Why I regret using 23andMe: I gave up my DNA just to find out I’m British | Technology | The Guardian
Why I regret using 23andMe: I gave up my DNA just to find out I’m British | Technology | The Guardian
I gave away my genetic information to a now imploding company for results that inspired nothing but ambivalence
Americans seem get really weird with the whole ancestry thing. There appears to be a desire to look into your family history and find something "exotic", which basically seems to mean non-English - I imagine because that's perceived as the 'default' ancestry, so-to-speak.
Honestly, who the fuck cares? What difference does it make? Nationalities aren't Skyrim races. You don't get special abilities. It makes no difference whether your ancestors were British/Irish/Spanish/French/whatever.
E: This is obviously not intended as a hateful statement, people. You have to understand that the rest of the world doesn't care about this, so we're confused when we look to the US and see them take it so seriously. We're especially puzzled when Americans say "I'm Irish" because their great great great uncle bought a pint of Guiness in the 1870s. It's an alien concept to the rest of the planet.
I worked with a French guy in Amsterdam. His parents were Portuguese, but he was born and raised in France. As far as he was concerned, he was French.
Contrariwise, I worked with an American woman in Virginia. Her grandparents were Irish, and she considered herself Irish, in spite of having been born and raised in America, and both of her parents having been born and raised in America.
It is a kind of fetish in America to hyphenate yourself. Irish-American. Cuban-American. And so on.
My own theory is that this is because America has no culture going back many generations, so people try to find one.
I mean you've basically hit the nail on the head except you're misunderstanding one important thing. They aren't 'trying to find one' they have one. Their culture IS that Irish or Cuban heritage and it wasn't retconned from 23andme or ancestry.com - it comes from the story they were told about their identity by their parents from an early age.
I worked with a French guy in Amsterdam. His parents were Portuguese, but he was born and raised in France. As far as he was concerned, he was French.
As I understand it, that's a French thing specifically, not just a non-USian thing. Like, if you're a citizen of France, you're expected to be French and assimilate into that culture, no matter whether you're a native Parisian, you moved there from Algeria in the '60s, or you're from some random other place and got citizenship via the French Foreign Legion. It's a specific sort of national ideology that's different from the American "melting pot" one.
It's actually kjnd of the opposite: America has the dominant culture going back generations. It's just that culture is very materialistic, so people try to find something deeper. That's my theory anyway. Besides, most of us are immigrants and I think a lot of Americans want some connection to their place of origin.
My own theory is racism. Other countries in the Americas are not obsessed with ancestry. But bigotry against Scots, Irish, Italians, Africans, Chinese, Polish, etc. ran / run rampant.
Jeez, are there people the English didn’t hate? I wonder if the overall disdain for other people the English had in the 1800s wasn’t what was carried over to the new world and festered into this.
It's also very much part of the 'murican narcissism culture, everyone has to be special in some way, no matter how shallow, made up or objectively irrelevant that is. I've known a few Americans IRL (I'm Swedish) at different periods of my life and no one else has ever come close to the level of mental gymnastics they do to feel special, cool, different etc. This really mirrors a lot of other things about the US, the classic image of early American towns with houses that have decorated facades but that's all it is, paper-thin lies to mask both nothingness and shittyness. And man do they hate it when you try to push your finger through those shallow shields they build for themselves.
What's with the negativity from you and the other comments?
I can tell you why Americans care. Because identity matters to people. The story of the melting pot is central to the American story as a nation of immigrants (even today) and central to individual identities. Thus, there is a lot of interest in backgrounds and geneology. If you ask the average American about their heritage you're likely to get a surprising answer - so people talk about it more.
I get why it seems weird to many other cultures - if you ask the average French person (for example) their heritage they'll say 'French as far back as we can tell'.
The French person celebrates their identity through the lens of the French story, and the American does too, it's just that the American story is the immigrant story.
I hope you do actually care. I hope in this era of rising nationalism and online hate enough of us value diversity of backgrounds and ancestries.
I'm not being hateful about it. I'm just puzzled as to why people think it makes any difference to their lives, or why they'd be disappointed in having the "wrong" ancestry.
I see a lot of Americans obsessed with it so much that it borders on being fetish-like, particularly when it comes to people claiming to be Irish or Italian, and it's bizarre to me.
Kinda weird obsession when a big part of the population hates strangers so much.
And even British/Irish/Spanish/.... doesn't mean much as there was mixing for centuries
We are in 2024 and they still use the word "race" to segregate the American population in several groups. So no surprise a DNA service could be so popular in the USA.
If they were American citizen and just that - without subdivision and the legal right to ask or use their gene, color skin or whatever_they_think_is_important_to_distinguish_themself - well a lot of issues and strange "behaviour" (aka racisme) would have disapeared.
Or at least decreased as nobody would have the legal tools and data to enforce it: gerrymanding, blaming a vote on a "community", having your town split in "community" sectors and no shame at all to call it like that officially! Which others country put "chinatown" on their map?
As a teenager, I was shocked by this fact when visiting the USA 25 years ago. That and the fact i have found in a normal marketplace unprotected ammunition sold near the baby milk. "baby stuff, baby stuff, 9mm ammo... what!?!"
This DNA service is just the result of this global problem: the american society and its laws are still allowing passive racism.
So americans want to prove (to themself, to others?) via DNA results that they can’t be racist because they have a
black friendsorry : black DNA ancestors.Some will tell you: "ho it’s just for fun". But is fun really the only motivation here?
And congrat to them as they don’t only expose themself (genetic data are priceless and should be protected at all costs) but also they expose all their children, children's children, etc. These chidren probably wouldn’t have agreed to that if they were born.
I applaud your idealism, but the tricky thing is that if you stop measuring race, then you also stop being able to measure institutional racism. That'd be great for the closet racists who want to pretend that it doesn't exist, but it does still exist and we really need to be able to quantify how well measures to stop it are actually working.
Europeans: haha you guys have no history!
Also Europeans: haha you're curious where your family emigrated from! Losers!
Those two sentences are not in contradiction. USA's history has been moved to casinos. Knowing which language your ancestors spoke, when you won't bother learning it, has nothing to do with it.
You speak for yourself. As an Englishman I get 5% water resistance and +2 charisma when dealing with non-Europeans.
You lose that buff two weeks after acclimitizing to another country, and the perceived extra charisma is actually people nervously smiling around you to mask their limited english (half the language is just obscure idioms)
...English is not the "default" ancestry for Americans. I think I know one dude from Michigan who has English heritage. Most folks I'd know have blood from Poland, Ireland, Italy and Germany. It varies regionally.
As far as white/Caucasian Americans, I'd bet money it's Germanic ancestry.
I recall reading that at one point in the 19th century, 52% of American newspapers were printed in German. And, you still find towns with German names from coast to coast. Anaheim California, Hamburg Minnesota, Berlin New Hampshire.
If you're near Eastern Indiana, check out Oldenburg.
Nationalities aren't Skyrim races. You don't get special abilities.
"It wasn't until I learned that I was 90% British that it all made sense... my inhuman ability to queue for hours, my fastidiousness surrounding permits, and hatred for the French... I knew I was special, but I never imagined how special."
A large number of Americans generally seem to grow up with a main character complex thanks to all the individualist & jingoist propaganda people get bombarded with over there.
The search for something "exotic" as you put it is just an ego-driven search for the piece of evidence that they are, in fact, more special and unique than everyone else.
If you're an American and you're not a native American you're family immigrated here. Why is it so weird to want to know where your family or ancestors come from, I'm lucky and can trace my family name back a couple hundred years. I'm still American I just got family history that's fun to know about.
One guy writes an article. literally just one dude.
the comments: "AMERICANS ARE WEIRD AF. ALL AMERICANS DO THIS AND FEEL THIS WAY."
The rest of the world has no ability to understand, because they've been in the same place for 700 generations.
The fuck are you talking about?
The US isn’t the only nation of immigrants you exceptionalist weirdo.
I think having English heritage is not trendy for several reasons.
- It's seen as the default (as you pointed out), and thus boring.
- It's not seen as exotic/fashionable because of stereotypes about the English.
- The English have traditionally been considered America's enemies because of what happened two hundred and fifty years ago.
- Stories being passed down (and possible exaggerated) from earlier generations about how the English oppressed their ancestors.
ETA: Man, you really riled up some people!
Some people are just looking for a story. I don't think there's need to view it so pessimistically. I'm lucky to have grown up with family, but people like my grandparents didn't. You got traded off as a farm hand at the age of 5, or dropped off on the church steps. Seems a very human thing to want clues where you came from, and at the time they couldn't conceive of the black mirror shit the world is now.
I've seen a couple studies that concluded blonde white people were more resistant to frost bite. People with darker skin are probably gonna do better the closer to the equator you are sun burn and skin cancer wise. Asian people have the eyes that look more closed by default as it helps in environments that are more humid. All of those seem like super powers to me o.o tho yeah I don't think you need to know your specific genetic makeup for any of that.
You say that, but the luck stat is entirely dependent on it.
While true, a lot of older people in the UK get really, really racist when it comes to their bloodline. Some people view themselves as more British than others because of their lineage towards the Saxons, as opposed to people that have been here for 100+ years that may have originated from elsewhere. Many don't consider anyone to be British if they emigrated from somewhere like Jamaica, India, or Ireland because, in their view, only the pure Anglo Saxons are the original Brits, even if 5-6 generations of their family grew up here, embedded themselves into society
I do agree that Americans are really weird when it comes to their ancestry, especially considering they come from a country that is very anti-immigration. IMO if you want to claim that you are 50% British or whatever, you shouldn't be blocking British people from moving to your country (and vice versa).
Weird how "a nation of immigrants" wants to know where they are from.
It actually does make a very important difference. You might be eligible for citizenship in those countries.
True, although that would only go as far back as parents or grandparents. And a PDF from 23andMe saying you're 8% French certainly wouldn't be usable grounds to claiming citizenship.
Yep, my dad and I are currently working with a lawyer to get our documents in order for dual citizenship. Once one of us qualifies my son becomes eligible and we can more easily emigrate to an EU country.
I had in some ways the opposite 23&Me experience and goals. My parents told me growing up that I had some small native ancestry. This is actually a common myth many Americans have either been told or somehow deluded themselves into believing.
So I did the DNA testing (which I now regret from all the obvious enshittification and privacy reasons) to prove that my ancestry was boring and predictable. Which it was, no indigenous ancestry, just the expected European countries that my great grandparents came from.
They also do a lot of nice health screening things and I think that's probably the much more valuable aspect of it. It really is very American that people are so much more concerned with what DNA says about one's race or ethnicity than about their health and wellbeing.
I'm worried about insurance companies getting it and changing rates/services based on my DNA.
Per their terms and conditions
The Services are not intended to tell you anything about your current state of health, or to be used to make medical decisions, including whether or not you should take a medication, how much of a medication you should take, or determine any treatment.
https://www.23andme.com/legal/terms-of-service/
It also seems to be a data harvesting machine that probably has ties to Google
I am a technology journalist – I like to think I am thoughtful about what data I share with corporations.
My brother in Christ, if you are a tech journalist then you, out of all people, should know not to give ANY data to corporations. That is a massive fuckup regarding your job.
There's something hilarious about the author's disappointment to find out they're British, and nothing else.
Can't say I blame them though.
I read the headline and went, “…I mean, what were you expecting?”
Title is misleading, FTA:
Confirmation that I am 63% British and Irish, 17% Danish and otherwise “broadly north-western European”. I felt a resounding ambivalence about the results, including some disappointment that I had not discovered a newfound heritage – a piece of information that would give my identity new dimension.
But also:
My father’s side of the family is meticulous about tracking our ancestry, with records that hold the name of the exact small village in Ireland our ancestors hail from.
Those results often can't narrow down to exact countries so it says he's 63% British and Irish. Seeing as his fathers family has records of being from a small Irish town it's likely he's more Irish that British, not that it means anything if you're actually American anyway.
I don't really subscribe to the whole race thing. Its a culture thing.
And even more important is the food. Can you cook me a traditional xyz meal? Delicious. I love that you're xyz.
That's just another reason to be disappointed to find out that you're British.
I refuse to do it because I'm a twin. We both agree that it's shitty if one of us does it because then the other is forced into it basically, being identical.
Also our dad was a piece of cheating shit so we don't ever want to know about that possibility.
I think of myself as someone who always wants to know, I want to know the truth, I don't like not knowing things. Plus, it could help finding out about genetic conditions and things to be on the lookout for, which can definitely be valuable.
I'd still never do one of these tests because of the privacy concerns and because I don't trust companies with something like this, especially since I have seen so many times where companies have a lax attitude or lax policies or both about security.
I mean obviously it would just discover that your mom was also a cheater?
Well I mean beyond the possibility of half siblings.
You mean that?
That would indicate your mom cheated as well? Not sure exactly what your dad cheating has to do with your DNA. Wouldn't it be better to find out he wasn't your dad if he was so shitty?
Maybe if I swab my mouth and send it off to a company, I'll finally be interesting and people will like me.
puts letter down
...maybe not.
Took me too long to realise that article is actually serious. I'd have sworn white people with huge ethnics fetish would show up as "Austrian painter" on their test, but I guess British works. Oh well 🇺🇸
You made me smile.
I did it over 15 years ago, but for health information before the FDA nuked that. (Although you can still run the raw data through a third party program)
I'm pretty sure I already uploaded myself to at least one open source database, so I don't see any reason to worry that much.
Like honestly, I'd rather be open sourced than sold as proprietary data haha
In either case the actors to worry about (whatever they might be) gets access, in the latter case it might additionally do some good.
The problem is when your data can be connected to you. If you just share it anonymously, it will likely help nobody, except that everyone now knows that some person in the world has this DNA. And has money to get it sequenced.
I’ve got to admit, I’ve wanted to do one of those tests just because my family is such a mix of “lol we don’t know.” Like, no really, what IS my maternal grandma? She does not look like the rest of her family and had a different family name from her siblings. And ok really, where DID my paternal great-grandmother who lied about her race so she could marry my great-grandfather back when “miscegenation” was illegal, come from? And WAS that great-grandpa biracial himself?
There’s a reason I call myself an ethnic Rorschach test, and I’d love to know why it is I am. But the rest of my family is against the idea of finding out because “it doesn’t matter” plus who knows how just data might be used one day.
You can just do the test in secret, I guess. Just don't tell anyone. But yeah, costs money of course.
the test isnt particularly meaningful. As I understand it they just test a handful of genes that they suspect were less varied in the past. As a result if you get tested through all the services that offer gene testing you will get different numbers for each one.
That’s the other big reason I’m hesitant - different tests can give totally different results, so who knows what’s “right”?
Recreational DNA testing eventually led to discovering that I had never before met my biological father. Mom got it wrong. I met him and his family this summer finally. I am slightly irritated that my last name (and my child’s) is now kind of meaningless, and it’s too much of a hassle to change it.
Paternity testing should be done for every child. The child and father should have the same certainty that mothers have.
Completely agree.
I mean there so many videos like this https://youtube.com/shorts/FgzbCJYCBr8 that dude is devastated. Or this 'classic' https://youtube.com/shorts/qj0zsL68Ka8 or this or guy https://youtube.com/shorts/j3PWef89kPw
I could keep going, it's not that hard videos like that's and I wish it was.
Just for a pallet cleanser, look how happy this do is to find out that he is the father. https://youtube.com/shorts/PfRR5iKE70Q
Honestly I've never gotten the desire to do one of these things. You give away arguably the most uniquely valuable and private part of yourself to this company (or companies like it) to do god knows what with in exchange for these results that are (IMO) ultimately just unnecessary trivia about yourself.
I still find it funny people think these tests mean anything. "you have these 7/9 genes in common with Jasper Brittania and are therefore 77% british"
Stories tend to disappear with the passing away of living memory. These tests are a hope to revive a story of where we came from. It doesn't, obviously, but I can't blame people for want.
I haven't found an article yet that can actually articulate the problem with 23 and me right now, and actually did research into it or even read the terms and service. The problem with 23 and me is that they are not maximizing the share holder value of the data they are sitting on. The CEO wants to keep the company in line with the principals they were founded on which is to protect the privacy and data of their customers, while using opt in studies to build data sets that can be studied or sold.
Investors want to enshittify the company, and have been organizing a campaign against to company to try to drive it into liquidation to buy the data, even though the company is profitable. I wouldn't be surprised is they are funding these weekly omfg 23 and me bad articles.
That juicy data is going to get bought up by the health insurance industry. I would be surprised if they aren’t part of the push to force them to sell the data.
This only tells you about your very recent ancestry, but go back enough generations are you are descended from everyone alive at the time who still has living decendants, just like everyone else.
Told you so.
they've mostly got your genetics anyways if your brother did it
Dare I say it?
Man did you look in the mirror? 😂
Ja moa
On this topic, I did ancestrydna long before I got concerned with my data and privacy. I have since deleted my data and had them destroy my physical sample as well (which took them a long time). But I wonder if the damage is done and even though they say they deleted and destroyed the sample how can I know for sure? Etc
I don't know James Smith, from Phoenix, Arizona. Social security number 523-098-1322. Is your data safe?
Imagine how you'd freak out if I, by change, got it right.
What the hell?! You got mine right!
Not really, but it would have been cool. Also, socials are 9 digits in the US.
I'm honestly not interested in 23andMe so I never bothered to fact-check so take this with a massive grain of salt but I did watch Linus (from TechTips, not Linux) rant about the privacy problems it has. I don't trust him about these things but I've also watched him rant in favor of letting the
spywareconsumer features of Windows stay on because they're so great and it's not that big of a deal, so 23andMe has to be doing something very, very wrong.