“They had a singular piece of evidence that I had taken something, and it was wrong.”
Susan Horton had been a stay-at-home mom for almost 20 years, and now—pregnant with her fifth child—she felt a hard-won confidence in herself as a mother.
Then she ate a salad from Costco.
Horton didn’t realize that she would be drug-tested before her child’s birth. Or that the poppy seeds in her salad could trigger a positive result on a urine drug screen, the quick test that hospitals often use to check pregnant patients for illicit drugs. Many common foods and medications—from antacids to blood pressure and cold medicines—can prompt erroneous results.
If Horton had been tested under different circumstances—for example, if she was a government employee and required to be tested as part of her job—she would have been entitled to a more advanced test and to a review from a specially trained doctor to confirm the initial result.
And let me guess, she paid for the privilege of being forced to stay 5 days and having her baby taken away from her? Unless she’s got amazing insurance?
Honestly, I’m so glad to live somewhere with public health care.
Omg yes! I perform drug testing and I've had instances where nurses called CPS before we could give them a confirmation result causing mayhem for all involved. It makes me want to scream whenever I see screening tests used as evidence against people. Any hospital or government agency making those kinds of decisions based on a screen should be sued to high hell. Also fun fact really high levels of Benadryl will cause you to pop positive for PCP on most drug screens. I've had to talk a handful of pediatricians down about that over the years too.
I had a fun event a year ago where I woke up in a Covid ward after surgery because a nurse saw antibodies on a pre-surgery Covid test.
I had covid about a month before, that’s why I still had detectable antibodies. The doctors all knew that. That’s why they admitted me and performed the procedure.
You should have to clear something past an actual doctor if some things are going to get escalated.
I'm sorry but anyone who thinks people with thc in their urine are less valuable than people that don't, is a worthless piece of human trash themselves. It's appalling that this is even a thing but more so how many people actually support it staying the way it is.
I was listening to a podcast today or yesterday talking about huge recruiting shortfalls in 3 of 4 military branches in the US. The biggest factor was that the available pool of recruits are 75% ineligible for a variety of reasons, but the biggest factor is past/current drug use. The most common drug: cannabis. Even if someone has used it only once, even if they just tried it, they are ineligible for military service.
It seems pretty foolish, in the biggest recruitment shortfall in American history, to discount your largest possible pool of recruits just because they might’ve smoked a doobie once.
Even if someone has used it only once, even if they just tried it, they are ineligible for military service.
Well that's just false. You'll get denied if you pop hot on a drug test at MEPS, but they don't tend to care if you've smoked in the past, except as a barometer for if you'll smoke in the future. And, like almost everything else in the DoD, there's a waiver form you can fill out for it too
I hope every employer that continues enforcing thc testing in the workplace collaspes. Many of them are already on the brink. I just want to have a normal life and still get to smoke weed sometimes. All I know is that I will continue working towards that goal until I succeed, deal with it.
How would they know though? I know it stays in your system for a couple of weeks but not for months or years so you could just lie on the application form.
Counterpoint: Walked my dogs past a Gradeschool (5-13yo) during the hustle and bustle of the first morning of class. Smacked in the face at 8:30am with the stench of weed.
I think there is a better test. The cheap and fast one is tricked though. The fact they didn't do a more advanced test before taking her child is pretty fucked.
I heard her talking about it on NPR earlier today. She did get her kid back, but it was a whole fucking ordeal she and her family should have never had to go through in the first place (and thank god she had the resources to fight it)
Also lovely way to start a childs life. Instead of being at the chest of its mother, it gets to be with some overworked strangers, not getting breat fed and not feeling the physical closeness necessary to build a healthy sense of security.
It sucks for everyone involved too. The mothers, the doctors, the hospital, the caseworkers, all seem to be locked into a ridiculous position because of poor testing equipment, and overly protective laws.
I'm getting worn out from all the crap to be infuriated about these days. It's fucking overwhelming the amount of dumb-as-fuck shit capitalists, right-wingnuts and generally lazy people do to others, just for funsies it seems.
For decades, state and federal laws have required hospitals across the country to identify newborns affected by drugs in the womb and to refer such cases to child protective services for possible investigation. To comply, hospitals often use urine drug screens that are inexpensive (as little as $10 per test), simple to administer (the patient pees in a cup), and provide results within minutes.
If Horton had been tested under different circumstances—for example, if she was a government employee and required to be tested as part of her job—she would have been entitled to a more advanced test and to a review from a specially trained doctor to confirm the initial result.
Back when I had a job that required regular drug testing we WERE told to not eat poppy seeds. But my understanding is that, unless you have other digestive issues (not sure if a baby would count?), it is incredibly unlikely to test positive unless you are mainlining poppy seeds for weeks on end. Its similar to how getting a whiff of something dank isn't going to make you test positive but you should still avoid those scenarios.
The issue is that if you pissed hot you would immediately need a much more expensive (since you need a proper professional rather than someone who signed a form saying they won't pleasure themselves while watching you pee...) blood test. And, in the case of contractors, they would then need to deal with the union reps who would fight tooth and nail to ensure that blood test never happens and it is just a headache for everyone. And you can bet those reps always insisted people had just eaten a single poppy seed muffin. Same with the Super Important Parents of the nepo babies.
But yeah. It is fricking wild that it is immediate action without follow up. Especially when someone is going to be in the hospital for at least a day or two anyway.
It's actually fairly easy to fail a drug test from poppy seeds.
It's literally where we get opium from.
You do not need digestive issues, or even a ton of poppyseeds.
It takes like half a teaspoon.
Also not all poppyseeds are created equal. Some contain far more/less alkaloids than others.
Source:
I fucking tested it.
Go buy some drug tests and organic poppyseeds.
Yes, poppy seeds are the seeds of the poppy plant which is a large component of opium. But they are not actually opium and your body tends to digest the seeds (which are likely already broken down by the cooking process and however long they were in a jar) different than if you were to process and smoke or inject them. Which tends to lead toward trace amounts that should be below most thresholds... unless you are particularly dehydrated or otherwise didn't digest the seeds properly.
A big part of the issue is that reputable research on how much you can get away with for a piss test tends to not be funded for whatever reason. It is the same reason that it is generally fine to use hemp based products (e.g. Dr Bronner's) but nobody will ever put that in writing because there are too many unknowns and it just leads to a mess.
Or, going back to smelling something dank at a concert or on a trail? Guidance was always to be terrified and run away to at least five states over. But the reality is that you basically would need to be hot boxed to get enough contact THC from that. But the threshold between "someone in this outdoor venue is smoking a marijuana cigarette" and "I am stuck in a cloud of weed smoke" is very dependent on far too many factors. So it is easier to say "You get paid enough to just avoid it"
And of the less reputable studies (such as the "I am gonna eat poppy seeds and then piss hot"), they tend to have VERY wildly varying seeds. So stuff like fresh seeds off the plant and so forth.
Which is why I still find it wild that they would go from single piss test to action without a blood test. But not THAT wild since blood tests take significantly more time and money.
No, it's not easy to pop hot just from eating a dish with poppy seeds and it hasn't been for a long time. The trace amounts aren't nearly enough to reach the minimum threshold.
I would be 100% willing to believe hospital used substandard or defective tests, that she was on another legally prescribed medication that causes false positives, or even that the hospital administered opiates themselves, and through negligence and incompetece, forgot to put it in her chart.
But whenever someone says they ate a poppy seed muffin or salad, and that's the only explanation they have, I'm immediately leaning towards actual opiates being the culprit.
Not saying it's impossible these days, I'm saying it's the least likely possible answer between those two options.
That said, this is the American healthcare system, so my money is on hospital error of some kind.
Back when I had a job that required regular drug testing we WERE told to not eat poppy seeds. But my understanding is that, unless you have other digestive issues (not sure if a baby would count?), it is incredibly unlikely to test positive unless you are mainlining poppy seeds for weeks on end.
Your understanding is incorrect. It varies depending on the sensitivity of the test and the seeds being ingested, but it is actually quite possible for poppy seeds to trigger a false positive on a urine test for opiates, and it does happen. MythBusters tested this in their 3rd episode many years ago. They bought test kits that were publicly available for workplace testing and followed their instructions. They, like you, went in thinking it was just a myth. The plan was that they would continue ingesting foods with poppy seeds until they either got a positive test or they ate such ridiculous quantities that it wasn't worth continuing. But they started getting positive results very quickly, (after just a few servings of either poppy seed bagels or poppy seed cake) and they stayed positive for a couple days. They called the companies that manufactured the tests and were assured repeatedly that it was not possible (because of course they would never admit that their tests can get false positive results). US Federal employers that test actually mandate that their tests have a much higher threshold because of this effect. But not everyone uses tests that adhere to that standard, and many are just way too sensitive.
I loved Mythubsters but they were far from rigorous scientists (and Adam Savage says that every time he talks about Mythbusters to get Will Smith's Tested some views).
Again, there are LOTS of variables involved including even whether the poppy seeds were washed or how sensitive the test is. My understanding is the disposable OTC-ish tests tend to be much higher sensitivity because they need to last a lot longer than chemicals in a lab.
Can it happen? Yes. Just like you CAN pop positive for THC from just walking too close to the stoners at a crag. But considering this was mass produced and processed salad dressing at a frigging costco? That is very much in the "oh god, I ate one poppy seed muffin!" territory. And considering that most of those arguments are geared toward people who will be unemployed if they piss hot, it is going to err on the side of caution.
Because there is a big gap between possible and probable. And you'll note that almost all reputable sources say "it is possible and you should avoid this" in the same way that basically everything sold in California is potentially cancerous.
In fact, for Mythubsters in particular: I would need to rewatch that episode (... I need to rewatch most of their episodes, honestly) but they were always in downtown San Francisco, right? Could EASILY see a case where they got gourmet/organic poppy seed muffins rather than the insanely processed crap you find at a kroger (or a costco).
Going back to hemp oil and THC. From actual tests we totally didn't misappropriate government lab resources to run, Bronners was incredibly processed and safe. But there was also enough variance bottle to bottle that I would never have (knowingly) risked it. We did basic statistics on the 4-ish bottles we tested but... money.
Whereas we also got a hold of some of the oil used at a local spa and that shit would have made Snoop Dogg dizzy.
It looks like they flagged her because she missed multiple check up appointments prior to delivery too, which apparently is a common sign of drug abuse. It really just seems like she's overwhelmed time-wise and really doesn't need 5 children but that's her choice as long as they aren't harmed.
Unreasonable assumption. The usual prenatal appointments are a recommendation, not a requirement. Many people don’t go to them, especially if they’ve already had kids and are familiar with the process.
Thanks for defending a human world which has been purposefully designed to harm other humans.
As the article states:
The harms of drug testing fall disproportionately on low-income, Black, Hispanic, and Native American women, who studies have found are more likely to be tested when they give birth, more likely to be investigated, and less likely to reunite with their children after they’ve been removed.
These are people about whom you do not really care, I suppose, so wishful thinking about how 'isn't the world great?' is more important than compassion for other living beings, in this circumstance.
When I did some reading on this subject in the past what I came across was that there is a difference between washed poppy seeds an unwashed poppy seeds which Is exactly as it sounds. Unwashed poppy seeds have a higher opiate content due to a thin coating on the outside that they likely picked up while still inside the seed pod. That seed pod is the primary source of opium. So, basically It can boil down to what company the poppy seeds were sourced from and whether or not they had been rinsed off with water prior to hitting the market.
I sincerely hate Makowiec, but will eat it out of politeness (and will poke out some stuff due to “gluten”).
Had a funny funny with it at a festival a couple of years ago, just post the Covid restrictions. Had eaten a heavy load of poppy pastries that last week due to relatives birthdays and christenings, and I was pulled into “routine testing” as I was in a pretty “Happy” company at the festival where we all were held over night because some had taken illicit funsies.