Despite the bad press, half of America is still considering an EV or hybrid car — they just want them to be cheaper
Despite the bad press, half of America is still considering an EV or hybrid car — they just want them to be cheaper
A new study shows EV demand is still out there, it just looks different than it did a few years ago.
Claims that electric vehicles don't have enough demand may be overblown.
A new study from GBK Collective, published Thursday, found that half of the more than 2,000 US car consumers they interviewed were considering either an electric or a hybrid car for their next vehicle purchase.
This far outweighs the current ownership trends found in the study. Only 14% of those surveyed already own a plug-in or hybrid vehicle of some kind. It's another piece of evidence of a huge opportunity for EV manufacturers to home in on the needs of these green car-curious consumers.
"These are not the same kind of customers who created the initial EV market," GBK President Jeremy Korst told Business Insider in an interview.
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"These are later adopters, and because of that, they're not as driven by innovation or even design," Korst said. "They have more functional needs, and they're much more pragmatic and thinking about the total cost of ownership both in price and in effort, like, 'how do I charge so what's that going to take? How much time is it going to take me?'"
I'd like one not connected to a hateful, megalomaniacal egobeast.
When the roadster came out I wanted one, but I wanted to see how the brand fared in general for a few years first. Plus I couldn't really afford to upgrade my 1995 volvo.
When the model S was released I wanted one. It seemed practical, but it still wasn't affordable for me to replace my old 1995 volvo.
When 3 was released I didn't really care, because it seemed like a downgraded S.
When X (the car) was released I wanted one because m It seemed to be exactly what I needed.
But then:
Stories with quality control issues with Tesla becme more and more frequent.
EM proved himself to be a complete asshat (I had my suspicions, so I wasn't that surprised when he went mask off)
Autopilot turned out to be a scam
Relying on rental cars at work made me realize how much I hate touch screens.So, I'm still driving my 1995 volvo 940. It will be replaced in march by a 2019 volvo xc90. I see the benefit in hybrid, but fuck tesla.
Everytime ev's come up everyone's a fur trapper in the himalayas that needs to make pilgrimage over 500 miles every other day.
It's not that you need 500km every day, it's that you need 500km often enough to make the average affordable ev with a 150km range impractical. Until there is a reliable charging infrastructure in place, people need a vehicle that can accommodate their longest trip, not their average trip.
150km is the unreasonable part. The AVERAGE affordable EV, especially not Tesla, will easily do 250-300km on a charge. My ID.3 does 340km on a full charge (100% to ~10%) and I’m spending a third on “fuel” per month vs the Fiesta, even though I can’t charge at home.
Btw, I also don’t think twice about driving from Amsterdam to Disneyland Paris 2-3 times a year - that’s 550km each way easily. 2-3 charges, every 2-ish hours, depending on the season and Paris traffic.
People are just afraid to change. Right now, some cars get excellent deals to get sold. Once everyone starts wanting these, kiss those deals g’bye.
Ehh more like a 90km daily commute (+10km wiggle room for errands). However, the 150km advertised range turns into 120km actual range, which in turn gets reduced by 30% in the winter. Suddenly, a new EV (which I can't afford btw) has a range of less than what I need, meanwhile, old ones which I might afford (and are still waay more expensive than a used ICE) have nowhere near that amount of range.
Exactly why I have a PHEV. Battery for daily driving, gas for longer trips.
If you think that's bad, check out discussions about bicycling.
I'm the opposite. I don't drive much. The furthest I usually drive is about 60 miles and that is a once a month kind of thing, I usually just drive around town. And I could even make that round trip with a low end EV.
I have a hybrid now, but if I could afford an EV, I would definitely get one.
Yeah, I have a plug in hybrid and I see that lasting me quite a while. Usually get about 50 miles all electric which covers ~90% of my typical driving. About once a month I drive about 150 miles, and twice a year I drive on a long road trip.
I have seriously considered an EV and will probably get one in the next few years but my biggest problem with them is that all of them have huge fucking tablet screens. I want a EV that has physical buttons and if you are going to use digital screens, I want it in the same layout as the traditional style. IF I have to have a tablet screen, I want it to be minimal.
I don't want to have to use a menu to turn on the fucking windshield wipers!
Volvo XC40 Recharge has buttons for most things (volume, wipers, defrost, ...) though climate is on the touchscreen which is annoying. Navigation on the touchscreen is nice. The software is a bit glitchy, though the car itself is very nice.
But I strongly agree: searching for buttons was a big part of our car search.
I would definitely consider a Volvo but it is on the more expensive end and isn't eligible for the EV rebate in the USA. Still, it is one of the better looking EVs
Agreed completely. We love our Bolt because it's a regular car interior with an EV engine
I have an EV, it has physical controls on stalks in the same place as a regular car for the indicators, windscreen wipers, lights, etc. You only need to use the tablet for climate controls and nav/music - all of which can be voice activated.
My first-gen Chevy Volt has all the buttons. And I mean ALL the buttons. I'd say it has too many buttons, but it's a particular quirkiness that I kind of like; the future as imagined in the '90s. Very Star Trek TNG shuttle craft aesthetic.
I'll happily drive an ev if
- it is affordable
- it doesn't require an online account and app to work correctly
- it isn't an enormous truck/SUV
- it isn't fucking hideous
- I don't have to support Elon Musk
Too bad nobody's making one of those.
- replacing a faulty battery wont be nearly the price of an entirely new vehicle
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If the charging infrastructure is as universal and as reliable as gas stations, so whenever the landlords want to make sure all the parking stalls have at least Level 1 charging
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What about better public transport, I'm ready to stop putting money into an "asset" that depreciates at $300 per month, while the debt jacks up interest fuck me the depreciation on a car makes the interest look like a reasonable tip to your server
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And yeah, twice, the batteries should be swappable, they can be semi-permanent but assume a 2-year replacement time with a standardized installation, fuck paying $45,000 for a really fast cellphone that stops working when the battery does and replacing the battery means ripping the glue apart and the car is never right again. They have to be AT LEAST as swappable as engines.
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Kia niro ev. You can get a 2019 model for ~25k, and it just looks like a normal hatchback.
Kia is also doing paywall subscription stuff. I hate this time line.
I have the nitro ev. Can definitely recommend but it's going to be annoying when every charger only supports NACS standard in a few years though
Still too big and bulky. I want a roadster EV; something no bigger than a Miata or 350Z.
Anything larger than a midsized car sucks in the handling department, and I hate that my country has such a hard on for them.
All I want is a sporty convertable EV that looks attractive and has 350+ HP for under $30K.
Oh and find some excuse to put a manual transmission on it – or at least flappy paddles – without it being a gimmick (edit: like CVTs with their fake manual mode; fuck that noise). Then I'm sold.
There's no such thing as a manual transmission with an EV though...? The purpose of a transmission is to make best use of the power band of a combustion engine, an issue that EVs don't suffer as they are able to provide maximum torque at zero RPM. At the end of the day, all you're ever gonna get is some gimmicky fake manual mode.
Honestly, I would kill for an EV. I'm ready to setup the charging station already since I have a 240v 50a run in my garage. I even do electrical work and could install it myself.
As the article notes though, it's way too expensive for me to consider at the moment. I drive maybe 100 miles a week but it's usually a lot less so I would be a perfect candidate.
However, a $7k or less older ICE vehicle does what I need. I can buy a fuck-ton of gas for $43k.... Including the added maintenance. I'm also hesitant to buy an older EV due to battery deterioration and not knowing if I will have to pay a ton to replace the batteries.
I had a 2014 Nissan Leaf. I bought it used in 2016 for $11k. I replaced the tires once. And filled the window cleaner fluid a few times. That's about it. I charged it off a 110v in my garage. I debated getting the quicker charger installed, but seriously never even once would it have made a difference. My driving was about 300 miles a week. One of the few really solid purchases in my life that I have no regrets about.
Yeah I was similar with a used bolt for 14k. There are some deals if you are patient and look around.
I has an almost identical story, except the battery went from having mild degradation to suddenly erroring out the vehicle an putting it in turtle mode. (I believe we had 11/14 bars left.). Ended up spending almost $10k on a new battery. Honestly, it still has been a good deal for us over the course of the last 8 years, but not as great as we hoped. At least we have a new battery that should last a long time.
Honestly, I would kill for an EV
Why because it’s the new shiny? I bet you buy the new iPhone every year.
However, a $7k or less older ICE vehicle does what I need.
Right but you gotta have the new shiny right?
FOMO?
EVs being new and shiny, as well as that being the only reason they want one, are things you inserted into your comment, not something the person you responded to even implied.
I don't have a car now but if I were to buy one I would give serious thought to an EV. The biggest problem I would face is that I live on the third floor of a brownstone in DC. I have a parking space but no way to plug it in at night.
You can charge off a normal wall outlet too, but those can also be hard to come by depending on your parking situation.
There are schemes in the works to put standardized public outlets on streetlamp posts and utility poles. That will be nice when that's working.
And if you have a dedicated parking spot it's not a big stretch to install an outlet for it.
Some neighbors even have installed one on a post in front of their house while they park on the street.
There will come a time when having a parking space without a charger will be unthinkable, and it's coming soon in my view.
Cheaper and not a Tesla.
And not Chinese chabuduo malware.
Order your QVKZFAST REAL ELECTRIC BATTERY CAR STREET HIGHWAY ROAD LONGRANGE CHARGE CHARGEABLE COMFORT today!
Citroën Ë-C3?
The tech is still a bit immature. The price is still way too high. The grid is still so dirty (in my area) that only the small EVs offer much of carbon output reduction over the compact ICE that I drive now. The user experience of a bunch of touchscreens is horseshit and I will not buy anything without buttons.
All those things change in time and I will almost certainly buy an EV when they do. Mostly I am annoyed that the US EV fleet is being reduced to fuck off huge 7k lb monster trucks.
Theres also the fact that they're all cloud connected now.
I was very eager to buy a non-Tesla EV but now they're all following the same playbook.
Hate to tell you this but quite a few new cars are too, electric or not.
Ugh yeah, thankfully I got a very old, decent condition SUV before COVID that I can to ride into the ground.
It's hard to spend 50k on a new car when my current car is functional.
Hybrids are the clear choice. The new Prius prime is so nice. And of course the rav4 prime is awesome too.
Can recommend the Prime. Used to get free charging at work which doubled my fuel economy. Even without plugging it in, it has been a great car.
The primes are enticing, but not 20k more expensive enticing. The escape PHEV is near perfect (same beautiful transmission as Toyota) but is FWD only. You need to go up to the lincoln corsair grand touring to get AWD and then suddenly it's 50k. wtf? Why will no one sell a sub 50k AWD PHEV?
I bought a crv hybrid. I also work from home and don't really drive much anyway.
Pretty sure the upcharge wisconsin charges to register a hybrid cost me more than the gas I've put in it per year.
It makes no sense to target hybrid cars unless you're also targeting other efficient ICE vehicles. My state used to seperate hybrid from plug in hybrid, but the culture war BS changed that.
A registration upcharge for a hybrid? What kind of nonsense is that? I got federal and provincial rebates for my plug-in hybrid.
Rebate scope was heavily reduced in the past month and suddenly there's stories about EV and PHEV demand being lower? Horse shit. They're just more expensive now.
"Bad press"? If they mean Teslas, sure; they're garbage. But I just want an EV that's affordable.
I think they mean Republican media.
Dealerships also have a party to play in tanking overall sales of EVs with the direction Tesla took and for is trying to take, cutting out dealerships all together.
Fuck, I'd love to make my next car hybrid or electric, but I sure as fuck can't afford one, even used currently.
Tax breaks don't do shit for someone on disability, so I'm fucked in that regard.
I thought I heard they were changing them to be more like rebates? If not, yeah that's really silly.
2024 they changed the $7500 to a rebate, but there are only a few models that qualify
Yep, was just shopping this week and it’s damn near impossible to get a new EV with range worth looking at and under 30k
I just need 200 please, it gets cold here and losing 30% of 200 makes this tenuous. Think I’ll have to either get another hybrid for my wife as they return to work soon or wait for better tech
It's the same here in Brazil, people are interested but the cheapest EV is still very expensive and is just an electric version of a shitty car called Kwid that is now WAY overpriced thanks to it being an EV.
I like the idea of an EV but honestly I barely drive, and when I do I lament the poor infrastructure of my country.
I think more EV and hybrid vehicles should integrate power outlets (V2L), in order to compensate for poor infrastructure.
Yeah they can be great as power backup, or generally as giant batteries for solar power. However by infra I meant roads and traffic sensibilities, especially in third world countries.
I was all set to buy a Kia Niro phev and then a month before they were available the government charged the tax credit and it no longer made economic sense. Ended up getting a new ICE Forte instead
Just make them as cheap and reliable as the dinosaur guzzlers and I'll happily buy and drive one. Especially if you can get that second hand.
The weird part is an electric motor is innately way more reliable than an internal combusion engine, its 1 moving part versus hundreds. No idea how EV makers are fucking up so badly on the reliablity front.
What is a bad press?
Despite the negative press covfefe
”Make sure you spell my name right"
Not going to get much cheaper.
Toyota is correct. BEV, PHEV, and ICE will all be in our future until at a bare minimum charging it's figured out. Prices need to come down as well.
I don't see how PHEVs will come down in cost of ownership at all, the fuel is extremely expensive and the cars aren't cheap either. I don't see it making sense at all.
Batteries are expensive. And they ain't getting cheaper. Manufacturing is already difficult with supply chain challenges. And we're not even close to having everyone replace ICE.
Unless the new sodium batteries take off they are never going get to that point where BEV beats ICE everyone has been taking about four a few years.
By having a PHEV you reduce the dependence on rare earth materials while still giving everyone enough range to get around day to day. Go on a long trip? Range issues gone. The only real challenge is the upfront cost as well, but that doesn't scale nearly as poorly. Prices will not rise as much if we push for greater market saturation of the PHEV category. The dependence on rare materials goes away making it easier for everyone to get one. A minor increase in maintenance is a small price for a vehicle that does everything they need better.
If anything, all the right-wing idiots that say "they all catch fire" or "EV's are for gays" make me want one even more. They're basically doing all the marketing for the EV companies - all someone needs to do is release a solid, affordable EV.
I go on road trips for vacation. like 700+ miles in the day road trips. I wouldn't consider an ev right now because I have range anxiety and charging stations aren't as ubiquitous in the rural areas. if you stuck charge stations at every rest area on the interstates (the ones some states haven't closed yet), I dunno maybe but there are still big stretches of land out there that aren't close to an interstate let alone a rest area.
give me an ev that can go 700 miles in 12 hours and I might consider it.
This sounds doable for a lot of EVs these days. Some apps that have been helpful have been "A Better Route Planner" (directions and optimized stops across all major brands of chargers), and "Plug Share" (reviews and status updates of chargers across all major brands).
Here's a good video of an EV road trip if you're interested: https://youtu.be/1Vm_ASm2zfs?si=I5tAJy1m2MprIVgo
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/1Vm_ASm2zfs?si=I5tAJy1m2MprIVgo
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Yeah, the range capabilities and charging options are improving very quickly.
the only quibble I would make about the video is they made a road trip 100% east of the mississippi where there's a lot of people and opportunities to put in charging stations. my opinion, it was a weighted test. where they made their second stop is literally right across the bridge from my hometown, and I know of at least 2 fast charge stations they easily could have made on the charge they had left if the one they used was unavailable. I would have been more impressed if they went west.
If you take one or two vacations a year, rent an ICE for the trip.
Our last car was 12 years old and we did a 2,800km trip in a rental because we didn't want to run the risk of breakdown in the middle of nowhere.
Because gas prices are too expensive, but EVs have way too many downsides for me to even consider one replacing ice vehicles
The only thing stopping me is the price. ICE vehicles are close to normal price but hybrids and electrics are expensive. I wanted a Jeep 4xe but the markup on it far outweighs anything I save on convenience and gas. I don’t drive a lot though.
Every morning I go by a entire lot filled with Jeep 4xe's they can't sell because they are too damned expensive. At least a couple hundred of them. Where I am as well even the base model they priced just right so it doesn't get any government incentives or kicks backs for buying a EV or Hybrid which makes it one of the most expensive options in the category.