allow the meat patties to be cooked on both sides and not have to flipped! The position of "burger flipper" may not technically exist depending on the kitchen tech being used at any given location. lol

USSR didn't have communism

I suspect we have here another victim of the American education system.

This is correct. Almost no one is making what they should be, and we know where that money's gone instead.