Voice to parliament referendum fails in defeat that Indigenous advocates will see as a blow to progress towards reconciliation
Australians have resoundingly rejected a proposal to recognise Aboriginal people in its constitution and establish a body to advise parliament on Indigenous issues.
Saturday’s voice to parliament referendum failed, with the defeat clear shortly after polls closed.
Quite honestly it was a very confusing referendum. The question seemed simple on the surface but as soon as you ask questions very quickly it was hard to find answers. I think this confusion is the reason the majority voted no, they were scared to choose yes for something they didn't understand. I tried to understand and still couldn't find a straight answer of what this referendum was actually about.
The confusion definitely wasn't helped by the large amounts of deliberate misinformation being put out there about the intention of the Voice, and requests for specificity.
And then the apparently contradictory arguments (often by the very same person, within the same argument) that it was too much, and therefore privileged indigenous Australians over other Australians, and yet also not enough, and would therefore achieve nothing at all. Or that more information needed to be provided, or more often, that specifics needed to be pre-decided and included within the wording (overlooking that those specifics would then be enshrined in the constitution and largely unchangeable ever again)
An argument to paralyse everyone along the decision spectrum who wasn't already in the yes camp or no camps.
To answer your question, the voice was essentially a yes or no to creating a constitutionally recognised body of indigenous Australians, that could lobby Government and Parliament of behalf of indigenous Australians on issues concerning indigenous Australians.
To use an extended analogy:
It would be similar to a board meeting of a large company asking their shareholders to agree to a proposal to create a position within the company of "Disabilities, Diversity, and Equity Officer", and have that position enshrined within the company's charter, to enable a dedicated representative to make representions on behalf of those that fall under those categories, as they all tend to be in minority groups whose needs or ideas don't tend to be (on average) reflected or engaged with by existing company processes or mainstream society. And that the position be held by someone within one of those minority groups.
Sure, an individual employee could take an issue to their supervisor (i.e. the Government/parliament), but that supervisor rightly has a need to observe the needs of the company (its voters) and the majority of employees (the average Australian), and the thought that a policy might not actually be effective for person Y would likely not even occur to the supervisor, as it seems to work for the majority of employees anyway, and they're not raising any issues. The supervisor is unlikely to go proactivelly asking employee Y's opinion on implementing X policy when they feel they already understand what employee a, b, c and d etc. want out of the policy.
Even if employee Y brings up an issue directly with the supervisor, the supervisor is structurally unlikely to take it on board or give it much weight, as it's a single employee vs the multitude of other employees who are fine with the policy as is. And listening involves extra work, let alone actually changing anything as a result.
Having a specific Disability/Diversity/Equity officer not only allows employee Y an alternative chain of communication to feel like they're being seen, and their concerns heard (which has important implications for their sense of self worth, participation, and mutual respect in the company), but the fact that it's a specified company position within the company's charter means the supervisor is much more likely to give that communication from that position much more weight, and consider it more carefully, than if that random, singular enployee Y had just tried to tell the supervisor directly.
The Disability/Diversity/Equity officer doesn't have the power to change rules, or implement anything by fiat. He can only make representations to the company and give suggestions for how things could be better. The supervisor and company still retain complete control of decision making and implementation, but the representations from the DDE officer could help the company and supervisor create or tweak policy and practices that work for an extra 10-15% of employees, and therefore a total of 85% of the company's employees, instead of the previous 70%.
Now, would you expect that the company provide the shareholders with exact details of: what hours the DDE officer will have, how much they'll be paid, what room of what building they'll operate on, how they'll be allowed or expected to communicate with others in the organisation, etc? With the expectation that all this additional information will be entered into the company charter on acceptance, unchangeable except at very rare full General Meetings of all shareholders held every 2 or 3 decades?
No. They just ask the shareholders if they're on board with creating a specific position of Disability/Diversity/Equity officer, and that its existence be noted and enshrined in the company charter so the position can't be cut during an economic downturn, or easily made redundant and dismissed if an ideologically driven CEO just didn't like the idea of having a specific Disability/Equity officer position in the company.
In retrospect Albanese made a big mistake breaking his own rule in being a small target and "taking Australia with you" on big changes. I suspect this will be a bit of a "told you so" moment for the section of the Labor party agitating for bigger social and economic initiatives.
Agreed, there were too many "then what?" when you start to ask questions. On the surface, yep, sounds good to me! But "how does that help?" or "what would they do?" or "who picks them?" lead to some pretty piss poor answers.
I think the biggest red flag for people was that a large portion (possibly not the majority) of the Aboriginals that had a platform of some kind were against it themselves. Why?
We really need to move on from this divisive attitude that people who don't vote the way we do, especially with such a clear democratic majority, are necessarily 'pieces of shit'. Life and politics are more complicated than that and more politically informed left-leaning voters should know better.
It was a vote on whether one specific group of people based on race should have a say in parliament that no other race would have.
A lot of people in Australia seen that as racist and a way to divide the population.
Australians voted to remain in a system where everyone has an equal vote and voice in parliament.
The headline is very obviously misleading and not what people who voted no actually thought.
It's important to note a lot of Aboriginals voted no and we're campaigning for no. As such the left/internet whoever have jumped on the bandwagon about something they don't understand.
You moron everyone else has a voice: it's called the house of representatives. This was a body specifically to advise on indigenous issues, primarily because they live in remote communities and are therefore under-represented. A lot of money goes their way each year from the federal budget for purposes decided by old white men who live in cities, so why not have an indigenous body advise on where that money gets spent? Seems a lot less wasteful to me.
Your home is now mine and I just had a vote if you should have any say at all in anything. It failed. So you have no say. Move out tomorrow. Equal rights to everyone!
American cultural hegemony tends to influence the world. If we go farther to the right, the world tends to follow. If American exported cultural propaganda didn’t work, the world would have condemned us years ago.
If I never heard again about an American being grateful/surprised/emotion that other humans are just like the humans from the US, I would begin to suspect that simulation theory is real and that there's a huge glitch in the matrix. So, thanks for confirming this is all very real again, I guess.
I personally didn’t pay close attention to the campaigns, and think it pretty obvious Australia has a fair way to go on indigenous issues, but my impression is also that the Yes campaign was poorly executed and thought through, failing, in part, to recognise how much of an uphill climb it was going to be and how easy the No campaign was going to be. For instance, while reading the ballot, I was taken aback by how vague and confusing the proposal was, despite having read it before.
Otherwise, I’m hoping there’s a silver lining in the result where it will prompt an ongoing conversation about what actually happened and get the country closer to getting better at this.
Iirc it was a very popular idea when it was first proposed, but a bunch of right-wingers spent a shitton of money spreading misinformation which swung it towards being unpopular.
Once again, the right-wing is responsible for being garbage people.
Even 10 years ago the topic of this referendum would have been political suicide. Remember Rudd got crucified for apologising. It's actually pretty positive that this referendum, as poorly executed as it was, actually happened.
Leaving the moral arguments aside, there were also massive campaign failures on the Yes side.
No had two clear cheerleaders with an absurdly simple catchphrase: “If you don’t know, vote No”.
Meanwhile Yes didn’t have a star for the campaign and had made the amendment way too simple/general so there weren’t any included details of the practicalities. So they ended up with 100 people having to re-explain their plans every campaign stop and occasionally tripping over each other’s messages.
As a result, the complicated sell from Yes played right into No‘s hands.
It's clear that most of the people responding to you are being deceptive and crying 'racism' to make themselves feel superior.
This was not a referendum to recognise indigenous people. Whomever titled this article is a liar. It was a referendum to create an advisory body that makes representations to parliament to support a specific race. Contrary to the holier-than-thou crowd around here, many people voted 'No' because they do not agree with permanently enshrining this in the Constitution.
The referendum isn't about recognition of the indigenous population. That was 1967, which overwhelmingly passed.
This referendum was to add into the constitution that a body (a group of people) that represents the voice of indigenous and Torres strait Islander people must exist.
That's it.
The obfuscation occurred when people expected more from it, which a constitution does not do. That's a legislative power, which the current government of the time will then determine how the body is made up, how people will be chosen for the Voice etc. Additionally, there was a huge misinformation campaign and we have a media monopoly with an agenda here, so many, many people voted No as a result of the confusion.
The No vote was very, very largely done in good conscience. I firmly believe that these voters want what's best for Australia and I'm glad for that. I wish it was a Yes, but hopefully this will spur more conversation on what we can do to bridge the gap.
A decade ago our PM said sorry. Twenty years ago we were told the gap in life expectancy would be closed. One of our most famous moments in history is a PM giving old Lingari a handfull of dirt.
The majority of indigenous people I've spoken to have said they're voting no or don't care. Another empty gesture to placate the white population for another election cycle isn't what we need. An official voice that can make recommendations to the same governing body that has oppressed them for a century and to this day continue to ignore or obfuscate the most basic voices of reason from academics, human rights experts and elders?..
Yeah nah fuck that for a solution.
I didn't vote because I think each country should decide how and if they want to be incorporated into the Western system. The polarisation in the media compared to the results on the day make me think I made the right choice. Australians famous laconic apathy is ripe for spin masters to manipulate by only giving extreme minority groups the mic and as usual the actual victims are doubly fucked.
The only case against it was that at best it would be symbolic, as if there isn't dozens of symbolic bodies around the world providing suggestions to governments that are nothing more than just that, being another opinion on a matter.
Not racist, merely conservative. I voted yes but it's important to separate political observations instead of lumping them all together as "just racists being racist". It's dumb.
Sunce Lemmy constitutes 99% 'Yes men' circlejerks ill try to rationalize the opposition. From what I was told, there is no language in the proposal to suggest the extent of how the Aboriginals power over any matter. It gave them the freedom to be a blockade in matters that dont even affect them. This is what an aus friend has told me.
i. there shall be a body, to be called the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice;
ii. the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice may make representations to the Parliament and the Executive Government of the Commonwealth on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples;
iii. the Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice, including its composition, functions, powers and procedures
So... No. Your friend is full of shit. It provides no powers whatsoever.
The same parliament ignoring indigenous voices for a century will be the only one free to listen to "the" indigenous voice.
Your friend was wrong. All it required was that a designated group of people be consulted with to discuss an issue - if they wanted to discuss it. There was no veto power attached or any other additional rights or privileges conveyed.
Now that two people have shattered the circlejerk you live in are you going to reassess anything? Maybe let your Australian friend know that he was duped too.
Majority of people here descended from people who arrived well after the colonists.
About a third of us were born overseas. Around half have a parent born overseas.
It's always so funny when Americans on here, including me, are openly willing to discuss how shitty, racist, and full of bigots the United States is. Around 40% of the population is complete filth and we're happy to openly acknowledge that.
Meanwhile, Canada, the UK, and Australian users, even if they're on the left, try to find excuses to not acknowledge that their general public is also significantly racist and bigoted. And always have been.
Lefty Canuck here - Very willing to admit my country is full of racist pieces of shit. And so is every other country. 30% of the world is made up of trash humans who would fuck over their mother for a dollar, or to get to their destination 10 seconds faster.
Afraid I have to agree on the UK front. It shocks me how so many people refer to the UK as a multicultural, tolerant nation.
London, Bristol, Leeds, Liverpool, and Birmingham, perhaps? Outside of maybe 5-8 major cities, the amount of sexism, racism, and general hate for anyone poor or not of Anglo origin is unreal.
I'm Australian and I acknowledge the levels of racism. I think it's the racists who think it's not racist here. One guy told me he wasn't racist, his hatred and disdain for ALL aboriginal people was valid because he had had traumatic experiences, first hand. (makes me so freaking angry even typing this) his traumatic experiences were absolute bullshit. Racists justify thier racism as "a valid explanation" so they don't call themselves racists. So if people are saying it's not racist here you're probably talking to the racists. And Facebook. I also blame Facebook for this.
The Canadian government loves to advertise how open and inclusive they are, while at the same time oppressing indigenous people. For example (although it was a while ago, I don't think a lot has changed), the Oka crisis started over a Golf Course wanting to expand into indigenous territory, which the Canadian Government eventually deployed the military (largest deployment since WWII) to support... the Golf Course.
Even elected representatives have to deal with racist bullshit while serving their country (like Mumilaaq Qaqqaq of Nunavut). It's so intertwined in Canadian society it often isn't recognized, likely because for the most part it isn't overt. A lot of the racism is subtle, reinforced by inequitable laws & policies and almost always acted on if there's plausible deniability (that is, unless they screw up). It's almost like a lot of Canadians are politely racist.
The origin of the horsy police was to control indigenous peoples and take their children away to residential schools. Not much has changed in the meantime. They just pretend to police in the off hours when they aren't ignoring forced sterilizations and disappearances of native women, giving starlight tours, and pointing AR-15s at unarmed protestors in their own homes on behalf of the oil pipeline companies.
I've only travelled the US, haven't spent a significant amount of time there, about 6 weeks.
I'm Australian and growing up, I was quite shocked to learn at different points of my life that a few fair people were actually racist, sexist, very right or even religious.
These things just aren't overly openly discussed. Maybe in small groups etc but a lot of the population are quite apathetic (a whole other issue) and I think there apathetic tendencies both mask their own racism or whateverism but also make them not really speak out against others.
On the other hand, America embraces individuality, fame, speaking out and standing up for your rights etc. As a whole, I feel a racist American is far more in your face than a racist Australian.
I'm curious to know if this vote really is a racist result or if a large percentage of the population got caught up with the 'no campaign' which was pushing things like 'separating us in the constitution is going to create a divide, we are ALL Australians' etc.
Fair enough. I think every democracy needs to have the compulsory voting system that Australia does.
The perceptual downside to the system though is that it definitively and accurately tells you out of the entire population the amount that are bigoted POS'.
I'm Canadian and yeah.... Even IRL a lot of people refuse to admit it.
I've been forced to educate people about the Chinese Head Tax and the 2 very distinct Chinese Exclusion Acts and how that on top of Yellow Peril still affects Chinese disapora today in government regulations including immigration and social programs, which is super traumatic as a Hong Kong diaspora who is also trans, queer, female-bodied, and neurodivergent.
yeah nah cus. we're racist as and generally the progressives are willing to admit it.
Our cities don't have shit like the stark divide I saw over in Atlanta Georga usa where there's like the black side and the white side (was 20 years ago, better now?) but like even in sydney we have the red rooster line. Beyond that the wealthy east likes to assume everyone on the other more non white migrant side is an ignorant moron.
But especially to blackfellas we're horrible. I remember being told not to walk down streets because an "abbo" lived there as a kid. Like what the flying faaaark?
If the Yes campaign are serious about the Voice to the nation being important to the Indigenous people, then no-one is standing in the way of making it happen. The vote to enshrine it in the Constitution failed, but the body can still be created and can still function primarily the same.
No until it turns corrupt like what most of these bodies inevitably do. But I guess it's racist to ask if there will be a framework to oversee and manage corruption.
It's complex. Quite a few in the indigenous "no" camp want treaty instead; a formal legal recognition of aboriginal rights and representation, not just an advisory voice in parliament. Voting no for them was as much a protest as an attempt to send a message saying this should be much more. For them it's all or nothing.
Others didn't see the point, yet others don't see the problem in the first place, comfortable with the status quo.
But aren't Aboriginal people citizens of Australia and so already part of the Constitution thus having legal rights like everyone else?
What are the extra rights and representation needed?
I'm not sure why you're confused because the first sentence of the article literally says:
Australians have resoundingly rejected a proposal to recognise Aboriginal people in the country’s constitution and establish a body to advise parliament on Indigenous issues.
Which sums up why they were trying to make this happen, which also sounds like they don't have an official group of Indigenous peoples advising the government on anything that is an Indigenous issue, which is super bad.
if they have Australian citizenship (I think in 67 was a push for this) then they already have all the Constitutional rights and obligations like every other Australian citizen. Why are these extra steps necessary?
if they don't: what is their current legal status? Why not just give them citizenship and thus having the right of representation in the Parliament and so forth?
It was a constitutional change. Yes campaign was nothing more than virtual signalling with vague impact. End result a visibly risky change (see WA recent change that went really bad) that will do bugger all maybe maybe not and it’s easy to see where it would end.
Yes vote had been polling poorly from the launch.
Can I ask why you thought it would win?
I know a large amount of Yes23 campaigners were shocked, but I chalked that up to them existing in an echochamber and lacking the awareness to factor that in.
I guess I must live in an echo chamber. I've been staying away from larger socmed and news for my own mental health, and my area was a pretty solid yes so that's kinda all I saw.
It was to put them in the constitution as the original inhabitants of Australia and give them the right to a mostly powerless advisory body to the Commonwealth government called "the Voice".
It was a pretty conservative idea but unfortunately the conservative opposition leader is the arch-racist piece of shit who will never win a real election, but in his desperation to make a name for himself he campaigned against the referendum, and referendums traditionally only succeed with bipartisan support. So now all that's really been accomplished is to disenfranchise our indigenous population even more.
I know it's a lot more nuanced than this but the idea of history being like "yes these people were unarguably here first" and government going "nah we created this place" is so fucking ridiculous.
That’s a lot of hate you assume was caused by the opposition. Australia voted them out big time a few months ago so that’s a lot of reach.
It was the yes campaign that did it to themselves. They needed to have CLEAR impact statements about what it will do before they put it to the public. Their campaign created its own vague outcome and stink of virtue signalling. Not good enough. Especially considering what happened in WA weeks before announcement.
The recognition aspect was basically the creation of an advisory body to the government with members selected from indigenous groups. The idea being that the govt has historically poorly managed indigenous issues so by having them directly advising govt there should be better policy outcomes
Oh dear, thanks for the link. I would have voted no, too. It does not sound like a great institution. (Although I'm German and reading about it for the first time rn, so..)
From what I read in this article, I'm not even sure it would be properly democratic? Reads like a government advisory body which claims to represent the interests of a specific heritage - pretty strange.
Yeah I don't get it either. I know a lot of Natives hate the Bureau of Indian Affairs, but is that what Aus is trying to get too (within the Constitution)?
There are essentially two parts to what was proposed, the first is that having mention of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island (ATSI) peoples in the constitution is recognition.
The second part, which is actually the exact mechanism which was proposed, was a permanent advisory body made up of ATSI representatives with constitutional power to give advice to the Government on issues related to or impacting ATSI people.
The exact details of the advisory body were up to legislation which we will probably never see.
That's basically why the Voice to Parliament failed. It wasn't clear what that would mean, and our utter garbage media fanned all the flames they could - raising the fear in people's minds that we'd be 'giving away' some part of our democratic process. It's not what would have happened, but it's a not unfounded fear that in this age of doublespeak and militantly progressive movements, 'recognition' of Indigenous Australians could be manipulated into something we didn't agree to. The result - keep the status quo.
This is a victory for racists, and bad-faith actors, some some of which have received lots of money from China and Russia to help destabilise another Western country.
Honestly don’t know if that latter bit is true. We manage to be absolutely atrocious to the indigenous population without third parties meddling. I don’t think there’s a single native population that hasn’t been mistreated; had their culture and names taken away, sent for reeducation, eugenics, and so on, so forth.
That's what I as an outside person have read for like a decade. Australia is usually looking good because it's not 'murica, kind of like Canada, but bloody hell don't look too close.
I agree but at the same time in this modern age of ‘social media’ I am certain that the people who said openly that they wanted to take down The West, are doing so.
Lol there's no China and Russia. Baby boomers mostly britishers and racist as fuck in australia so by default their kids carry the same sentiment.. Germans and Britishers are the worst people.
Thanks to the media shovelling fear, misinformation and lies into our minds. I blame Facebook, Twitter and Murdoch for this one.
The conspiracy theories around this issue were fucking wild. Ranging from the UN taking control of our government, to abolishing all land ownership and giving them the right to have your home demolished, to some bizarre thing about the pope or some shit.
Don't just dismiss those that disagree with you as conspiracy theory believing nut jobs.
The Yes campaign majorly dropped the ball. They alienated the voters.
Not really. This is a tragedy but historically referendums in Australia only pass with bipartisan support.
Also historically, the side that wins the referendum doesn't win the next election, because our referendums are zero-sum yes or no choices akin to FPTP elections which favours American-style extreme politics, whereas our general elections employ preferential voting and compulsory suffrage which requires potential governments to appeal to the political centre. The referendum has shown people who the opposition party really are, and they won't be able to walk that back.
I did see something that reminded me of the last two UK referendums.
Leading figure Warren Mundine in the No camp said the referendum was "built on a lie" and a waste of time and resources that could have been better spent on struggling communities
Ah, where have we seen that pile of bullshit before?
Oh yes, Brexit saying they'd give all the EU money to the NHS, and the NoToAV lot saying that babies needed incubators, not a new voting system.
Of course none of it was actually spent on those things, it was merely a suggestion, leaving it free to be simply embezzled by Tory cunts.
Australians have resoundingly rejected a proposal to recognise Aboriginal people in its constitution and establish a body to advise parliament on Indigenous issues.
The defeat will be seen by Indigenous advocates as a blow to what has been a hard fought struggle to progress reconciliation and recognition in modern Australia, with First Nations people continuing to suffer discrimination, poorer health and economic outcomes.
Nationwide support for the voice was hovering at about 40% in the week before the vote, with coverage of the campaign being overshadowed by the outbreak of war in the Middle East in the crucial final days.
The failure of Australia’s previous referendum in 1999 – to become a republic and acknowledge Indigenous ownership – was seen to have failed because it put forward a specific model to voters.
It weathered accusations that it championed the voice push while failing to deliver tangible improvements for citizens facing cost of living pressures and a housing crisis hurt the yes side.
Opposition also emerged from the far left of progressive politics and a minority of grassroots Indigenous activists, who rejected the voice while calling for more significant reconciliation measures, including a treaty with Aboriginal Australians.
The original article contains 724 words, the summary contains 196 words. Saved 73%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
It would have made more sense to just legislate an advisory body to parliament as envisioned and planned, to show people: see, it's literally just an advisory body with no veto or other legislative power, and then put it to a refenedum to enshrine it in the constitution afterwards.
Would have given the no campaign less space. "If you don't know, vote no" would have had less traction.
The whole thing was a fumble. They picked the wrong time and appealed to the wrong people. They also never sold why it needed to happen.
What does a Chinese, Afghan or Sudanese citizen even understand or care about a group of people when they probably have never even met one.
They appealed to the inner city rich snobs and no one else. The inner city was going to vote yes anyway. Why didn't they go where the no votes were?
I'm not an Aussie and I'm not following this in particular, but from what I've seen that's how bad ideas work: you don't want to start a dialogue where the noes point out all the flaws in your ideas. In the US the extreme of this is legislation passed in a specially coordinated session at midnight with an absolute minimum of debate.
With that said, why the hell does a budgeted program belong in a constitution and not in a regular legislated budget? And why the hell does one specific group need specific recognition defined at the level of a constitution, as opposed to broad rules changed in such a way that their specific exclusion is forbidden with a catch all that also benefits other minorities?
The obfuscation was purposeful. The mining / oil industry were backing the no vote, and there's no onis to be truthful in political advertising. That's what needs to change.
American politics are all right wing compared to other socially democratic countries.
Our major political parties are the Australian Labor Party (progressive/socialist), Liberal Party of Australia (capitalist/liberal), The Greens (environmental/progressive), National Party of Australia(authoritarian/regressives).
The Liberals and the Nats have a coalition called the Liberal National Party (LNP) because it's the only way they can get enough representation to get majority government.
It's worth noting that Australian and American interpretations of liberalism differ quite significantly. The modern Liberal party and its predecessors formed in direct opposition to the Labor party, in direct opposition to the labor movement. They formed as a party against radical social change, against socialism, and for free-market policies and laissez faire capitalism, describing themselves as "classical liberals". On the other hand, "liberalism" in the US more refers to social liberalism, but it's actually the exception in that regard.
All that is to say that, when Australians refer to someone as a liberal, we mean a different interpretation of the word closer to classical liberalism.
Yep very misleading. There's recognition, and then there's the advisory board question. The Yes campaign did a shoking job and alienated everyone by calling people racist who asked questions about the Voice.
I remain hopeful. Even though a vast majority voted no to establish a body, I certainly hope that we have a government that can put something into action and that the Libs stay stuck in the weeds until they find what they stand for again.
Is there currently an Australian equivalent to the BIA? If not, is a Constitutional Amendment required to establish one or can one be established by legislation?
Wow. I just looked at the front page and that's actually amazing.
Short answer - no. Australia does not have such a thing, especially with that much support. We have some indigenous people in government but they represent their seat, not specifically indigenous affairs. There is currently no body that represents indigenous affairs as a whole.
It can be established by the government of the day, which it was back when Kevin Rudd was our PM (Labor Party). However, this body was then abolished by the next government, run by Tony Abbott and others since (Coalition).
Now, we have Labor in power again and this referendum was called to have a voice enshrined in our constitution so that it couldn't be abolished by future governments. Since we nationally voted no, our current Labor government can establish something like the BIA, however there is a high risk that this will be yet again abolished like last time.
At what point backwards in time was it normative indigenous peoples get representation in government?
Sometimes progress is slow, and many younger people being upset about a 'no' to indigenous representation is exactly the kind of thing that eventually leads to steps forward.
It's just very much the case that many people today are upset with how slow social progress seems to be taking. But in large part, that's because of how quickly social issues are advancing for new generations relative to how slowly older generations set in antiquated ways are disappearing from the equation.
What was the average age of who voted on the measure?
What's the average age of the people looking at the result with disappointment?
The gap will tell you roughly how long it's going to take for that change to start to meaningfully happen.
I don't give a shit which side of history you want to fall on, no democratic society can be expected to make a cognizant decision without knowledge. I want for our Aboriginal people's to have as much support as they deserve, however making a constitutional change before you write the plan is fucking ignorant.
I might vote Labor, but I don't support aggrivated ignorance, lack of conviction, and poorly thought out attempts at virtue signalling without putting any real weight behind it. If you want to act like you're want to make a change, prove it by coming up with a plan before you choose to start the plan. I want to see real change for our Aboriginal ancestors, not sweeping the real issue under the rug with a token gesture.
I've got a better idea than the voice, liquidate the Australian billionaires who raped our country for it's resources for profit and give those proceeds to groups dedicated to improving indigenous people's situation, and even that is a more cohesive plan than what was put forward.
Sorry mate, this is basically a misunderstanding of the process.
For example, the constitution empowers the government to raise taxes. The constitution doesn't include any "plan" for raising taxes, it's up to our elected representatives to argue over the best way to do that and write and maintain legislation to do that.
This was a question to the Australian people as to whether you / we wanted parliament to develop a plan, and maintain that plan as society evolves in the decades to come.
liquidate the Australian billionaires who raped our country for it’s resources for profit and give those proceeds to groups dedicated to improving indigenous people’s situation
I also disagree on this I'm sorry. I mean yeah we need to address the lack of royalties being charged for our resources and IDGAF what happens to billionaires, but it's well established fact that money can not solve this problem. Sure any actions will require some amount of money, but just giving money to indigenous corps in and of itself does not solve inequality.
The Aborigines were Mauri Rebels forced to play the role of “savage” for colonization part of Australia co’s production they still haven’t been paid and are still underpaid by Australia Co.
So far this is filled with posts about how Australia is racist and Americans talking about America (because that's relevant?)
The title is a lie, or at the very least being maliciously deceptive. This is a common theme among 'Yes' supporters I've noticed. They laughably claim that their opponents spread 'fake news' all the while plugging their fingers in their ears spreading their own misinformation while sniffing their own farts so they can feel superior.
The referendum was about permanently enshrining an advisory body into Australian politics specifically to make race-based representations to parliament. That is racist. Most Australians don't support embedding racism into our Constitution. They voted against it. The end.
They’d rather stick with the de facto racist shit they’ve been putting aboriginals through obviously. After all, creating an advisory body to address issues of racism is obviously itself racist.
If you’re completely captured by punditry and manipulation that is.
Given this definition of racism, it creates an interesting problem: how can one solve systemic racism, without doing actions which take race into account? If someone needs help, is it unfair to treat them the same as someone else who doesn't need help? Or would it be more unfair to treat them the same as someone who doesn't need help, and therefore keeping things the same, leading to them still needing help? And, regardless of whether it's fair or not (subjective morality), is it more beneficial to society (material outcome)?
I had decided to abstain from commenting on this subject further. Pretty much every reply I have received is a variation of 'fake news' or 'racist cunt'.
As you've asked a good question in a civil manner (how novel!), it's only fair to respond in kind.
To answer your question; I believe removing restrictions is more helpful than adding divisive policies that benefit one race over another. I would argue that abolishing slavery, universal suffrage, and anti-discrimination laws have done far more to solve systemic racism than racial affirmative action.
Also, off the top of my head, I can't think of a situation where it wouldn't be even better if affirmative action policies were focused on factors outside of race. Affirmative action based on geographical location or economic prosperity would help the most people in need and capture many more who would otherwise fall through the gaps.
Yeah, I've said enough. Not wasting my time on this nonsense any more. Feel free to read my other comments if you want some counter-arguments to your 'points'. You haven't said anything particularly original (apart from your strange belief that 'enshrining' must have a religious basis, which doesn't warrant a response).
Rather than sharing a useless link, why not specifically say which part of what I wrote was a 'lie'? I'd be very interested to see which part, considering I specifically tailored my comment to adhere as much to the proposed wording in the amendment to avoid sanctimonious people coming and claiming with their noses 10-foot in the air that, 'I was lied to'.