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Privacy @lemmy.ml khoi @slrpnk.net

Why Bluesky over sth like Activitypub?

Is it really decentralized and private?

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43 comments

  • ActivityPub has nothing to do with privacy. It's explicitly about publicly sharing everything you share

  • the most honest reason I read about is probably that former Twitter user who felt out of place on Mastodon or other Activitypub servers because the "Nerds" who care about privacy and decentral systems which were already on it have a different microblogging culture and they didn't want adept

    so now a new competitor gets traction because the people who felt out of place on Mastodon can relife the Twitter experience from over a decade ago
    the fake exclusivity even make you feel special despite the lack of features

  • Well, the one person I know who uses it says it's because he likes having a recommendation algorithm.

    People have different priorities and like different things 🤷‍♀️

    • I like that too and I don't understand why people are so very fundamentally against having stuff recommended to them based on what they're already following.

      • I used to like it, now I avoid it at all cost. The problem is that the algorithm is never neutral, even if it's made with good intentions it can be gamed and manipulated, and it traps you in a spiral where what you interact with is what it shows you is what you interact with is what it shows you...

        I never really used Twitter or any similar service, so I never had this happen to information shaping my opinions. I did, however, feel that the music I was listening to became shaped by the Spotify algorithm, and that I ended up listening to less rather than more diverse music than when I was sticking to vinyl. That's absurd - you have all the music in the world at your fingertips, and you end up limiting yourself more. That was my experience of course, other people probably have different ones. Anyway, I cancelled my subscription.

        If there's a risk for music streaming services narrowing your field of vision, platforms shaping your opinions are downright scary. Algorithms can be tricked into showing you content, which is what russian troll farms excelled at. Tech bros tend to believe the solution is in adding more and more complexity to the point where nobody understands how it works - this is the opposite of how I want the content that helps informing me about the world to be curated.

        I'm obviously not diagonally opposed to algorithms. The choose your own algorithm approach might have some merit, and I look forward to seeing more experimentation with this in the fediverse. But I do not trust corporate interests with any of this - nor do I trust a bunch of tech-optimistic rich man's sons.

      • I'm not keen on it, prefer to find things organically so I usually ignore or (if possible) hide recommendations. But I don't understand getting mad about it and judging people who find it useful. People gonna people, I suppose.

      • I may accept an algorithm IF I can know what and why things have beem filtered. A private algorithm which could be observed and manipulated would have my vote.

        I want to know what are the bubbles I am in snd and be able to remove them so see something perhaps less biased.

  • i hope that everyone realises that the benefit of activitypub has nothing to do with mastodon taking to mastodon, lemmy talking to lemmy, etc but the strength is tooting a reply to a peertube video and having a discussion on lemmy in which all these comments are shared

    … bluesky has none of this

    however, what bluesky has:

    • (currently) the sign up process is easy: you don’t need to understand federation or why to choose a server - you just… register
    • honestly, more people interact in the circles that i’m in (no; it’s not furry: i hear though that their population has exploded though) critical mass is more important than anything for a social platform
    • custom feeds are legit cool af… i don’t have time to filter posts and we can’t expect people to add their own metadata; i want code to do it for me! its like “the algorithm” is now many and you can choose which one depending on your mood… also if you don’t like it you can choose a whole new one that some random 3rd party wrote, or make one yourself

    none of that is intrinsic to bsky, or will remain in the long-term i think (federation implies needing a more complex sign-up process)

    • I disagree... Have you ever actually seen this work, even remotely well?

      Like the way replies work, particularly when you're mixing threaded and linear responses (i.e., Lemmy and Mastodon) is just a mess.

    • Tbh no ads + open source is what draws me to activity pub. Nothing about a microblogging service is groundbreaking in 2023 anyway.

    • the strength is tooting a reply to a peertube video and having a discussion on lemmy in which all these comments are shared

      I'm with you. The problem is that this promise is mostly empty, at least at the moment.

      ActivityPub, from what I've gleaned, is too vague and open ended and under-developed in terms of software for this to be true. The result is that each platform is implementing a sub-set of the protocol and often adding their own custom twists/additions to it. Which means that just because two platforms use ActivityPub does not mean at all that those two platforms can communicate in anyway. And, even if they can communicate, there's no guarantee at all that this will be usable.

      The interaction between lemmy and mastodon is illustrative. Technically they can communicate, and at times this can work well. But the two platforms are hardly mutually enriching each other because the interactions between them are fairly limited in number. And that's because they don't talk to each other well. Some of that is because they've implemented different parts of the protocol. Some of it is also their differences in design and UI/UX that just add too much friction to consuming and meaningfully interacting with content from the other platform.

      What's more, this problem is fairly predictable and has been criticised as a false promise in the past. At the moment, I'd say it's fair to say that ActivityPub has not been proven as a way to enable communication between substantially different platforms. That might change over time, though I suspect the load on developers to make that happen will remain high without some major foundational work.

      But right now, unless there's something I don't know/understand, I don't see the extra-platform capabilities of ActivityPub playin any role in the success of the fediverse in competition with BlueSky, at least as far as Mastodon is concerned which, as a platform, is relatively happy just doing its own thing.

      • I quite disagree. Of course interoperability is not going to be a perfect one to one - that's in the nature of these being different services. You don't want threads from a link aggregater taking over your microblogging feed.

        Yet it's normal for Mastodon users to join in on the conversation here. From their perspective they never left Mastodon - from my perspective, I never left kbin - and you, for your part, think it's all happening within Lemmy. But it's really not. So these things happen all the time, it's just that you don't necessarily notice unless you check the domain of the person you're responding to. Mastodon users of course often leave in the @-tags, making them a bit easier to identify.

        Lemmy is a bit more isolated than Kbin, as it is not integrating microblogs at all. That's a decision on the side of the developers, not a weakness of the ActivityPub protocol.

    • I expect it would be technically possible to have lemmy-like or peertube-like services built on top of the AT protocol Bluesky uses, like with ActivityPub. And I expect if/when that happens the communication across services would probably work too.

      In fact, accounts being "portable" in the AT protocol can potentially make the integration more seamless across different services, not only might the posts be seen from different services, but you might be able to directly access those different services with the same account. Imagine if you could login in lemmy with a mastodon account or vice-versa.

      Bluesky is just one of the possible services. But as long as the invites are private and you can't host your own instance, I wouldn't even consider it an alternative. I think it's a bit early to judge, both its positives and its negatives.

      • It seems BlueSky have explicit plans for their protocol to extend to all types of platforms: https://atproto.com/blog/building-on-atproto#what-to-expect

        Which means they’re coming for the fediverse, and may just succeed.

      • I was going to say the same but don’t know enough about BlueSky’s ATProtocol to be sure about the possibilities.

        In principle, you’d hope they’ve added enough flexibility on there for different platform types. If they have, next year could get interesting as they open up federation. There seems to be a bit of buzz and interest around BlueSky, and if they garner the interest of enough developers who feel like they can make new things on the platform/protocol, then new things could happen and, if they attract a sizeable Twitter migration, go kinda mainstream pretty quickly.

  • i like bluesky mostly because it's the most like early twitter.

    lists are also amazing.

    iirc, i believe they said the reason they went with atproto instead of activitypub was because activitypub didn't do full account backup so you can take everything from one server to another.

  • Not invented here syndrome.

  • "Why Bluesky" is all you need to ask. And the answer is no.

  • Bluesky is no more or less private than any servicebusing activitypub

  • When I entered by beta code to get into Bluesky, I was immediately, instantly followed, which doesn't sound private, an API that lists new accounts?, by funny blogs, photo bomb accounts, and a profile that said, "This is the trans Witch your mother warned you about".

    It's a ...select community that seems at first glance, all in the same think where cogntive reinforcement is the norm.

  • no and no.

  • The fediverse has too many children who cry and throw a fit when someone expresses the wrong opinion, there are very few healthy function adults.

    People who promote Mastadon and even Lemmy claiming freedom because of its federated services, is a lie they use to push tyrannical censorship for people having the wrong views, or wrong think, so they use services like ActivityPub where people are not allowed to prove them wrong, due to how traumatizing it is to read words on the internet that they don't like.

    No matter how bad centralized social media can be, at least there people have to be adults and handle criticisms and being corrected or challenged for what someone posts. There is no escaping all the evil cruel people who disagree and believe differently.

43 comments