Mozilla exits the fediverse and will shutter its Mastodon server in December
Mozilla exits the fediverse and will shutter its Mastodon server in December
Users will be able to download their data or migrate their account to another Mastodon instance, if they choose.
I am shocked. Shocked! /s
I am definitely starting to hate #Mozilla.
As a remark: I have always been fine with their deal with Pocket and having Google as their default search engine. In the end, there are bills to be paid.
Until I learned that e.g. Mozilla Corporation's CEO is on a multi-million dollar salary, and they're hiring ai and ad people.
Not OK for an entity where many highly skilled people code for free.
It's not what users want the cash to be spent on.
Leaving the Fedi is the final drop
I was cool with them buying Pocket. But as a long time user of Pocket, I feel it has horribly stagnated. Far more features have been lost than have been gained.
You are the product. All they care about is getting companies paying
I think you might be overestimating how much code is contributed by unpaid volunteers...
@mina @dantheclamman if so many people code for free, couldn't they have a simple Mastodon server run by a tech community? I think the actual leadership has no idea what Mozilla Foundation was.
Running a simple Mastodon server is not a big thing.
Setting up a resilient big instance, like Vivaldi does, requires commitment.
It seems like the kind of thing the Foundation would run anyway (or sponsor as a separate project), rather than the Corporation being involved at all.
Why does it matter that they don't run an instance? Most open source projects do not.
As long as they keep an account on an instance and keep it up to date, this is the main thing.
Hate is a strong emotional decision for a company making an internet browser....
Wasn't by far my only point.
However: Making a commitment and then pulling back, is a statement.
I am definitely starting to hate #Mozilla.
As a remark: I have always been fine with their deal with Pocket and having Google as their default search engine. In the end, there are bills to be paid.
Until I learned that e.g. Mozilla Corporation's CEO is on a multi-million dollar salary, and they're hiring ai and ad people.
Without having a say from him you are implying malicious intentions about the CEO. Which has given his actual, real Name to be in this position and so the anonym majority can provide their take. He put hisnentire career on it. Now wr could argue, that he still gets a decent job afterwards. But these are presumptions and not necessarly a representive Representation of his intentions at sign. I did non research if he has an history of climbing the latter by switching positions. Also job changes have to be interpreted to form an subjectivr opinion (We still wouldn't have heard his side which would neex to be verified).
Not OK for an entity where many highly skilled people code for free.
I once read in their blogs that the contribution percentage is very low. Which take part in the decision of inventing Rust.
It's not what users want the cash to be spent on.
Leaving the fediverse is saving money. Having such an input isn't providing any benefit to them. This is why I raise my comment.
Leaving the Fedi is the final drop
I also did erase my lemmy account. I have two left. But discussions to my liking are more objective and explorative until you truely can pinpoint the intentions of the dialogue partner.
So fuck this headline, I agree with them and you are shortsighted and doing unnecessary negative advertisement for them No benefit of the doubt.
You are actually playing with the existence if the last good player with impact.
Mozilla 2012: We're winning the browser war and saving the web. You're welcome.
Mozilla 2017: Competing with Chrome is hard. What if we break all existing extensions and never let people replace them all?
Mozilla 2021: Through inclusiveness and the power of positive thinking we will facilitate leadership towards in-depth studies of what we can do to improve social media.
Mozilla 2024: Running a small mastodon instance is just too hard, we give up.
Just a little comment on 2021: It seems disingenuous, from their perspective. Steve Teixeira, In a lawsuit, is claiming that not only did Mozilla try to get him to fire employees who were disproportionately minorities, but they were within a group that was producing a profit for Mozilla.
In other words, Mozilla might have been preaching inclusivity publicly while practicing exclusivity privately.
Color me shocked
Corporate only pay lip services to the public? I'm so shock! Shock I tell you!
what is even happening right now
Mozilla 2017: Competing with Chrome is hard. What if we break all existing extensions and never let people replace them all?
This is the one that broke my back. Understandable that XPCOM extensions had to go, but leaving nothing to replace them, and then going on to push their trash UI redesigns without giving us any recourse to change them back - that was just unforgivable.
Then again, that was still well before they started pushing spyware in their own browser, so in retrospect, those were very quaint times!
Just make a good browser.. Thats all I care about from mozilla.
I understand that they need to diversify so that they're not so dependent on Google's default search engine money. I don't know how they should do that.
But I'm not sure what they've been doing has been all that good of an idea.
make their browser engine useable for 3rd parties and sell support, make an electron-like product and add premium features… there are so many browser-based products that people sell, and owning 1 of the only viable browser engines should be huge… the fact that firefox is still only barely able to be embedded is a travesty
it’d be especially valuable if they made a premium electron product that provided security/privacy guarantees, performance benefits, etc - they should siphon some of the profit off the number of for-profit companies that build electron apps
well paying execs multimillion dollar salaries aint helping thats for sure!
Also. What's the point of their mastodon server? It's cool but so what
They're 80% dependent on google there is no choice. Mozilla's behaviour since they got the google deal was the begining of the end. I honestly believe that due to Mozilla's current leadership it would be best for open source developers to all refocus on the ladybird project. I don't have any affiliation to that project and I understand how huge of an undertaking it is to build a web engine from scratch but the gecko engine is polluted by the Mozilla's execs and by extension Google.
To make it clear Google controls Firefox by, in practice, owning an 80% share of Mozilla.
Same,i wish they can make their browser fast and actually private since gecko is slower then chromium (and maybe webkit?) its even worse on windows
Well ...
How about some A.I. bullshit in your browser?
Will it run locally and use GPU offloading to summarize articles while citing them. Sure why not.
Does it matter that they don't run an instance?
As long as they have accounts and keep them up to date, that is the main thing.
How many open source projects actually run and moderate instances?
The effectiveness of the internet as a public resource depends upon interoperability (protocols, data formats, content), innovation and decentralized participation worldwide.
- Mozilla Manifesto, Principle 6, emphasis mine
This sucks (Was it really costing much money to run?) but as long as Firefox continues to work with full-flavor ublock I'm happy.
Weird that they called it a “Beta”, like running a chat server you didn’t code is somehow an experiment. Just say you couldn’t be arsed running it anymore.
I guess hating Mozilla is very much in fashion. The tech chatterati have made it so.
They’ll move on, as they always do. I just hope Firefox is still here.
Critiquing Mozilla when they make mistakes is not the same as hating them. It is healthy to keep these organizations accountable
The issue is all signs point to them pivoting to AI and ad driven nonsense - they'll move on, but if the product goes to shit so will I. The rest is noise.
did an AI become their CEO by now? dumb moz foundation.
Unfortunate, but not unexpected.
GoogleMozilla shutting down yet another project:I don't get why, I can't see this be difficult or costly to run, but then again I have no clue, never ran a Mastodon instance.
I would assume that it's not worth the small reach compared to running X / Bluesky / Threads accounts but then again, like I said, the cost must be super small. 🤷
If Mozilla doesn't discontinue a Mastodon server with under 300 people, how will it continue funding the $65 million AI and venture capital investments they've been making?! 😬
I'm not sure why they created one to begin with
Running the server probably costs about $100 per year, plus one person's $180,000 salary
Y'all fickle beasts. Not a few months ago Firefox was a cult
I adore Firefox. Just tired of Mozilla trying features (FF Panorama) and hobbies (Notes) and then abandoning them
Like all products, Firefox still maintains a small core of uncritical, devoted fans. To them, Mozilla can do no wrong.
The problem is, up until a few months ago, Mozilla advocated for privacy and other public facing values that lined up with their manifesto. Now, they are breaking away from that, and the true believers are shifting too: becoming hostile to privacy.
The people who liked Firefox because of its privacy stance, or because they were looking for an alternative to Big Tech, on the other hand, aren't 100% likely to become a true believer, and those people are the critics. Often, those critics have been around for years going on decades.
I see this as revisionist history. Mozilla has long been beloved for a whole host of FOSS reasons, that align with the same reasons FOSS enthusiasts like anything FOSS. I do think there are fanbases for things who think their object of adoration can do no wrong (e.g. Sneako fans probably). They are out there, but I don't see that as being true of Mozilla.
I've seen supporters of Mozilla make nuanced points about it being an imperfect but important diversification of options that prevents Google from dominating the browser space, often in thoughtful interactions with fans of (say) the Brave browser or Opera browser over the fact that they rely on Chromium which is sustained by Google.
Those convos have more going on than uncritical adoration, and imo it's important to let those nuances breath so that they, rather the oversimplifications, can be our primary takeaways.
Interestingly, while talking in mournful past tense about Firefox's having lost their way, in this same thread there are people a few comments above denying that criticism of Mozilla is prevalent here. You guys should scroll up (or down) and say hello to each other.
We aren't fickle. We adhere very strongly to our principles but it's easier to direct people to a name when they aren't interested in understanding why.
Are they still running a matrix instance?
I would be mad if this would be next to fall since I use it. I don’t self-host Matrix since it is too expensive being built on a fundamental ‘eventual consistency’ model mirroring all text & attachments for all users in every DM & room to your storage—not to mention the Python implementation server & even the Rust one use much more system resources than other open chat options. It’s the same for Mastodon specifically too which but Ruby this time—with eventual consistency chewing up GiBs of storage making small players shut down instances. I would not be surprised tho if their Matrix server fell next just based on hosting cost.
Wanting to get folks off proprietary garbage like Slack, Telegram, & Discord was the right idea but moving to Matrix will prove to be a mistake as nodes are too expensive to run therefore leads to the centralization we need to escape. With the poor performance of the flagship Element client too, casual users think it is too damn slow (literally takes 2 minutes to even get to a screen with text in my browser & it isn’t even done syncing). There are more mature technologies with lower running costs that could have/should have/can be embraced.
This is too much information being processed at a time to me! 😵💫
Can we all just use a "bad browser" that isn't "as good" as these exploitative mainstream browsers by specifically giving up on websites that require a browser that exploits us? We shouldn't need to be exploited.
That's what I do!
Website don't work? I immediately leave and don't think about it ever again
Yeah! Websites be too needy.
That's a little cringe isn't it?
I mean there's just no way around it. And I'm the most unapologetic Mozilla fanboy you will meet. What was the point of making a server if it was going to just die a few months later.
You need to be in control of your projects and your vision at least enough to know if you can make a credible commitment to the thing you launch. And, like others here, I'm honestly kind of surprised that this, of all things, was too much for Mozilla to handle.
Hmm why cant they move to a pre hosted mastodon server
The only thing you need to know about how Lemmings think about politics is that they bash Mozilla more than Google.
What are you talking about? This is the Firefox community, not many people are going to stop mid-post to say "BTW I hate Google more"
... BTW, I hate Google more.
And you're incorrect: the community for leaving Google is more than four times the size of the community about Google.
BTW I hate Google more
One can and should critique a company when they make mistakes.
Lemmings are bashing Mozilla because they are expecting better from them, while I don't even expect Google to not be evil
That's precisely my point. Tell Lemmy you're a leftist but not vegan? They'll call you a murderer. Tell them you're a leftist but not an anarcho-communist? Yeah I'll bet you love capitalism and the human suffering it causes, you Chauvinist pig! Tell them you're a liberal? You're practically a Nazi collaborator! (All things I have actually heard Lemmings say.) But tell them you're a conservative and they leave you alone.
No matter what I do, I will never be leftist enough for people to be satisfied. The further left I let myself get pushed, the more vitriol I get for not being even lefter. Apparently suggesting people vote for Kamala Harris to prevent a Trump victory makes me a genocide enabler. On top of that, if I make even one step backward, much like Mozilla deciding they don't have the resources to moderate an entire Mastodon instance on top of everything else they do, I might as well have joined the enemy. But if I stop agreeing with them at all, suddenly I'm not worth harassing. It's enough to push a boy right, it really is.
I want to be a good person. I do. But if my choices are don't do that or be seen in public agreeing with leftists, especially if leftists are in earshot... it's a tougher call than I'd hoped.
Can you point me to an example of that happening here?
Here's one example of a mega-upvoted post that is critical of Mozilla:
https://lemmy.ml/post/13081759/9195853
I think it's indicative not only of the prevalence of the view but also the quality (or lack thereof) of the arguments backing the view.
Perhaps I should rephrase. They attack Mozilla (and users of Firefox) infinitely more than Google (and users of various Google products). I heard it said after Mozilla introduced their opt-out privacy-respecting ad tracking that users should "move to a more privacy-friendly browser like Google Chrome".
This is true of Lemmy's political stance in general. Tell them you're a leftist but not vegan? They'll call you a murderer. Tell them you're a leftist but not an anarcho-communist? Yeah I'll bet you love capitalism and the human suffering it causes, you Chauvinist pig! Tell them you're a liberal? You're practically a Nazi collaborator! (All things I have actually heard Lemmings say.) But tell them you're a conservative and they leave you alone.
People aren't required to abruptly stop talking about the subject of their posts to also remind people that other companies are shit also. That's absurd.
This must be the tech version of having to type up a 10,000 word essay on how Republicans are worse then democrats before you can type a single word of criticism against the Democratic party.
Perhaps they didn't want to associate with Meta.
And yet people are still angry when I say that Mozilla is malicious.
Closing down an instance you chose to run is malicious? If you cannot fully moderate it, it can tank your reputation. The labour cost isn't insignificant and is not something they should be focussing on.
Why are they angry? Are you providing evidence in your comments or just ranting?
I don't know. I haven't asked them. I have just seen the downvotes on my post(s) that were related to bashing Mozilla on Lemmy.