Privacy @lemmy.ml haui @lemmy.giftedmc.com 7mo ago

Google Pixel alternatives?

I'm thinking of getting a second phone to ease off iOS. It has been good for productivity stuff but the closed off nature of the device keeps disrupting my plans. Everything is either expensive or ad ridden. (Except floccus, floccus is awesome)

So far I have read about graphene OS and am quite interested. I really despise google though. Any chance to use another device and put some linux flavor on it? I was playing with the idea of a pinephone but it seems to be nowhere near daily drivable, fairphone is starting at 580 €, volla phone (german) 450 €...

Some people said xiaomi should be rootable. But the amount of different phones is huge. The price range is awesome though. I was thinking sub 300 €/$ would be awesome so tinkering doesnt hurt me financially.

Disclaimer: I dont want to go full hermit mode with no sim and a faraday bag. I respect the opinion but thats not what I'm trying to do. I want to write some small apps for my phone and use it as a computer if needed. Calling, matrix and browser should work flawlessly.

Any ideas or suggestions? :)

82 comments

I think you could reconsider your position re Pixel/Google phones. It is the one major maker that allows you to deploy an OS securely on their phone and GrapheneOS is grand. I have used it on a secondary phone for years.
- Seconded.
  
  I have calyx os running on my pixel 4 as my daily driver, with microG so I can still use banking app and M$ apps I need for work.
  
  As you can unlock and relock the bootloader, the device security will still attest to the OS validity so security sensitive apps will still work. You can also put the stock Google OS back on easily at a later date if you so choose.
- I could, for sure. It may even be a great idea. I'll just have to solve that by myself since I'm very disillusioned by google. Its like if the devil made a good product.
  
  But I get your point. Graphene is probably a lot more mature than others OSs.
- Graphene gang gang
- This is the ONLY reason I got a pixel, alternate os support. The data they get from me is not worth much in the end as I already know what I will buy from reading on reviews etc. ads, even when I watched TV, don't really work on me and the ones that do catch my eye usually make a sale for another co than the one advertising. Being ND has its benefits
  
  Google dont manage to get data phoned back with GrapheneOS i seem to recall. I may be wrong
May be check out other privacy focused custom ROMs:

LineageOS: https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/

DivestOS: https://divestos.org/pages/devices

/e/OS: https://doc.e.foundation/devices
- I think that grapheneos is the most advanced one and if you can have it, it's the best choice
  
  I agree. I myself use GrapheneOS. However, seeing that OP despises Pixels so much, I figured these would be the next best options.
- DivestOS is the only privacy focused OS in that list.
  
  LineageOS’ goal is extend software support for Android phones, and /e/OS is designed for the Fair Phone. Privacy isn’t the goal, and LineageOS still phones home to Google for most things.
  
  LineageOS still phones home to Google for most things.
  
  Do you have a source on this? I thought LineageOS was completely de-googled now.
I see two options here really. Either get a pixel phone and install Graphene on it (this allows you to run play services in a sandbox), or get any phone that supports lineage and install everything there and avoid Google.

It depends on whether you need Google services or not. Pixel phones support both operating systems.
- Thanks for chiming in. I dont need any google services. Most of my stuff is self-hosted by now.
  
  Then a custom rom, like graphene is allows you to de google your phone. Although google have embedded themselves deeply into android, the pixels are quite open about unlocking boot loader etc.
- It depends on whether you need Google services or not.
  
  I would get a Pixel with GrapheneOS regardless of if you need Google or not. Graphene does a lot more than just sandbox the Play Store.
  
  https://grapheneos.org/features#grapheneos
Having run other rooms since about 2010, I have a lot of experience with this.

I've intentionally bought phones based on the ease of flashing.

I finally switched to Pixel this year because I'm tired of fighting. My last phone was a non-Pixel 2017 flagship, that was about as simple to flash as possible.

Only needed:

ADB on a pc

enable OEM Unlocking

boot to fastboot

fastboot flashing unlock

boot the phone to ADB/sideload mode

adb flash boot <rom name>

The end.

Pixel works the same way. And, there'll be another Pixel model next year. So I should be able to buy a 2 year old Pixel whenever I want.

I've fought with flashing (and rooting) other phones, which require more effort, and it gets old.

Even with a Pixel I have a project plan with 130 tasks to restore a phone (many of those tasks occur in a single adb install script).
- Wow! Thanks for elaborating. Thats quite a journey and a lot of work to get a phone restored but I really appreciate you telling me this. Obviously restoring a smartphone is at least as hard as a pc if you do it manually because the proprietary „comfortable“ mode isnt healthy for you.
A alternative to fairphone would be https://www.shift.eco/en/ They want to put killswitches into their new Phone which you can preorder for 535€ https://shop.shiftphones.com/shiftphone-8.html

It won't be as secure as a Pixel with GrapheneOS. Grapheneos won't support that Phone officially.
- Jesus. $100 for a pixel or $600 for this. Hmmmmm
  
  Yes, buying an used Pixel 8 or a 8a is what I would suggest. Its sustainable and doesn't fund Google.
  
  But their phone has some unique, inreresting features, like that Killswitches, 512 GB, expandable up to 2 TB with micro SDXC card, 12 GB LPDDR RAM, Electro-scrap positive thanks to the cooperation with our partner Closing the Loop, Designed in Germany/Falkenberg and fairly manufactured in our own factory in China , modular, easy replacement of Battery that has a standard format also used in other products from them,
  
  how are you getting a pixel for 100 dollars lmao
- I'd vote against shift phones. Support is also a crucial part of what you're paying for and most of their communication on their website is in German, which doesn't tell much good about getting customer support in another language. Maybe they don't offer support in English or maybe very limited with longer waiting times.
- Very interesting! Thanks for mentioning it! :)
If you're comfortable with the pros and cons of an unlocked bootloader, you might consider phones on the LineageOS supported hardware list.
- Thanks for the heads up. Will check. Any particular reason for LineageOS instead of any other linux?
  
  Non-android mobile Linux is not mature enough yet.
  
  I think you're mixing things up a bit. LineageOS, GrapheneOS etc. are not what people refer to as "mobile Linux", mobile Linux would be Ubuntu touch, mobian etc.
  
  Btw. do you know about Sailfish OS?
  
  Mainly because, of the Android variants that I've seen, it has the best community and device support.
So, I'm on a P7 with GOS, and truly it is a brilliant way to divest oneself from google services, alongside being probably the most secure ~~third party~~ ROM. I think, they're certainly very keen on it, and laudably competent, updates are around weekly, sometimes every couple of days, because there are some vulnerable (to state level actors etc.) users. It's been great, I have a primary profile that is google free and a secondary for google stuff that I want, and over time I find, at my own pace, FOSS things to move into my primary, so I don't need my secondary as much, until I didn't need it at all. It's great, and now I can move to any other ROM without google services and be (mostly, except for some bastard in real life requiring an app that I can't install in secondary on Lineage etc, at least last time I used it, which will come up) happy. Thankyou GOS. Also, being able to revoke network permissions on any random app (including google services) via OS is Gold.

That said, P7 has some issues, it runs hot (I recorded via termux), and if you live in a hot humid environ, don't expect longevity near the 5Yr security updates promised. Mine's spicy pillow at 16 months, enough to break the seal and accelerate degeneration. I live in a country with consumer protection for 24 months, so it's not so bad (I hope, batteries are special), but in the rest of the world it would suck. I do not want to replace my phone every year, assholes.

TLDR: Get a second hand Pixel (4-7), hence not giving money to google, replace the battery, install GOS. Learn, live, enjoy, at the end you will have learned to live free (if that's what you want).
- Thank you for elaborating! Thats very helpful.
  
  Do you happen to know if the pixel 6 will run iut of updates with GOS like it will with android and other proprietary phones? Because I‘m searching for something I can actually own so that I can use it until it breaks without having a security nightmare in my pocket due to seized updates.
  
  My understanding is that GOS relies on google for security updates (and sometimes the other way around, they've made some flaws known to google). I would trust them to be solid, at least until google drops the P6 security updates, go look up how many years that is. At worst, you can then use LineageOS or something if you need security, hopefully by then you're degoogled. GOS will still work, but to my knowledge, doesn't guarantee updates after google stops updating. It's about as good as you can expect from a ROM, I'm quite happy, personally.
With the crowd here, I have completely de-googled my life, also hate google, and the data mining nightmare that comes along with it....but in the end. The pixel phones (with grapheneos) are the most secure and private out there, or one of the most should say, ya know seems odd that a phone by such a data hungry company, can be made into exactly the opposite. Have had 0 issues since running grapheneos on my pixel 6
- ya know seems odd that a phone by such a data hungry company, can be made into exactly the opposite.
  
  It shouldn't feel odd, because we should have control over the hardware we buy, yet here we are.
You can also look at supported calyxos/divestos phones

Keep in mind that divestos doesn't support any gapps

My personal choice would be just Graphene, without any gapps
- Ok thanks for mentioning it.
if you hate google, you could buy a pixel secondhand, right?
- Thats what I‘m thinking about as well.
  
  Currently have a pixel 6 256gig
  
  Spent about a half hour in a hot tub with it in my pocket on saturday and it shut automatically disables the usb port.
  
  Havent had any issues with it this week
  
  If it helps
  
  (In a sprigen case)
- That's what I did!
  
  That's what I've done for my last few phones. Aside from a battery issue that got replaced on a "recall" of sorts, my pixel 4XL has been running strong for years now. Haven't bought a brand new phone for well over a decade now
  
  How do you buy a second hand Puxl safely?
  
  With iPhone there's so many horror stories. Mainly what they do is buy the phone through some means that opens up the possibility of credit card fraud, then pass the phone on. Then they do the charge back to reclaim the money. Apple then bricks the device of course due to non payment and you as the second hand owner are stuck with a decorative piece.
If your not going to go with a pixel, the best alternative is a new samsung phone with Divest OS.

Samsung is the closest in terms of meeting GOS hardware requirements (it still doesn't) and Divest OS is the next best privacy respecting ROM.
- More so than Lineage? I never heard of them.
  
  Way more. Lineage is not a very good rom in terms of privacy and is an awful choice in terms of security. Both Divest and Calyx are better choices.
  
  Lineage as the name implies is best suited for end of life phones that you need to keep working. Which i would avoid anyway as you are not getting any security updates leaving your phone extremely vulnerable.
I’m partial to the poogle gixel
- Thanks for mentioning it. It feels like there isnt that much of an option if I want something that actually works. At least thats what a lot of folks are saying.
  
  Yeah, I haven’t personally used grapheneos but that seems to be the reigning king at the moment
I am rocking a Fairphone 4 with iodéOS and I am very happy with it. Though I am definitely not phone power user...
- Thats the first time I‘ve heard of this OS. What features do you like most?
  
  FDroid is a native app store, aurora is preinsralled as well as microG. I don't use any google apps and have none installed. Afaik there is no option to have GAPPS with iodéOS. They do sell the fairphone with the OS preinsralled which is very nice and iodé is from france which is a plus in my book as well 😁
  
  I have the same combination for about 2,5 years now. Local privacy network filter is awesome and customizable. Came from iOS so needed a couple of weeks go find all replacement apps and getting used to android, but it working well now. You can use Gapps if you need them but only if they don't rely on playservices because iodé uses microg. The only gapp I use is gmaps. Banking apps in Netherlands work fine. There is a list somewhere in the forums about those. Devs are really fast answering questions on telegram/matrix. And relocking the bootloader works well on Fairphone 4/5 and Pixels. Security/feature updates every month.
I bought my sister a Motorola g52 which is compatible with calyxos and only cost 175€
- Neat! :) thanks for mentioning it.
There is no better phone than Pixel. It's because Pixel has the support for the best alternative ROMs like GrapheneOS and LineageOS. I have a Samsung A53 5G phone, and I have to use Odin to flash stuff.
I went with a Nokia X20. It has standard android, no extra cruft and comes with a guaranteed three years of updates, as opposed to the Google device that was considered obsolete after six months.

It's not waterproof, but that was the only feature I gave up. Cost half of my previous "flagship" phone.

No doubt there is a newer version of this device available today.
- Thanks for mentioning it. Sounds like google is a real sweetheart with their devices.
  
  I‘m thinking of getting a oneplus 6 with postmarket os since I‘m a fan of owning my device. This trend of the manufacturer deciding how long your device stays alive is toxic as hell.
OnePlus makes some great phones in the mid to low price range. I don't know if they're rootable or whatever
- They are. I checked the list for some OSs. Thanks for sharing. You're actually not the first person to recomment oneplus. Whats your favorite thing about them?
  
  They hit a sweet spot of having basically everything. Like the n30 has pretty much everything you could want - sd card slot, super fast charger in the box, headphone jack, screen with no pwm, relatively low price, fast cpu, huge 8 gb amount of RAM so apps never need to refresh when you switch back to them, all the antenna bands for the fastest data speed and best reception coverage area, good software with almost no pre-installed bloatware, etc etc. It honestly is just about perfect!

82 comments