Tensions spill across universities like Columbia and Harvard as students on each side accuse the other of a kind of bloodlust
Tensions spill across universities like Columbia and Harvard as students on each side accuse the other of a kind of bloodlust
To one side, Columbia students stood silently, wrapped in the blue and white of Israel as they gripped pictures of the murdered and abducted. Across the grass and brick divide, a slightly larger cohort of students chanted “Free, free Palestine.”
The faultline between the two ran along the claim by each that the other was pursuing a kind of bloodlust – a charge that has divided university campuses across America in the wake of the bloody Hamas attack on Israeli communities and Israel’s ongoing military assault on Gaza.
Reactions within US universities to the killing of at least 1,300 Israelis and the abduction of about 100 more have swung from celebration of the Hamas assault as a legitimate act of resistance to occupation to condemnation along with a demand that it not be used to ignore the deaths of Palestinians killed in Israel’s retaliation on Gaza.
Leading financial figures on Wall Street made a show of saying they would not employ Harvard students who signed the statement blaming Israel for the Hamas attack. A billboard truck drove around Harvard campus displaying the pictures and names of the students, and their addresses and other details were published on websites.
I think they believed people would jump on with the hate, rather than seeing how messed up it is.
Israel is paying for the success of Iron Dome - rocket attacks never really stopped, but the international perspective shows only Palestinians displaced and abused, while a few rockets get shot down over Israel. If Israel wades into Gaza and occupies it, the attack got what it wants, a new South Africa, with millions of un-enfranchised citizens. This outcome was warned about in the early 2000’s.
On the one hand, it's a favorite conspiracy among the right-wing to scream about the "internationalist cabal of Jewish globalist bankers who control the world!"
But then you read something like that, and it does seem suspicious. Like why would "leading financial figures" care who Harvard students support? And who would think putting their personal info on a fucking truck is acceptable?
Note: I am absolutely not saying or espousing any theory that the Jews control the world or anything. But I think that in a vacuum, absent any outside context, it seems weirdly coincidental for Wall Street to care if a bunch of college students blame Israel or for their information to be publicly broadcast.
If it's black it's called a gang, If it's Italian it's the mob, if it's Latino it's the cartel, BUT if it's jewish, it's a coincidence and should never be talked about.
It's not really that Israel is Jewish, it's that Israel is a strategic and financial asset to Western liberalism. And students at Ivy League schools are going to face more pressure to kowtow as they will eventually participate in executive political and financial institutions. Power doesn't demand a grand conspiracy to maintain itself.
The government isn't stopping anyone from saying their piece, industry gets to make their own decisions based on your words and actions.
These university students aren't a protected class, if Wall Street wants to say 'get fucked, we want nothing to do with your position on this topic', that's entirely their choice to make.... and the thing people don't seem to want to accept, is there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. You're not taking on Wall Street, anymore than these protestors are going to make a difference. They must feel real special about the impact they're making!!!!
The boomers spent a lifetime equating blind, unconditional support of israel to benevolence, in the same way they blindly equate being anti abortion to being pro life despite supporting little to no assistance for unwanted children and unwilling mothers. Its FREE and it sounds pretty at face value so they made it their position.
I can read and see the white hot hatred of boomers in power over the fact that younger generations don't value an Israeli life over a Palestinian life or vice versa. It literally seems to dumbfound them that we didn't come to their same shallow from the inception conclusion. Sorry, fuck your team sports, and fuck all the imaginary friends you use to rationalize killing real human beings that exist here in reality. I would never pick a religion or a skin tone to determine who is more worthy to love.
And the fact is, neither the Israeli government or Hamas that controls the Palestinian government take care to spare civilian life. That isn't a Hamas thing, that is a this conflict thing.
And the Israeli government is the force with more responsibility to temper their response for 2 reasons: They're a much larger military. Something something power, something something responsibility, peter parker. Israel always gets a global pass retaliating against Palestinian civilians when Hamas attacks Israeli soldiers, which doesn't exactly scream "keep our civilians out of this." And 2: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip
You can't run the world's largest open air prison, largely filled with people guilty of no crime, and get credibly angry when the prisoners robbed of hope turn to desparation and vengeance.
There are no heroes in this conflict, and with the blood dripping off both parties, Im inclined to be more supportive of the force less capable of defending themselves and their side's civilians.
I strongly believe that in this case, being on the side of the civilians in all cases is not enlightened centrism...it's just the correct side... Do you think the civilians of one side deserve retribution?
Siding with the Israeli government is to support Netanyahu and his fascistic genocide of the Palestinian people
Siding with Hamas (Hamas =/= Palestine) is to support violent extremists.
Both governments (Israel and Hamas) are driven by an urge to seek more power by claiming land and killing their "enemies". The populace are witting and unwitting pawns of that. I am not surprised people back the Israeli government with the amount of propaganda being put forth and I'm not surprised that people who have been murdered and had their homes destroyed for decades are willing to tacitly support the only group that seems like it can fight back. Desperate people don't make rational decisions.
Yes, there are no good guys in this conflict. Israel has spent decades commiting low level offences against Palestine and her people, and Hamas has spent the same amount of time launching small attacks against Israel. They both have legitimate grievances with each other, but it's the civilians on both sides that suffer for it. Unfortunately there's no good solution to the problem, there's too much bad blood between them at this point that any hope for peace would be short lived. Even if Israel and Hamas agreed to stand down some other group on one side or the other would start things up again.
What a shame. These “smart” people should be leading by example and coming together in solidarity against violence on all sides. What a great image that would have been to see both groups protesting the war together. Fools.
You know that only Israel can stop the violence, right? If Palestine stops fighting, Israel continues the violence until they are eliminated. If Israel stops, then Palestine doesn't have to fight back. It's really very simple.
I have to disagree. If this was like the Russia Ukraine situation and one side was destroying and killing people in the other while the other was just defending their country then yes. If Russia stopped today, the war would be over as Ukraine has no history and is not attacking Russia or its people.
In the Israel / Palestine situation they are both attaching each others countries and people and have been doing so for years so if only one side stops, they will be in the same situation Ukraine is in with another still attacking them. Both sides need to stop if this is to end and I had hoped the smart people at Universities would have supported this versus taking a side.
I would take a side if only one was attacking but both are and have been doing so for a long time. I know it is all much more complicated than that,but it really does not have to be. If both sides stopped today, I mean really stopped and let each other just be, it would finally be over. If only one side stops, it will be another Russia / Ukraine Situation which is barely better.
It is easy to destroy, but really solves nothing and worse fosters hate and more destruction.
The worst part about your comment, is that I see the exact same comment but flipped in that it would all stop if Palestine stopped the violence. If both sides feel this way, then both sides are entrenched and committed to more of the same. Unfortunate as I hate seeing the destruction and deaths on both sides including children. Can we please just stop it.
It’s not and they know it. They’re just grasping at anything hoping to mollify the indignation they feel for Israel’s government. They’re digging in their heels, because the propaganda of, “Israel good,” is dissonant with the reality that their manufactured beliefs were wrong.
What are you waffling about. There been less than than a few thousand deaths in early strikes and they've issues evacuation warnings to avoid collateral before launching the main operation.
I see you're already counting people as dead before they're killed. If so, how do you feel about Hamas murdering 9.3 million Israelis? They haven't done it yet, but they want to. Israel of course doesn't want any civilian deaths, but Hamas builds terror tunnels under their homes, launches rockets from their schools and hospitals, and uses the civilians as expendable meat shields.
You are right that Palestinian civilians deserve to be able to live in peace and safety but Hamas is the one taking civilians hostages and using them as human shields. Either Israel has a right to defend its borders against its neighbors who hate them and wish to kill their innocent citizens or it has no right to exist.
I wonder if it's possible to have a well informed, polite, nuanced, and empathetic debate on this, that recognizes the complexity of the situation, existing grievances, and existing hurt.
Given the level of comments you always read on contentious subjects like this one, it's almost impossible on the internet. People have gotten so used to being rude to each other, shouting at each other, not actually listening, the kind of behaviour that would get you punched in the face in real life.
Except now people are taking this style of 'debate' to the real world. People screaming at each other without listening. What's the point? Is it fun? Does it convince anyone? Does it actually solve anything?
Maybe it helps alienated people feel like they belong. Even if in the long term it actually means you end up becoming increasingly radicalised and ultimately even more alienated from your actual friends, family and neighbours.
I don't think people understand that life isn't black and white. These days you cannot even begin to discuss nuance before you're identified by either side as an enemy. I hope it can change
Let's all slow clap for every person going out of their way to say that humans/civilians deserve to live peaceful lives. Good job. Good for you. Here's your fucking cookie for your good deed for the day by stating the obvious on the internet to feel better about yourselves.
But that in no way justifies killing a thousand or so people, injuring several thousand more, and kidnapping and threatening to execute hundreds (including children) in an orgy of violence. Both sides are in the wrong here.
“It’s about standing with the people of Gaza, and reminding the world that these are humans who deserve to live in dignity, to deserve to live free from occupation, free from colonial brutality, free from the violence that Israel constantly is constantly throwing at them,” she said.
“Since Saturday, a little over 1,500 people have already died in Gaza, and a third of them are children. And yet that level of violence against Palestinians is very rarely discussed. Entire families have been killed.”
Avila Chevalier said she did not regard the protest as celebrating killing but that the violence against Israelis did not happen in a vacuum.
“No one wants violence, right? What people who are engaging in these protests are trying to get across is that this violence didn’t start five days ago, this violence started with Israeli occupation of Palestine,” she said.
Desperate people being the victims of genocide and colonial atrocities for decades side with desperate people. More at 11.
Jerusalem has been a significant city of the eastern Mediterranean world for thousands of years, so multiple religions with eastern Mediterranean roots sharing significance for that city is hardly surprising.
IIRC a similar coincidence has formed in SEA where a particular mountain has gained religious significance for local Christians Muslims and Buddhists, although with much less international controversy over it.
The case of the temple mount in particular is especially weird since it's a part of zealous Christian and Jewish prophetic narratives (despite revelations saying getting the rapture to happen by checking a list is a fool's errand and non zionist consensus among jews agreeing that the "third temple" is the state of internationalization and diaspora which the destruction of the second temple initiated) and also being a major site of religious history to Muslims, with the site apparently being where Mohammed ascended to heaven at the end of his life.
There's a church in Jerusalem with a ladder still left up there from the 1800s because all christian denominations that share control over the site can't agree to remove the ladder, so you can imagine how hard the squabbling goes when not even the base religion is held in common.
A bunch of dudes realized they could gain power, land, wealth, and sexual access by peddling fairy tales to the masses. Not surprising that this happened many times, in many places, over the early historic record, primarily at population centers located relatively close to the river deltas that gave rise to the first cities. You know, just human shit. Same as it ever was.
Your brain is fully developed at age 25. Sometime around then I'll start to give a fuck what you think.... depending on your life experience up to that point.