In a 65-foot-deep tunnel in Rafah, hostages found executed by captors
In a 65-foot-deep tunnel in Rafah, hostages found executed by captors
Forces had no direct confrontation with Hamas terrorists who killed hostages; 'The IDF and security forces are doing everything possible to bring all hostages home as quickly as possible. This news shakes us all,' says army spokesperson Hagari
Forces had no direct confrontation with Hamas terrorists who killed hostages; 'The IDF and security forces are doing everything possible to bring all hostages home as quickly as possible. This news shakes us all,' says army spokesperson Hagari
Israeli forces discovered the bodies of six hostages in a 65-foot-deep tunnel in Rafah, approximately a kilometer from where hostage Farhan Alkadi was recently freed. The IDF had no precise intelligence on the hostages' location in recent months but knew there were captives in the sector, leading to a gradual and cautious operation in Rafah since the ground offensive began.
These people might have been alive if we had a ceasefire. But no, Netanyahu's political career is more important.
They could have had all the hostages back in October. Hamas just wanted back the hostages that Israel holds.
And again, they could have had all the hostages back in May.
Netanyahu seems committed to genocide and the hostages are collateral damage.
It's deranged and I am ashamed our western leaders are cheerleading this.
Some Palestinian children and international aid workers are going to pay dearly for this.
I read this in this tone...
There's apparently a very rancorous debate in Israeli politics right now about accepting a ceasefire and a lot of people are angry that they're not making more concessions to get a ceasefire.
It's blatantly clear that Netanyahu has no desire to rescue the hostages.
These people might have been alive if they had never been kidnapped by palestinians.
Sure, but how far back do you want to take the causal chain?
I propose we take it as far back as it is possible to avoid future repetitions. So, a ceasefire for now. A just peace with dismantling of occupation and apartheid for next.
So says the IDF, anyway. I'll believe it when someone independent confirms it.
It's no mental stretch to believe idf would kill their own to further the genocide agenda.
After all, if the hostages are already dead no need for a ceasefire.
I don't think they intentionally would, but indiscriminate bombing has the tendency to create unintentional deaths for everyone involved.
says army spokesperson Hagari
99% chance that it's either a complete fabrication or a distortion of the truth when an IDF spokesperson is the ONLY source. Let's see if anyone even remotely reliable confirms the story.
While I agree with you that independent verification is mandatory in situations like this, I also believe that once you get that verification, your position will not change. You have only given yourself a 1% chance of changing your stance, which means, in my opinion, that the only refuge you are offering yourself is conspiracism if and when you are proven wrong.
I suspect the conspiracy will be "Israel killed the hostages themselves."
once you get that verification, your position will not change.
False.
You have only given yourself a 1% chance of changing your stance
No. I have given a very generous 1% chance of something said ONLY by an IDF spokesperson being the unvarnished truth. The concurrence of other sources would of course dramatically increase that chance, especially if any of them are themselves very reliable.
in my opinion, that the only refuge you are offering yourself is conspiracism if and when you are proven wrong.
That's a very weird way to guess wrong.
I suspect the conspiracy will be "Israel killed the hostages themselves"
Wouldn't be the first time or the last. That's not a conspiracy theory at this point, though, just what's most likely given the past behavior of all of the factions involved 🤷
I'm reserving final judgment until people of greater reliability than the likes of Donald Trump, Baghdad Bob, or Alex Jones chime in, though.
I suspect the conspiracy will be "Israel killed the hostages themselves."
What a terrible article. What is the source or evidence the hostages were executed? People are saying it’s a claim by the IDF but it’s not even attributed to them. From reading the article I have no idea who is making this claim or how it is supported. That’s not how journalism works.
So much angst about unreliable sources here, but we’re letting this fly?
Edit: Here is a better summary of the available source information. It is coming from the IDF, but they haven’t really said much other than it was obvious to them Hamas was the culprit. We’ll have to see what further information they release.
They were 65 feet down in a Hamas tunnel. What other evidence could you possibly need to know Hamas killed these hostages?
There are a lot of ways people can die in a tunnel in war. Friendly fire, suffocation, starvation, disease, tunnel collapse… the list goes on. Execution is a very specific way to die, and it’s extremely convenient to IDF’s narrative about the conflict, and it seems counter to Hamas’s interests to throw away their main bargaining chip. It’s not that I don’t believe that’s what happened, but the minimal details presented here don’t tell a complete story and weren’t even traceable back to a specific source. I’m just looking for a little more detail to fully understand what happened.
And this is assuming the bodies were found where they died. It’s also possible they died elsewhere and were being stored here for use in negotiations. We just don’t know much and unfortunately, will need to depend on untrustworthy sources to find out more.
Do we have any source aside from the IDF?
Because already where they were supposedly found is based on what the IDF says. And we know that the IDF has been lying repeatedly throughout this war. We know that IDF soldiers have killed Israeli hostages before. We know about the Hannibal doctrin that dictates the IDF killing their own soldiers to prevent them from being captured alive. And the current political situation in Israel has become extremely critical of the IDFs failures to secure the hostages. So the IDF has an even greater incentive to downplay any possible responsibility.
Until we have the results of a comprehensive investigation by a non IDF party, there is a lot more evidence we need to know before forming a judgement.
The IDF and security forces are doing everything possible to bring all hostages home as quickly as possible.
Then apparently a ceasefire isn’t “possible”. STFU, Hagari.
'Quick, bomb more civilian choke points!'
Sure it is. Hamas will release the hostages and surrender and there will be a ceasefire, otherwise Hamas will be killed to the man.
"Hostages found bludgeoned to death with rubble in tunnel that was liberated by IDF bombs."
with how happy the IDF has been with killing the hostage themselves so far, I have a hard time believing it. Could it have happened? Sure. Did it? Since the IDF says it did, it's much more likely that it didn't.
"Hamas could never do something like this. Kidnap and take hostages? Sure. But they would never cross this line. They are the good guys."
Fuck off.
The hostages seem like the only bargaining chip they have (not that it's much of a bargaining chip), so I'm surprised they're doing it. Maybe they've decided that it isn't worth it.
Probably frustration and despair. If your bargaining chip can't get you a bargain, all they're worth is 'revenge' against your opponent.
What a fucked situation.
I put as much faith in this as I do the hospital tunnel story.
Anything the IDF says is to be treated as bunk without at least 2 corroborating sources. The IDF lies like they breathe, so I'm more willing to assume they killed the hostages to make Hamas look bad than anything they actually say.
Depending on how recently they were executed, it makes perfect sense. As the one holding hostages, you want to set the precedent that the only way to get them out alive is via negotiation.
They died recently enough for the bodies to be quickly identifiable. No DNA tests necessary or anything apparently.
Hamas is trying to keep as many alive as they can.
But (a) 2000 pound bunker busters don't discriminate between Palestinians and Israelis and (b) if the IDF comes too close to the hostages, their guards have to decide whether to let them go alive or to kill them.
In the case of the Druze guy, I can definitely see Hamas choosing not to kill him. But in cases of Israelis who also served in the IDF, the rational choice is to kill them instead of giving the IDF a propaganda win.
And finally, sometimes the IDF probably accidentally kills them and tries to blame Hamas if they can get away with it.
Is Hamas even that disciplined to act as a unified front? Management or soldiers on the site could've decided themselves to take a revenge on hostages. Especially if they knew they are cornered and there were no use of keeping them alive if they are deadmen too.
Probably because they knew that rescue forces were coming, so they killed the hostages so that hopefully, they don't try to rescue more hostages.
Sounds like they were retreating from the area, and didn't want to bring the hostages with them. In this case, executing the hostages makes strategic sense, as it reinforces the threat that you are willing to do so.
It would be smarter for them to bring the hostages with them to keep their bargaining chips. You may be right but I'm putting my money on the IDF killing them with bombs and blaming Hamas until another restorer says something. Unfortunately, the IDF keeps killing all the journalists for some reason...
They also have dead Palestinian kids that they've intentionally placed in harms way, entire cities they use as human shields, you know, for sympathy.
"Martyrdom" they call it.
Israeli spokesperson had this to say "When we forced people to live in slums and ghetto's we thought they would act like our ancestors, and we could just slaughter them. I guess that's not how genocide always works. But we with will keep trying no matter how many innocent children die! Because when the victims stands up for themselves, we lose, and the Zionism cult doesn't allow for that."
Source?
When the IDF rescued the only 4 hostages they did, they killed 300+ mostly women and kids including some more of their own hostages.
So that's why probably it was a no brainer for Hamas to indeed just execute them as soon as they figured they would be found, to save the lives of hundrends of innocents
Why would the IDF's response be weaker if the hostages are dead?
No need to go in after hostages that aren't there
I would have thought returning them would be the no brainer.
Sickening...
@[email protected] This reply getting downvoted shows Lemmy political opinions pretty well
It really does. After a while, you get so exhausted that you simply zone out of these tiresome, often idiotic political opinions.
It was exactly the same with reddit, come to think of it...
absolutely love how tankies in here are somehow turning this around to be Israels fault
Apparently nowadays anybody who's not a full blown Genocidal ethno-Fascist who approves when "their" people mass murder "human animal" children is a tankie.
It's like how anything left of center used to be deemed Communism in America, with the main difference that this is the ethno-Fascist (the most far-right violent kind of ideology there is) version so anything less than strong approval of ethnic Genocide is deemed Tankie.
Yeah, like... Somehow people are forgetting the terrorist organization that created the situation isreal is using as an excuse to commit genocide IS STILL A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION. I feel like people are projecting the US dem vs repub conflict on this, and feeling like because one side is bad the other side has to be good, rite? But in reality it's just a whole lotta murder. Pretty one sided sure but it's not like they're killing hostages in self defense. Not out here trying to be both siding but trying to look at things objectively and realistically and for some reason writing it as a public comment so people can yell at me for being antisemitic and antisemites can yell at me for not being antisemitic.
Says the guy who clearly doesn't know the foundational Israeli military groups who would later become the actual Israeli military were avowed terrorist organizations who routinely bombed civilians and murdered Muslims for being Muslim and against Israeli terror.
You speak out of my heart right now. I couldn't have put it into better words.
It got so bad, that I once saw a Comment unironically advocating for the genocide of all Israelis having 200 + upvotes. This was when I put the Israel flag into my Profile.
I'll let you in on a secret: The Israel Flag in my Profile? I'm actually very conflicted about Israel. But the way I was seeing Israel unrightfully being bashed, the Hamas terror organization advocating for the literal text-book-definition genocide of Israelis praised, I just felt I had to put it in there.
Anyways, yeah, I wish we could have civilized discussions about this. But I am afraid this isn't possible. For whatever reason, civilized political discussions aren't possible anymore in the english-speaking internet (the Swiss Internet is still somewhat uninfected, but it also seems to be getting worse sadly)
I wish I could just block politics in general, but I don't want to let the genocide-advocates to reign unopposed. I don't want their opinions to seem in any way acceptable.
Taking Israel's side is like taking Russia's side.
Both are objectively doing the same thing.
That is the Tankie position. End justifies the means. Fascism is justified.
It's you.
awful take
gaslighting a Nation into thinking they're at fault for you killing their people is fucking awful
Do you also think that the US is responsible for 9/11?
Or Russia is at fault for the Terror Attack on the Opera recently?
No, trying to twist the truth so that the anti-western side is the good one, trying to defend them, that is the real tankie stance
I have a question, since Israel has mandatory military service, aren't these hostages technically non-combatants?
Also when Israel uses the logic that everyone in palestine could be Hamas therefore they must be firm in their actions.
Doesn't the opposite logic also apply?
Like technically every israeli would be either going to be a part of IDF or has been in the past or currently in IDF.
Right? What am i missing in this?
You are right. But it is still within the gray zone. For example if north korea assume all south korean are militant it would be disaster.
There are also other issue. Living across a wall separating Palestinian while living in colonizing state on land built on top of Palestinian villages fully knowing about incident where IDF bombed or shot many innocent people is questionable in my opinion.
I believe people who live in these area as second class to the zionist regime. They either :1) want to help Palestinians, 2) poor, 3) sadist zionist enjoying the misery of others. I also think the zionist don’t care about these people, important people would be in the main cities or in other countries enjoying the benefits with no risk to their live. And that is why we see Hannibal directive and no attempt to negotiate their release.
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