Linux for Kids?
Linux for Kids?
I'm thinking about building a desktop with one of my kids and I would really prefer to put Linux on it. My wife is not a fan of the idea, however.
I'm wondering are there any good Linux distros/utilities for children that include parental control features and things like that? And that are easy to use for a child who has only used basic Chromebooks in the past?
For reference the child is under 12.
Fedora apparently has some functionality.
There is also an arch wiki page on the subject.
Linux systems are used all over for enterprise use cases, which means there is a robust user permission system. Usage won't be Googleable with stuff like "parental control" but more likely keywords like "user restriction".
Not sure if you mention your wife because she knows Linux and thinks it's a bad idea, or because doesn't know Linux, and still thinks it's a bad idea.
Of course, when your kid one day learns to flash an iso onto a usb, and install an OS, any and all parental control will be symbolic. Hopefully you've successfully taught your kid how to use tech safely by then.
You'll want to look into browser extensions and blocking websites on your router, as well.
Any normal distro. Kids learn fast. No one taught me how to use Windows 95, or XP. We figured it out.
Lol. I still remember my mom teaching me how to use a computer.
It was fun making Sonic as a desktop background :)
Oh I looked into it recently and discovered endless os, it has from scratch parental controls, an offline encyclopedia/Wikipedia lite an other educative softwares and games. You can use it totally offline as it seems to be made for educative purpose. Check it it could be interesting for your purpose. (You can also download and install more stuff for it of course)
It's freeware of course. Their installer took ages to download, there are torrents of their full version (12Gb)
I second endless os. Parental controls, locked down system, comes prepackaged with many educational apps.
Can't you install the Basic image and then add desired packages that are included in the Full image afterwards?
I think the added packages are just preinstalled software from their curated store (only family friendly and educative software) but that is just asupposition.
I built my kids potato computers from the time they were 3-5, which was during covid. They need computer skills nowadays, and it put them at an advantage for covid school. We got them on java Minecraft which was huge for reading, typing, and some basic math skills (they figured out multiplication for crafting things like doors). I made a chart which had icons of things they want, with the word next to it, so they could search and type in creative.
We used Ubuntu Mate. It's simple, stable, and familiar. They do NOT have sudo on these boxes. As we've advanced, they now have firefox (behind a pihole which upstreams to opendns' family protect), gimp (with a wacom tablet!), inkscape, calculators, tenacity, libre office, and they're starting to get into some cad to make things to 3d print. You have to come to terms with doing a LOT of patient hand holding, but it has paid off dividends.
Thanks for the advice. Yes I absolutely want her to have the opportunity to learn more technical stuff and be able to explore and play games. Also lan parties for games.
I just want some guard rails because we have issues with managing screentime and things like that.
My setup is a bit extreme, but here are my guardrails:
- All users have the same UID's on every system. I'm 1000, wife is 1001, son is 1002, daughter is 1003. All these exist on all systems. Our primary group is "family" (gid 10000). Our files are all owned by user:family. This matters because we let them have access to the share of things like home movies and pictures, and I have a TrueNAS with an NFS mount that their user folders rsync to nightly for backup. If you wanna get crazy, you can put in a whole LDAP/freeIPA setup, but that's a lot (and I did all that as a learning experience).
- They don't have the account passwords. I have their password, and if they want to use it, the wife or I have to type the password. When we want them off, superkey+L to lock the computer, and if they reboot it comes to a login screen.
- If you really go this route, and go the whole LDAP thing, you can also tie that into apps like Jellyfin. I have a huge library of movies and shows, but there's a folder called "KidMedia" and I literally manually symlink things to that folder if I want them to have access. I set up the phones/tablet with their own jellyfin accounts, and when they log in they only see their media. I also NFS mount that share, so for the same reason, they can watch stuff on VLC from the computer with access control. We also do that with nextcloud, so we can use nextcloud talk to chat internally. The tablets/phones have built in android controls, so the idea is once they're on their device, they're free within the ecosystem I set up and they don't enter credentials other than device unlock.
In that case, I agree with the others and say leave this up to the router - not only is it far more easier to set up, it gives you/your kid the freedom to switch between distros/OSes, and you can even swap computers without worrying about having up the controls all over again.
A friend of mine was in the same situation as you (he's also a Linux nerd), and he ended up with the router thing, and after extensive research, he decided to get a Synology router as it had all the features he was after (mainly limiting access times, monitoring and reporting). See: https://www.synology.com/en-global/srm/feature/device_content_control
And for extra filtering, you could also set the upstream DNS on the router to a filtering service such as Cloudflare for Families, AdGuard DNS Family etc.
My daughter had to take her laptop to school last week for her MAP tests (Nobara), and all the other kids with Macs, Chromebook or Windows were fascinated with her computer.
She came home pissed that they all wanted to try her computer and wouldn't leave her alone 🤣🤣
I abhor the idea of things made "for kids". I learned to program when I was 10 on a Commodore 64. And we would wear an onion on our belt which was the style at the time.... Sorry, where was I?
I'd just install a normal distro. Let the kiddo break shit and learn to fix it. Keep backups for recovery and probably isolate the system on your network for if/when kiddo does something stupid. Talk about security, being responsible, etc. We learn through mistakes not by playing in safe walled-gardens.
I appreciate your input, I was also teaching myself to code by the time I was in middle school, but this is a different situation and some guard rails are needed to manage screen time and app usage, etc.
I'm not so much worried about her wrecking the computer and more about her wrecking her brain with unfettered access to the Internet
As a father of three, the best parent filter is oversight, communication, and guidance. People want plug and play automatic parenting on the devices their kids use, but the honest truth is nothing beats actually talking to the kids about what's out there, the dangers, the consequences, and guiding them as they explore. Keep an eye on what they do, and intervene if they start down the wrong rabbit hole. Good luck my friend.
Does it need to be connected to the internet? At that age, I think you could get away with installing stuff locally that they could play with.
IMO you should create guard rails that you intend her to eventually understand and circumvent. Nothing is more empowering for a kid interested in tech than thinking they figured out how to get around the guard rails. Just make sure you can detect when it has happened.
Do something locally on the machine to block internet access. Maybe something as simple as turning off the network adapter. One day she'll either learn enough about the system to remove the guard rails, or she'll find other interests.
I learned to program when I was 10 on a Commodore 64. And we would wear an onion on our belt which was the style at the time… Sorry, where was I?
Totally get that, but we live in a much more dangerous and predatory computer landscape these days. It would be foolish not to take some precautions.
True, but nothing beats out active parenting and communication. Like has been said, you can set up filters all day long (and you should), but the second the kid learns how to install a distro from scratch, they'll soon have unfettered access the the entire Internet. The only sensible approach is to talk with them about what's out there, the dangers of it, and how to navigate the internet safely. Also too, browse with them. Spend time with them guiding them on the wonderful parts of the internet, and help them develope good habits on being a good netzien. Eventually they'll find the seedy parts of the internet, but hopefully by then they'll be less interested in it because it isn't taboo, it's just wrong.
Thanks for bringing up that aspect that is often overlooked in these discussions.
thats how you get hackers
Gnome itself is embedded with parental control and you can enable it while adding a new user
I don't know how other DEs deal with it, but I think all of them has something similar, tho
Edit: also may be a good idea set a AdGuard to set a DNS block for some origins... AdGuard gives you the capability to block several apps and you can customize blocks as well
I would give them full on Linux, just put parental controls on the router.
That's the stuff.
My kids, 9 and 11, use OpenSUSE Tumbleweed. Mainly because that's what I use. They were with me when I set it up to choose a name for the computer, a username and a password (for their user and for the disc encryption).
I showed them how to configure wobbly windows (most important part) and how to use Discover to install games.
I installed Minecraft. I installed Steam (which has its own parental controls). I configured emails, Nextcloud and a password manager. I configured automatic updates.
I think that's about it.
They're responsible. They ask me for help if they need some. We educate them about people they meet online in Minecraft and other games. Works well so far.
We're on the same boat. My kids only know Linux, and I just got my wife on Fedora about 5 days ago.
My 9 years old is on Zorin (his choice) 658-3330 on his PC, BUT and my 10 years old daughter is on PopOS on her PC and Nobara on her laptop (also her choice).
I have full control of the network with a PFSense full of VLANs, Adguard Home and some other goodies, and my wife and I have all the credentials to our kid's accounts and devices.
Any distro they feel comfortable with will do, as long as you can manage it.
I got my daughter a surface book with Archlinux on it when she turned four. She'd previously been using an ipad so I wanted something that had a touchscreen, and I installed KDE as the desktop. She learned how to use it extremely quickly, and has even started in on the commandline now that she's 5 and knows how to read. GCompris is great too.
Me and my wife haven't bothered with parental controls and instead just keep an eye on her usage, but I agree with other commenters that controlling things at the router level seems like a better bet.
What do you think Hannah Montana Linux is for?
My kid, believe it or not, uses a NixOS laptop regularly. He doesn't configure it yet, but honestly I'm not afraid of him having a go. When I was just about his age, I was figuring out DOS without the Internet to help, and while it was orders of a magnitude simpler, the documentation was orders of a magnitude more sparse too. Any of the big, well-documented distros (Ubuntu, Debian, NixOS (for some values of well-documented anyway), Fedora) would be fine. Honestly, I'd even let him loose with Arch at this point, or even Linux From Scratch.
I am hoping that shortly after mine can read & write, and I add a machine with NixOS for them to use, they will exceed my understanding of nix and start to teach me. 🤔
Give em linux mint, and set parental controls on the router, alternatively you can have an admin account which has a list of blacklisted ips, but i don't really recommend that since you'll never have a list that has everything, and if your kid wants to look at porn or whatever, they'll find a website that isn't blocked, also doing this probably means you won't be able to put your kid in wheel group which imo means they won't be able to learn as much
One thing I'd like to suggest is get most of their forward facing apps as Flatpak and let them install software that way instead of using the system package manager (even if it has a GUI). This jibes with others suggesting an immutable base system.
Obviously this may be more of a concern for older kids, but my kid started with Linux and it did fine... Right up until Discord started breaking because it was too old and they didn't want to tangle with the terminal. Same thing when Minecraft started updating Java versions. Discord and Prismlauncher from Flatpak (along with Proton and Steam now) would have kept them happier with Linux.
As for internet, routers come with parental controls these days too, which have the added advantage of being able to cover phones (at least while not on mobile data). Setting the Internet to be unavailable for certain devices after a certain time on school nights may be a more straightforward route than DE tools.
ElementaryOS comes with parental controls iirc
They live up to their name!
Fedora Kinoite or Silverblue as base. They are so stable, very nice to know they will not break. You may want universal blue.
GNOME has some form of parental control too but no idea. I would trust it way more than ElementaryOS, as it is one of the 2 main Linux Desktops.
GNOME is also stupid simple to use.
It may break KDE apps themes, and KDE has tons of nice learning apps. But this also goes for all other desktops I think?
Education:
Educational Games:
Random harmless games
- Gameeky
- surge the rabbit or mari0
- Sidetrack
- Billiards
- SuperTuxKart, 0AD, and all the other classics
Easy tools for learning stuff
- Krita, Inkscape, GIMP
- Footage (very easy and minimalist), Pitivi, OpenShot or other video editors, depending on the difficulty (KDENlive, Flowblade and some more may be the best)
- Tenacity/Audacity for audio editing
- ...
Standard Ubuntu should have you covered.
One word of warning though, don't be too egregious with the parental controls. If your kids are motivated enough, they will find a way around it.
Education really is your best weapon here. Tell them about the dangers of the modern web and computing.
If your kids are motivated enough, they will find a way around it.
Reminds me of my local public library in 1997. They had these public computers for people that didn't yet have Internet access, and the browsers were locked down and stripped with just "back", "forward", "refresh" buttons and a URL address bar.
However, there was a tiny question mark icon in the corner that when clicked, brought up the Windows help system (that browser thing that can navigate help topics). There was a link in there to open IE and go to a support page, and when clicked would launch the full Internet Explorer with a complete menu over top of the kiosk interface, and this browser instance was not restricted in what it could access like the kiosk browser was (I believe it may have been a custom version of Mosaic).
Yep! Such container breakouts exist even today in Citrix !
Shit like this was what got me into cybersecurity
Could you block things at the network level?
Fun fact much of knowledge about active directory and security comes from misusing school resources. (More specifically bypassing restrictions)
lol. I am the exact same. Trying to work around stuff and bypassing just about anything thought me how most things work.
This probably holds true for most of us nerds.
Wouldn't this be a usecase for a immutable distro? Cannot really break it? But haven't used one myself yet so not sure how that holds up.
If you dont have an admin account you cannot break the core system anyways.
I agree that rpm-ostree based distros are awesome here, but Linux Desktops are not made to be locked down.
Yes. And using restricting application access doesn't really work with normal package managers, but is easy with flatpak.
Let the break it, and like other things in life, make (teach) them fix it if they want to keep using it.
My six year old daughter's laptop died recently and I replaced it with a small micro PC. I burned isos of 7 or 8 mainstream distro live images on to USB sticks, then let her spend 2 or 3 hours on each of them over a few days, and let her pick her favorite. I even let her use the pre installed Win 11 OS to compare. Fortunately she hated it. She ended up picking KDE Neon, but also liked Pop!OS and Mint Xfce. I think getting to explore around and make her own decisions in the process helped bond her with the computer and the OS in a deeper way than if I had just stuffed something on there.
Don't put parental controls on it. What do you want to control? Maybe put controls on the website that they can visit, but that goes on the DNS or router. Most kids will go to a mate's house that doesn't have any or as harsh parental controls anyway if they are particularly keen on seeing something that they 'shouldn't'. Parental controls are a fix for parents who can't talk to their kids; they make the parents feel safer but just send the issues underground. Gen X will have been writing code for a while at your child's age. I was. There was no choice if you needed to unlock a game you could've afford. At that time GUIs were a bad overlay over MS-DOS or DR-DOS. You had to know what you were doing to get the best out of it. Your kid will be fine with any distribution of Linux. If your kid is technically inquisitive likely to be good at maths/science, get them installing Arch. If not and they just want to use a browser, install one of the top five popular distributions from distrowatch.com. The Office suite for Linux is called LibreOffice. If you use Chrome as your browser you'll easily tell if your child has been on bad sites because your timeline will be filled with adverts for unsavoury impotence remedies. Enjoy.
PS printers are still bastards in Linux. Happily they're less bastardish in Linux (and Mac, because Linux and iOS use the same printing software) than Windows. If you like your life buy a decent Laser from anyone but HP - my generation bought the last decent HP printers they made.
Don't overthink this, it's a kid. She/He would not be yet biased like you or your surroundings. About wife - I don't she would be against teaching kid how a computer works, maybe you explained it so she heard "hey can our kid spend more time in front of a screen and with my geeky thing" :D.
I have a little smart sister (now 9 yo) that use Linux, it started with her making a mess on Windows login (parents laptop) so I asked if she wants "her own space", but instead of new account I installed whole Fedora on second partition. Why Fedora? Because It works and looks nice, there really is no need for "educational", just install education programs on top.
There are basic parental controls in vanilla Fedora, but honestly there turned out to not be needed, she don't hook too much after first shock of tech and like two cries she learned to stop when we say to stop, at least most of the time. Depends on the child, I suppose some really need a timer, that's up go you, nothing bad with that. I have showed her some games too, she loves everything Tux. I teach her how computer works this way, showing more and more programs with time and every new icon of Krita, GCompris, Goxel or Scratch is new great thing. She has Windows at school, but everything works on her space too. Well almost, LibreOffice does not has 'online cliparts', so instead of arguing with 9 year old I told that program at she uses at school is not available on this OS (after a while of teaching she knows OS is something something wow the desktop looks like :D) and showed how to download search copy from the browser. With being honest and just responding on every little childlish curiosity question she already knows more about computers than her mother. I just made it normal for her, as after using Linux for years it is normal for me.Basically any mainstream Linux distro is easy enough for a child, today.
For kids who can read tell them to press that 'Windows' key, and start typing what they're looking for.
For younger kids, place appropriate icons on their desktop.
I do my parental controls at the network level (PiHole, etc), so I haven't looked much into parental controls on the Linux host, itself.
I have started to favor PopOS, because it is familiar, because it looks a lot like SteamOs, what their SteamDeck runs, when they reboot into desktop mode, in order to mod their Minecraft.
Ummm, their SteamDeck runs Pop? Have you modded it? Because last I checked it ran SteamOS (an immutable Arch variant) and used KDE in desktop mode, whereas Pop uses Gnome...
I'm wrong. Good catch.
Arch linux? :) joke aside perhaps something with btrfs support is handy. you can easily rollback if something breaks. For parental control don't give the kid sudo/root. other then that restricting websites and stuff is more easily done on a firewall outside of the kid its control.
Almost any of the larger distros will suffice i think. Personally a fan of opensuse tumbleweed which has btrfs support out of the box. use a DE like kde/gnome and i think you have a very solid start
When I was a kid I remember being confused at what the installation questions were.
If I were my own parent, I’d explain how the OS can sort itself (FHS, Windows, macOS). This gives confidence for installing and inspecting software.
Next, I’d explain how drives work and how they’re represented in different systems. That means partitions and formatting too.
That would then take me to explaining what’s involved in OS installs, erasing everything, dual booting, retaining personal files, etc.
What does your wife have against linux? All the porn pop up viruses are on windows, and getting your kid on apple is setting them up to be in credit card debt for the rest of their lives.
Even my senile ass grandparents use Linux and they don't complain about every little thing like they did with windows. My dad wanted a Mac but free so after hackintosh being too much learning curve for him I used some random Mac inspired configs from the internet for one of the Linux DEs that I've never personally used, also no more babysitting and virus induced full wipes.
Parental controls I would do at the router level because eventually kids will surpass you in computer skills. Or maybe they won't because of seo and ai articles taking over the web.
I'd probably give them Linux Mint.
If I may ask, why is your wife not a fan of the idea?
I think it was mostly the parental controls we aren't familiar with on Linux and I think she thinks it would be too "hard" for her.
I don't agree obviously
I see. Yeah there's definitely a lot of options especially if you're willing to block stuff at the network level.
Is this for a family PC?
My dad got me a Linux laptop as a kid (I was 10 I think?), and I am so grateful that he did.
To be fair, I already had a huge passion for computing, and it meant that I would constantly toy around with Linux, breaking things and learning how to fix them.
I have been a Linux user ever since, and I feel have learnt so much about computing because of it.
(I started on Ubuntu 12.04, with the glorious Unity desktop)
DebianJr is the easiest pre-packaged distro for kids 7-12.
Under 12, I would keep it fully offline(remove NIC or blacklist MAC address.
Install a local wikipedia instance (or simple-wikipedia) for reference, and give them thumb drives/DVDs for media.
For the fully libre start to life, install Trisquel GNU/Linux and use the DebJr package list to install required software.
If the child is really young, check out the sugar desktop environment. There is an official distro from sugarlabs and there is also a fedora spin (fedora soas)
If the computer should be a little more functional, the GNOME desktop or the Deepin desktop are good options imoI'm doing trisquel on a sugar toast for my 5 year old and she loves it!
dont use parental controls. Its fake, doesnt make sense, and limits learn oportunities. Any Linux works out. Linux Mint works great
dont use parental controls
That's how you get your kid to encounter MLP porn. Or worse, discover Gab and 4chan.
Early access in a controlled environment is a really good way to make sure people don't fall down rabbit holes.
Obviously it depends how old, but if you block a specific website it's only a matter of time before they work out a way around the block
Thats when you show them the picture of 4chan meetups and ask them if they want to end up like that.
Bypassing parental control is a great learning opportunity, tho :D
Probably have a porn and PC game filter to thank for my career in IT
Every distro is essentially the same it's not the question you want to be asking
i partially agree here. Comparing something like Nix vs Gentoo is like comparing cars and plains. sure their both vehicles but that's about the it.
Well, sort of.
If he chooses to install an atomic distribution, for example, he might have a simpler time ensuring that he can help undo any curiosity damage his kids may have wrought.
That's a pretty good idea actually
You probably want EndlessOS
When i was 9 my sister gave me a laptop she put ubuntu on and it pretty much worked for me. I have a pretty good sense for computers and maths so that probably helped. And on another note, no i didnt get trauma from unrestricted access to the internet because i never searched for stuff like that. The first time I started seeing(and thus avoiding) gore/shock videos was when my classmates also got devices. I think if you teach your kid well they will learn to avoid these things but be carefull because other parents(especially today) dont teach their kids about safety. Your milage may vary, im not a parent.
I'd go raspberry pi for kids - gpio projects are fun and linking computer to physical world.
The newer ones are a bit pricey for what they are though.Puppy?
My wife is not a fan of the idea, however .
Divorce!
Jokes aside, Edubuntu should cover you parental controls and Education tools needs. And since it comes with Gnome by default the UI should comfortable to your children. I suggest diving into it if you need more something sprecific. Good luck!
PS: There are some good articles flying around about how to convert your loved ones to linux. I have one measly convert and my advice is to show them how can linux solve their problems.
Kubuntu + adguard DNS and you're done. Good looking desktop which is fun to configure for a kid. Dolphin file manager can show the terminal in a tab, which is good to learn. Nothing compares.
I just installed Ubuntu for my 11 year old and they could use it fine. Didn't bother with any parental controls on the device itself (although I can ssh in if needed) because the network deals with filtering at a DNS level.
I would highly highly highly recommend a atomic distro. It's going to be a much nicer sandbox for someone starting out, regardless of age.
I was installing Linux myself on extra computers we had at 13-14. Adding to the people saying just give them something like Mint or Ubuntu.
Give them a real desktop, like Fedora. If they enjoy computers, they’ll love it and they’ll be excited to learn how to use it.
