Switch to Linux and spend way more time making sure everything is updated and having to jump through hoops installing things.
My grandma runs Ubuntu and has gotten by fine without the command line
Yeah I’m not sure the last time you used Linux but it’s nothing like that these days. As long as you stick with a well established distribution you’ll be fine. I haven’t had to go in a “fix” an update in a while, even in some of the beta updates they’re fairly stable.
Gaming on Linux is easier now but these Linux communities love gaslighting people. Go to any SteamDeck/Linux sub and you'll find tons of people having issues they wouldn't have in Windows.
Lol I used CentOS over 10 years ago so I know it's not the same. At some point I'll likely mess around with Linux again. It's amusing seeing how some got my joking around and others seemed to take it seriously. Maybe I should have put /s or something at the end of what I said. Oh well
And brick your install when you want to use a package made for an older version of your distro. Got Debian 11? Good luck running that utility built for Debian 10! (or Ubuntu 22.04 and utility built for 18.04)
Mostly just when you initially install like most OSes ; browsers, office suits, game launchers, etc... My mother doesn't even notice fedora automatically installing updates when she turns her PC off. (I enabled automatic updates for her)
Even with my arch Linux install with Hyprland, most of the time I just update before I turn it off. With a terminal command but even that is just
paruand my password orflatpak update. If I had kde or gnome desktop, I could set it up to auto update too.Sometimes I don't even bother and use the computer without updating it for a couple of months or it automatically updates when I install new software.
Fedora. Flatpak. Good experience chheeck.
Just use nobara or pop!_OS, makes everything a lot easier
"Okay, I switched to Linux, now I'm getting this error message: _______."
"Install ______."
"It gives me this error now: ______."
"You have to update the _____ library first."
"It won't let me."
"You have to use sudo."
"It tells me to clone the git via the command line, but git says verifying login from command line isn't supported any more."
"You're following seven year old instructions."
"They're the only instructions I can find."
"You should switch to this other flavor of Linux."
TIHI
I do not prefer apt-based systems, but I've installed variations of Ubuntu (e.g. Mint) on systems for geriatric (grand)parents in the past 5 years and have not yet needed to drop into shell to fix something.
If the needs are basic (browsing, email, printing, documents), Linux hasn't needed wizardry for years. This is mostly thanks to Gnome and KDE's hard work on GUI admin tools, but if someone is going directly from Windows to i3, they've chosen a steep hill to climb.
I remember I had a date with a girl back in the'10s. We hit it off and got back to her place. Wanted to show her a funny Internet video.
She brought out an ancient laptop that refused to boot and said her Ex had tried to fix it with Linux.
I got it pointed at the right dependencies, she fellated me as it updated.
I think this is my only sexy story that includes Linux.
Well, I guess there was this one time I loaned a lonely neighbor DOS 6 disks.
But, that does not include Linux.
About the same when you ask for a good GUI replacement for X and someone replies "just use the command line", like cheers for that men, not what I'm asking for.
AMEN! I asked recently if there was a good Linux alternative to this program I used in Windows called "Bulk Rename Utility" and i was flooded by people telling me how easy it was to set up a script to do what I want.
Turns out the best alternative is running BRU in Wine.
I'd have recommended KRename personally. It uses some programming-esque stuff (format specifiers for stuff), but it's not exactly difficult to do advanced stuff with it.
Krename is pretty nice
This makes me wonder how powerful a repo platform like gitlab would be if it allowed people to suggest software ideas and have people make them. In this instance a simple GUI wrapper for bulk rename command line would be sufficient but I would bet there's millions of things like that, not world changing software just nice qol stuff
I tried to do something very similar recently and every solution I found involved using the command line with regular expressions. Fuck I hate regex. It would literally be faster for me to manually rename the files than to debug the regex until it works.
No need for a script, just use
rename.
"Why even use a DE? Try a WM like openbox"
Well, because a lot of things are simplified with DE functionality, and not everyone has the same preferences...
The WM folks can be obnoxious lol. But it comes from a place of passion and love for the ecosystem so it’s not bad.
I still don't understand why there isn't a terminal-gui (you know, those text but graphical utilities) for basic stuff like mounting a network share. Why do I still need to manually edit fstab?!?
Based 😁
I do have to vouch for sometimes the command line is easier, not with everything but sometimes. Like my VPN sometimes it’s a little slow on the uptake and finding a server all that nonsense but I can also just have a few taps away at the command line and bing bang boom it’s done.
The ones that make me laugh uncontrollably are those Windows disk encryption issues for which the solution is…wait for it… run Linux from a LiveISO, fix the disk with Linux, then reinstall Windows. Because Windows is incapable of fixing its own issues that it itself caused.
As a former computer service technician, we used Ubuntu Live USB and DVDs (yes it was a long ago) a lot.
I remember something happened to my family's Windows computer once. A system file had gotten corrupted somehow so it could only boot into the repair utility, which, naturally, couldn't repair the file.
The solution I found on Google was to put in the installation disc (I think it was Windows 7?), run the disc at startup (by switching the boot order in the BIOS), and fix it using Command Prompt on the disc.
Windows' own diagnostic tool included with the OS couldn't fix the problem. Only the disc could. It was pretty fortunate we still had that thing. Until then, it had just been sitting there collecting dust.
Windows lacking tooling to fix issues caused by its own malfeasance was what made my switch to Linux permanent. I used a LiveCD to fix file system issues that Windows had no tools for unless I wanted to pay thousands for janky third-party tools. Once I did that and recovered most of my lost data, I thought long and hard and just said "fuck it, I'll use Linux".
None of my family will run Linux, however, on my recommendation. I can cope with Linux's ... selective set of user friends. They can't, and I'll be damned if I turn into free tech support.
No, you don't say "switch to Linux". This is an opportunity to be free from the shackles of being the go-to IT support person! If they say they are having computer problems, ask "Is it Linux? No? Sorry, can't help you"
"Let me Bing that for you"
I've Binged It On and gotten bonked.
From my experience you wind up just hitting up YouTube or stack exchange or something similar for a tutorial on how to do something that could work out the box on a Windows machine
50% of the time the Microsoft forum help solution for any Windows problem is "Have you tried Re-installing Windows?"
- source, my ass
Or
sfc scannow, absolute classicHey, don't mock it like that! It actually worked for me once... Out of the 300 times I've seen it suggested over the course of my 5 years doing helpdesk.
I used to always tell people I use Linux to avoid doing tech support. It was working pretty well for a few years, now my friend just asked me to install it for him. I guess I played myself.
"Glad you are interested <friend>, just follow this simple guide"
The source! It burnses us!
Perhaps the real tech support was the friends we installed Linux for along the way.
A non-technical end-user once had a problem with Windows. A technical friend said "SWITCH TO LINUX". Now they have thousands of problems.
I've been a non-stop user of Linux as my primary OS since before Ubuntu was a thing. I do not recommend Linux systems to my non-technical friends.
My Aunt bought a new laptop to run her eBay/Facebook selling business on. She's not particularly techy but has used Windows machines for admin work for prob 20 years or so. Laptop had no office apps installed and she tracks everything in a spreadsheet. Original plan was to install Libreoffice but it was running some budget version of Windows 10 you can't install anything on, can't remember what it's called. So I installed Fedora. Chromium and Libreoffice Calc open on login, her ancient HP printer works, she's able to access her camera as USB mass storage when she lists items and unattended upgrades are enabled. That was 2 years ago, no problems since.
Cool story, bro. And for every such cool story you can bring up I can bring you a hundred, probably, of people who got set up on Linux and returned to Windows because it was a horror show from their perspective.
Let me give you the clue: "The Year of the Linux Desktop" has been declared with monotonous regularity since the 1990s. It still hasn't arrived. There's a reason for this, and the quicker Linux (and other F/OSS) advocates grasp why this is, the quicker will the year actually arrive.
Until then, Linux is a fringe OS for techies. (And there it excels. As I said, I've been a non-stop user of it for ages.)
Windows S can be turned off, but it does require an internet connection.
I installed Linux to my tech illiterate parents. They are doing fine. No issues in years.
They probably stopped asking you for help and just used their phones.
I don't because I don't wanna be that guy.
But in general these days, I'd absolutely recommend it. Anything in the debian family is just as easy to use as windows. As long as you hook them up with some good cron jobs for auto updates and rollbacks on failures and stuff, they'll be right as rain.
To be clear, I wouldn't have in like 2015.
As long as the distro is stable anyone can use it to use a browser and browse the internet. I had put Ubuntu Linux for my mom on a laptop, back in 2010, she was using just the browser. She had it for 2 years, no problems. She did nothing else with that laptop though, because that was the first time she was using a computer. She was mostly facebooking.
Exactly. My parents have been using Linux for years, they have no technical expertise, and most of the time they don't need it. For the average user, I find linux more stable than windows.
ngl, the "switch to linux" crowd is close to a vibe of complaining that "my car is making some weird sounds" and the response is to "buy a new car!" I mean, it would solve the problem of not having that issue with windows/your car, but it also means you have to intrusively replace your workflow and probably find some entirely new programs to do what you already could, and potentially have many new, less explicable problems, just to not have that one tiny problem that you could live around.
Often it's worse. It like telling people to move to a different country because the roads are better there.
As a petrol head, that is a very convincing argument to move.
"My ISP, the only ISP available where I live, is terrible and unreliable."
"You should move."
That's the "switch to Linux" energy in a nutshell.
Yeah nah I think of it kinda like the whole custom ROMs thing for Android. Most people could care less until performance drops to the degree that they have to switch over
Car is making some weird sounds -> you slipped a bearing, your head gasket is blown, or something else catastrophic, because you bought a Ford/Kia/etc. -> buy a new car
Ehh
More like someone saying
"Then change the station"
When someone complains
"I don't like the ads on this radio station that I listen to in my car on the drive home"
There's no financial loss by doing so, it's relatively easy, just have to find out which frequency another broadcast you like is playing on
But the other radio doesn't play the vital radio show you need for work.
Yes but I don't want to listen to country.
You know, I can't remember the last time that changing the station on my radio required me to sift through thousands of subtly out of date web pages to find clues as to why I just can't hear that one guitar riff.
Well... I jokingly told my friend to switch to Linux - that guy switched and I can attest to it that he is much happier now 😁
I love Linux, but it's my job. When I go home I just want the simplicity of Windows. Thanks to tons of useless certifications it does exactly what I tell it to do.
When family wants a new OS install I don't suggest Linux or even mention it's existence. They get a version of Windows 10 with the bloat ripped out and the inability to upgrade to Windows 11. 90% of tech support calls have been stopped.
What friends I have attempted to convert usually go back to Windows due to Nvidia driver issues but as we move forward and gaming becomes less of a hurdle maybe we'll see more converts. Especially if Windows keeps pushing their whole cloud OS thing.
I don’t do tech support but I can’t relate at all.
Windows is consistently the lowest quality software I interact with and Linux (Fedora) works out to be more reliable, simple, and often better featured.
Got a 2060. Nvidia and EasyAntiCheat were the reasons I performed the ultimate act of heretical blasphemy in installing Windows on my computer
This, any old laptop with Windows xp, 7 or even ReactOS would do tbh, don't want to raise the bar giving a teenager an expensive win11 "Optimus Prime" box
Okay, I'll bite. I've been trying Linux every few years for the last few decades and it's never been anywhere close to replacing Windows for me. I'm not a luddite; I was in tech for many years (MCSE certified) but there just... ALWAYS something that doesn't work right. And there's NEVER a simple fix. Linux for me ends up being more of a hobby than a tool and I haven't had the time or patience to deal with it in the past.
But I'm willing to try again,
Anyone have any resources to get me pointed in the right direction? Which distro to try, how to install as a dual-boot on an exiting Windows machine without breaking it, how to get Steam/Nvidia drivers/games going, etc?
EDIT - Apparently trying to dual boot with Windows on a machine with two physical drives is too much to ask (unless you have a CS degree). Maybe next time, Linux.
I had the same experience as you did: I've tried Linux every few years ever since someone brought it to my attention in the nineties. And it always felt like a hobby instead of an invisible layer that just makes my computer tick. After Microsoft tried to ram W11 up my arse for the umpteenth time, I tried again recently. And it was amazing. Absolutely zero driver issues and it is FAST and CLEAN. No pop-ups or sneaky ads or any of the other things that make me feel like a tenant on my own computer. I now have a dual boot setup Ubuntu/W10, where I really only still use the W10 boot for games. And I have my office and audio software living in separate VM's that I can use regardless of which OS I booted into at the start.
It's awesome.
Yeah it's both windows going the Facebook route, and Linux getting quite user friendly IMO.
I'm checking out Linux Mint since a bunch of years and now everything is a breeze, or already installed. Sure, I have learned a lot along the way, and maybe I use less specific softwares and more a browser, but still I feel it's (I haven't checked out gaming yet) become a quite mature os.
And its inherent security that windows doesn't have (I know it's not "full security" or anything but at least an account is locked in in its own world) makes my Linux pop a command line instantly and my corporate (both thinkpads, corporate is faster) takes 30+ seconds to 'verify' over the internet that I'm not hAcKiNg I guess...
I have never been as close as this to switch main PC to Linux :-p
Three distros usually get recommended as fairly hassle-free. Ubuntu (personally haven't used since 2012 or so, don't like that they started advertising stuff), Linux Mint (haven't used in years either, but through no fault of Mint - I changed to something less hassle-free, Gentoo) and Pop!_OS. The latter uses customized Unity, but is working on its' own desktop environment. I have a feeling that when they're finished with it, it will be very user friendly (maybe not the FIRST release, but certainly the later ones).
Mint and Pop!_OS are both based on Ubuntu, so you'll have the vast repository of knowledge that is AskUbuntu to help you with most things.
So get one of those 3 distros and you'll be good! They come in different flavours (desktop environments), I believe GNOME is the most polished one, KDE (on
Also there's two new methods to install software - flatpaks and snaps. Flatpaks are considered the better standard and are supported by Linux Mint and Pop!_OS out of the box and Ubuntu... tries to force you to use snaps. Flatpak is decentralized and anyone can host a store (but mostly you just need Flathub, which is configured by default on most distros I believe). Snap is centralized and its' backend is closed-source, so you're dependent on Canonical.
Both of these install your software in a sort of sandbox that manages the dependencies - this means there should be no library version conflicts, so it doesn't matter what the system version of library X is, the application can use whatever version it needs. Should be a way to reduce compatibility issues on your Linux system, I believe - I haven't tried them yet, mostly because I minimized my kernel to the point where flatpak was complaining about missing some filesystem driver, and I didn't care too much about getting it to work. Will do it soon though.
As for gaming - Pop!_OS has an image available that comes with nVidia drivers straight out of the box, but the other ones I suggested, will also allow you to install them easily. Steam can be installed via apt (may require configuring a secondary repository) or flatpak (Flathub has it!). Once you have Steam installed, playing Windows games is as easy as checking compatibility on Protondb and seeing if there are any tips on whether you should use a non-default Proton version or add command-line options. But most games without draconian kernel-level anticheats work nowadays. New AAA games that don't work on default Proton get support fairly quickly on the GloriousEggroll fork of Proton, but that has to be installed manually (I guess nowadays there's an utility that can handle it too). However, oftentimes, a brand new game will work right away on existing Proton versions too. And sometimes there are regressions, so you may also want to try older Proton versions for some games. But that's as simple as changing a setup option in the Steam GUI. No terminal-fu required.
Overall, it's actually fairly pleasant compared to what it was 10 years ago, when you had to configure wine and pray. Proton handles all that for you. If you're a patient person and can wait a few weeks or months after a game comes out, it's very good, otherwise it can be a bit hit and miss.
You CAN also play non-steam games using Proton via Steam. I played through the entirety of AC Valhalla that way, by adding Ubisoft launcher as a non-steam App. Completely unsupported so it doesn't have a special config like it does for officially supported games, but it worked, just had to change the version to something old
Yeah ignore the people in this thread. I've been using Linux for the past year and a half, and it's the exact same experience for me. And I am definitely more technology literate than the average person.
As much as people want to believe that Linux is easy and hassle-free, it's not, and it is a long way off. They are biased because they have technical knowledge so they don't see the problems that the average user would have.
That being said, I do like Linux. There's a reason why I still use it despite all this. But it's up to you if it's worth it.
Edit: Also all the people recommending Linux Mint, in my experience, it was horrible! Very unstable, and not even very customisable. I feel like I'm going crazy. Can someone explain why it's so popular? Was I doing something wrong?
It's definitely different environment so there are lots of small things that you have to get used to.
In all my years of using Linux I have used about every major distro there is. I still stick to the old and tried advice, if people want hassle free distro, they should use Ubuntu.
I'm not happy with snaps but that's a minor flaw. It still provides the best out of the box experience for people who just want stuff to work.
Dual-boot can be set up at the installation process automatically. Just make sure you have enough space on your NTFS for the installer to make it smaller and stay alert that you pick the correct partitioning scheme on installation "install Ubuntu alongside Windows". Steam, Nvidia drivers all just work on Ubuntu. No need to tinker.
Linux will only be the solution when it finally learns to adequately cater to a better class of idiots. Once Linux handles a fool as well as Windows, then we can talk.
Doesn’t even have to be a "class of idiots". It would be enough if stuff didn’t just sometimes break, seemingly randomly. (It’s not quite random, obviously.)
Recent example: I had OpenSuse TW recommended because of its reliability. First tip: install codecs, which requires adding the Packman repository. Now, simply updating threw up errors several times because Packman and the other repositories are apparently not in sync, and some dependencies would break if I updated. (Waiting a few days "fixed" it, but still shouldn’t happen.)
Depending on which update method you use (Yast/Discovery/zypper/update widget) you get different error messages, most of which are not informative. This is for an established distribution known for its reliability, and this alone would keep me from ever recommending it to normal users, even moderately tech-savvy ones.
Things are getting better, but I’m still shopping around for a distro that just works. Perhaps that new Fedora version, or one of the immutable ones, now that they are getting popular.
Ubuntu does this well with gnome shell, where it's more like using a mobile device that a desktop. To be truly idiot proof you just need to prevent actually interesting software from being installed :D
I have linux at work. Colleagues use windows. They always tell me to change back to windows when I en ounter problem. I won't install spyware.
username checks out
As someone who has had been around Linux-based people and whenever I have had a single gripe about Windows - it's this.
I don't have a hate boner with Linux, I just feel like Linux is a little too much for the average casual user. Everything is fine until they run into a single issue with Linux, if the bewilderment of not having their familiar easy to run programs that they had on Windows wasn't a turn off for them from the get-go.
I would disagree with "average casual user" or maybe I think about them differently. For me average casual user now is completely fine with Linux distribution like Mint or Ubuntu or similar (or maybe chrome os). And with that they are little bit safer online as they are usual targets and victims of malicious software etc.
I think casual users are type of people completely happy with internet browser, media player, image viewer and just basic software ... They are usually satisfied with regular Android phone Wich is enough for everything they do in computer space.
This type of users (like my mother and other members of family) are fine with major Linux distros. They don't care about OS they use, it means nothing to them.
This is where I draw the line when suggesting Linux to people. If they don't know and don't care ..Linux is usually fine. If they are aware of what type of os they use or even what version ( talking about Windows) I will suggest Linux only if they are open to it and I'm willing to help and recommend some software alternatives.
This is the way
This is the way
Windows issues?
Windex stands for WINDows EXit so they're the same thing anyway
Nah bro, don't get let yourself get locked into shit, get both, just get one laptop running two o.s and use whichever one suits the job you're trying to do
I have almost my whole family on opensuse tumbleweed and even my mom can hit the update button in the notification panel. One brother on arch and the other on windows. Guess which computer I'm reluctant to touch even with gloves on. And it has nothing to do with the operating system, it's genuinely disgusting.
Arch be in them context clues.
My guess your brother with Linux? It's probably used as a wank machine with privacy feature built-in no need to worry Microsoft looking into your browser history lmao.
Bird 1: I have some trouble with Linux.
Bird 2: Whistles and flies off…
No, bird 2 then screams at bird 1 for using Ubuntu and recommends <FLAVOR OF THE MONTH HERE> distro that will totally work and is totally easy to use despite the lack of documentation. It's then bird 1's fault if they can't get their niche hipster distro to work.
Every time I try Linux on my own, it's fine. But God forbid I ever use any device that comes with Linux pre-installed, and I'm cursed. I'm on my third steam deck after it software bricked itself, and our university Linux server is so unstable that it disconnects my session with vim every 30 minutes or so. Pain. At least there's a method to the madness: trust nobody but myself :P
Screen and tmux are your friends in this situation. They can keep your vim session alive when your SSH connection drops, so you can reconnect and continue where you left off.
Screen change my relationship with linux. Amazing tool (once you disable vbell)
Oooh, I might have to give that a shot tonight. Thanks!
I'm using Byobu, which is (apparently) a wrapper for screen and tmux, providing things like sensible hotkeys (F2 new tab, ctrl+F2 vertical split etc).
Granted, I haven't used regular screen or tmux, so I'm not sure what they have compared to byobu. Someone just said to use it, and I never went back.
Have you tried using Mosh? It's the "Mobile Shell" which was built to survive the dodgey connections of WiFi, mobile/cell and long distance SSH connections. Well worth a look if you're having problems with a disconnecting shell.
It's available on all versions of Linux, iOS, Mac and Android.
Might have to give that a rip! Thank you :)
Holy hell, three Decks? How did they get bricked? I've had mine since the second shipment batch and beyond some very early software issues it's been pretty solid.
Yeah, the first one was DOA, the second (in the most amazing of ironies) started downloading an update by itself, which dropped my game down to 10fps. When I restarted the deck and the update applied, it corrupted everything so badly that even the BIOS wasn't left intact. Nothing I did or valve support could do could bring it back, even with reflashing the OS. And while I might be a moron, I've also been building/watercooling PCs and tinkering with OSs for well over a decade. That deck was bone stock and on stable channel xD
I'm on my third one now, and so far it's been smooth sailing...mostly. I still haven't put a screen protector on it, because I think that jinxed my last two, lmao. Thank God everything is backed up.
Hey I had an old Samsung I bricked and unbricked at least four times once
Really though, switch to Linux.
Unfortunately that's the only reasonable advice. Did it myself a few years ago and it was painful for like 3 months and now having to use corporate BS à la Apple / Microsoft seems bafflingly limiting and counter intuitive to me.
For my servers, already done. For my daily driver? Hell no.
Windows sucks but no one seems to realize this because they're too comfortable with how they fix, or work around, the broken stuff repetitively. The repetitiveness of the bad experience becomes "normal" so nothing is amiss. It being broken is "normal" so in their eyes it "just works"TM. It's almost like a form of brain washing.
It really is akin to people in domestic abuse situations who are just so numb to it they aren't motivated to get out.
Maybe we should be taking a book from domestic abuse counseling or something?
"Have you tried turning it off and on again?"
I honestly can't tell if you are making an ironic joke
No joke at all. It's literally impossible to talk sense to anyone about how bad Windows is.
I've done tech support for 20+ years with the first half being Windows support exclusively and the second half being largely, but not entirely, Linux support. Windows support is much much harder than Linux. Most linux errors are verbose and can be searched to find a wealth of sources of possible fixes. MS errors are nonsensical and usually land you on only one or two other posts that if they don't work you're entirely screwed.
I can install Linux in about 15 minutes start to finish including all my commonly installed apps. Windows takes 45min minimum on a good day and if you already know which things are in the drivers DB and which things require third party downloads and installs (and where to get them). That's just OS and drivers. Software takes much much much longer from all the diverse third party sources. You could maybe cobble together some powershell or something that gets you like 90% of the way to the speed of installing Linux and software. But you're still going to have some stuff without the API access or CLI inputs that just can't be scripted.
Battery life and heat production running Linux is much better because it doesn't spend all your free cycles exfiltrating your data to MS so machines just run faster, smoother, cooler and with better battery life.
At no time do you have to pay for or worry about licenses just trying to install the damn OS. If I had a dime for every person I've known in my life running windows unlicensed with that sad black background and that persistent watermark I'd have enough money to afford a single windows home license ($139 Retail).
I could go on. But why when, as noted, no one is going to give it the time of day.
In the last decade the only serious troubleshooting I've had to do is on non-Windows OSes. Including an install of Ubuntu that I blew away because it froze in the middle of an upgrade and couldn't load into the OS anymore.
So, speaking from personal experience, Windows is what I use when I just want stuff to work. Other OSes are fun when I have time to kill trying to figure out how to do things.
The thing is, many of us know Windows better than our back yard, because it hasn't changed much in the past 14 years (Win7). What we might call "basic troubleshooting" might be on the same level as a similar issue on Linux if you knew nothing
If a had a nickel for every windows system that I've had to reformat due to a botched upgrade I'd have a small jar of nickels.
I've been using distros since Kubuntu 6.06. While I have dual boot, Ubuntu MATE is what I use everyday.
A little over a month ago I built a new PC on the AM5 socket platform (modern hardware). The ASUS motherboard has a built-in Wi-Fi adapter. Windows 10? It just works, it simply required installing a driver at most. Ubuntu 22.04? Even lspci doesn't properly identify the adapter name. Now I have to hope that I can find a driver that I will have to compile and hope it to work.
Unfortunately, GNU/Linux distros still aren't as convenient as Windows. Blame the hardware manufacturers in this case or whatever but, in any case, the final experience is not smooth.
Half a year ago I started using Ubuntu for work. I hate it. Everything I want to do I can do with windows as well, just easier. Much easier. What I'm left with is a lot of theoretical benefits I'm never going to use and a whole lot of Googleing how to do basic things.
On top of that the system isn't nearly as stable as Windows. Tons of display issues and even crashes. On a fresh install on a new developer laptop nonetheless. Speak for yourself, but for me the experience on Ubuntu is worse in almost every way.
First time I agree with the Raven. Switch to Linux!!! Windows is just a shitshow, we all watch and can't believe they are doing this. Win 11 will bring us one of the biggest hardware-waste ever in a world where we should spare with resources.
But hey, throw that 4GB RAM machine in the trash bin everyone wants Win11. So glossy and shiny, so hot right now.
Do you know what makes windows great? It just works out of the box with broad driver and software compatibility. Extensive hardware support (Windows 10 runs on any brand new hardware as well as old hardware from 12 years ago). Many professional software applications, such as Adobe Creative Cloud, Autodesk products, and Microsoft Office, are primarily developed for Windows. If you rely on specific professional software, Windows offes better compatibility and support.
Linux offers better security and has a large repository of open source software as well as being very developer friendly. If you're reading this it's thanks to Linux. However switching to Linux isn't a viable option for everyone for the aforementioned points. It surprises me to this day how many smart and tech savvy individuals still can't grasp this concept.
Yeah, I'm going to have to call you on that whole "Windows just works"TM business. I just had to install drivers, during setup, for a regular hard drive in Windows Server 2019. Last time I tried to run the game Rust on Windows 11 it just wouldn't run and I blew hours and never could find a solution. Had to go back to Win 10 to get it to run. It's also pretty easy to pay attention to any news feed and see an endless string of Windows is now broken like X on basically a weekly basis at this point. MS Fired their entire QA team and only tests on virtual machines now. Zero surprise Windows breaks in all sorts of new and interesting ways when it finally meets the real world. Anyone who makes this statement is at best naive and at worst a bold face liar/shill. I do try to assume most people are the prior of course.
That said the rest of your statement is spot on. Right tool for the right job will never not be relevant.
Extensive hardware support is not really true. Windows is supported by hardware manufacturers because it's popular, but Microsoft isn't the one making drivers. So Windows doesn't have extensive hardware support since after installing the OS you have to spend time installing drivers which manufacturers made otherwise it's almost unusable.
The whole point of an OS is to streamline the process it takes to run your applications. No matter how great it is for you, Linux does not do that for everyone.
Unfortunately I've definitely been the raven at least once.
After I installed Linux on all my family laptops all OS problems was "surprisingly" desapeared.
Because they don't work or because they don't know how to use them anymore? ;)
No one's opened their laptop in months, not a single issue to fix, that's what we call problem solving!
I can only imagine the shit show that would commence if I put Linux on my mom's laptop
Mom sms: It's asking for permissions again, I forgot my password!
Me: It's in the notebook, mom.
Mom: I can't find the notebook!
Me: Last I saw it, it was on the coffee table.
Mom: Found it!
...
Mom: It doesn't work!
Me: Are you looking at the brown notebook or the pink one?
Mom: Yes!
Me: Yes what? Are you in?
Mom: Yes, I have a notebook and the password doesn't work!
Repeat forever.
"How do I connect to my printer?"
Cups
Like magic.
That used to be me. Now whenever someone ask me to fix their computer I'm like "no hablo windowes"
Of course I know him, that's me!
It's not coming completely out of nowhere. The fact that you're having a discussion on Lemmy means the people you're conversing with are aware that you're willing to consider libre alternatives to shitty mainstream tech.
Reddit fucked it a lot harder than Windows has though, Windows might do annoying stuff but it does work and I don't need like, a Windows is fun app to make it do what I want it to. Mostly.
I at least modify the layout Windows to be more like 7.
Right. Yes. I limit this behavior to Lemmy. And definitely not unprompted at random social gatherings.
I used to suggest linux to my friends and family but i stopped doing that as i found none of them actually cared what OS they ran. They also have a misunderstanding that Linux is very complex and difficult to use.
I've virtually given up on suggesting anyone do anything lol. Nobody ever wants to learn anything new. Old dog, new tricks, but the old dogs in my life are only like fucking 30 years old lol.
I stoped suggesting and just installed linux. They really don't feel the difference and it became so much easier to maintain.
I did. But then I just ended up having to google how to fix linux issues nonstop so I switched back
I used linux for ten years, but have to use windows for work now. I have the same problem. Only difference is I have to Bing how to fix windows issues.
windows just seems so much more user friendly. I converted an old laptop to linux to use it as a media server and pretty much everything i did needed a google search, and then whenever i did what google told me id get an error running sudo apt update which then required me to google search, which then caused an error, which then…. wash rinse repeat
gave up and got the media server running in like 20 minutes after fighting with linux for ~2-3 weeks
No. Absolutely no. Bill Gates would cry.
I've been trying to switch to Linux for 30 years now and am still trying to figure out permissions. Best of luck!
Can't have permission issues if you
777everythingI did that one time, it turns out that if everything is 777 major faults will occur due to security measures (see: sudo not working anymore)
You get a rwx!
You get a rwx!
You get a rwx!
Does that make it crash into an ocean? /s
Permissions is my favorite cheese. I enjoy some on my pasta dinner every night I get the chance to. Some days Im like 750 with my permission, maybe even 755 when we got guests over, but when I'm feeling hungry i bring out the 700 permission cheese
Hmm, is James Bond fully accessible to others but not himself or his family/friends?
If you figured out how logging into any site works, you can figure out permissions. Claiming that after "trying to switch" for 30 years and still are unable to figure out permissions means either you are lying or not trying to switch. And mind you not wanting to use it or not trying to switch is fine, but making mountains out of mole hills is just disingenuous.
Why? So I can have more trouble? :P
Yeah not a very big fan of trying to get people to switch platforms especially if they are non-technical as if they A) have the mental bandwidth to change their whole workflow paradigm to appease someone else’s ideals, and B) even have a use case where Linux is an option
Anyone’s negative feelings for Windows and Office’s telemetry or Apple’s walled garden is justified but if I do know what Linux is, I didn’t decide to use Windows because I wanted to lick bill gates’ boots, I have a specific use case. And if I don’t know what it is, I probably need the OOB usability that Windows and OSX offer
No it's simple, if everyone is using Windows for engineering software, making everyone switch to Linux is going to have to involve a whole group, if you're one person, you've got very little incentive to change your whole workflow
Try turning it off and on again and then try switching to Linux.
Well you have to turn it off to get into the boot menu don't you?
Replace some troubles, with different troubles. Brilliant, as usual...
Most birds have trouble with windows. Especially when they are polished and super shiny
God bless, it happens in the other direction too.
I've had my own problems with Linux, it mostly depends which problems you prefer
Where did you get this picture of me?
SWITCH TO LINUX
You don't have to even use Windows. Even Ubuntu will do sometimes lol
Pop!_OS has made things even easier than Ubuntu now. At least from a default look, feel, and getting started quickly perspective.
Yet to try this
True. Ubuntu was certainly matched and even surpassed in these areas. But you'll always have people who are like "just switch to this XY distro they don't have that problem" who are just as loud lol
Oh, I'm sorry. Is there supposed to be some kind of joke here??? This strikes me as perfectly reasonable!
can't have windows problems if you uninstall it
Literally me at work
It actually works
The problem is windows
Gonna have to upgrade to DOS I'm afraid
Mfw I hit the limit of Windows pathing.
Yea, when this happens I am the crow in the meme.
Me too.
I dual boot just so I can still have programming software for many of my ham radios. Planning on getting a graphics card soon and then I'll use windows for that and fallout 🥴
ime fallout (3/nv, haven't tried 4 since release) actually runs muuuch smoother on my linux install. modded out too
I've played nv on Linux install without issue! That was def fun. My guilty pleasure is 76, I've had a good group on there and we enjoy it. My old hand me down desktop I had to keep a box fan blowing on it because the graphics card would overheat and freeze the PC when playing ANY game. Finally got tired of that jank and moved my SSDs to a small form factor PC that runs absolutely great and I've got a sff graphics card in my plans. It won't be fancy, but it'll be waaaaay better than the 3 and a half foot tall gaming PC I was using that was constantly overheating. I don't have the disposable $ to just get a new setup but I've always been decent at making something work way better than not having anything.
If you have fallout on steam it should be compatible through proton, and it'll probably run better on your Linux install.
Neat
I would love to switch completely to Linux, but the Engineering software I use is specific to Windows and their certified drivers (Solidworks). However, my home computer may get the switch sooner than later! I love how well SteamOS works and now I want it on my main machine.
Tried FreeCAD?
Unfortunately I have and there is currently not any Foss alternative to solidworks. The number of extensions and features and ui automation options is crazy. I would suggest cracking it but that might not make an employer comfy
Edit: on my home computer I have been using manjaro and endeavor exclusively for a few years. I am an advocate of Foss and Linux. I hope something does become available.
Unfortunately not every game I play has anticheat compatibility, otherwise I most likely would tbh.
VIM VIM VIM
I use macOS for Work, Linux for Personal stuff, Windows for Gaming. I still prefer Linux to anything. It's lightweight, FOSS, privacy respecting and fast. I have mint installed on my 11 yo laptop, and it still kicks like a warhorse during web development.
Unless Linux starts getting support from game developers, I'm not switching
Nearly all games work flawlessly on Linux now thanks to Steam and Proton.
I was amazed yesterday. I tried L4D(1) on native GNU/Linux Steam (Ubuntu) and it just worked after installing the game, zero tweaking. No need to set up Steam for Windows with WINE or anything.
True, games are a big part of why people have stuck with Windows I think. The app store definitely isn't much to go by
As a complete casual Linux user (made the switch last year), all the games I previously played on Windows work on Linux smoothly with minimal or no intervention on my part. Even started fiddling with emulators - Legend of Zelda BotW on yuzu worked right out of the box
I bought a Steam Deck and got Win 11 up and running on an external SSD just to piss off the raven. :)
The fact is that certain things require Windows, and yeah, you might be able to jump through some hoops to get them to kinda/sorta run under Linux, but if you have a hard time with Windows, you'll never be able to do that in Linux.
I also gave it a shot, but 2 days later went back. On handhelds, SteamOS is objectively better OS. Overlays, performance monitoring, power management etc.
But I keep seeing people who want SteamOS on desktops. Why? I seriously don't see any advantages to that over any other Linux distro with KDE+Steam. And no, Sleep isn't an argument because that is tied to the Deck hardware and probably wouldn't work properly on a regular x86 desktop
Right? I always find it weird people want SteamOS, from my experience, all distros are "gaming distros", just install your drivers if not already installed, then install the game through something like Lutris, Heroic, or Steam.
I play on Debian 12 (used to be 11) exclusively through Lutris/Native, and it works flawlessly.
I really need to update my chromebook to linux one of these days.
You know ChromeOS is Linux, right? It's super easy to put a different distro on. You're totally up for it, a few hours max and you're good to go.
Ive tried to update it several times in the past using the linux installer that comes built in, yet each time it has failed. I need to open it up and then find some files for it.
Really? I have a somewhat (six years) old Acer chromebook, and I had to flash a custom bios on it to install Linux. It wasn't terribly hard, and the guides on the internet were really good. It still took a couple of hours, but it wasn't as easy as installing Linux on a Windows machine... That may have changed since then (two years ago) but it was a learning experience and I personally enjoyed tinkering and getting it all installed. I now have a Chromebook running EndeavourOS.
Don't they lock down the bootloader on some Chromebooks?
Felt called out by someone
Perfect advice!
Steam os? Isn't it nix?
It is. The current version found on the Steam Deck is based on Arch Linux.
I'm not like this!!!
I am though
And strong!
Mass acceptance on the desktop will never happen for Linux and the Linux community itself is mostly the problem. For the same reason why open source software, for the most part, is just so god awful (with a few fantastic examples). It is software written by developers, for developers with little consideration for users. It tends to be clunky and counterintuitive.
A tale as old as time.
I remember back in the early 2000s when I first got into IT. My manager at Burger King was one of those Linux guys and he tried to get me to install Gentoo. And his status message in MSN Messenger (probably used Pidgin too) was “In a world without windows, who needs Gates?”
I think this has mostly died down with PCs becoming less common than phones.
Im gladly to help!!
Pop os wolnt let me use my gpu so there's that
Is Mint suitable for Surface Book 3? I started digging and it seemed Arch was mostly working but I don't think I'm ready for that...
how do these two birds interact in the first place?
Also mention that you use Arch
MX Linux ftw!
I have some trouble with WSL...
I have some trouble with Hyper-V Networking...
I have some trouble with Ubuntu in Hyper-V running Druid with docker-compose...
Clearly software isn't the problem, it's me.
Those all involve Microsoft products for running Linux within Windows. Please think before you type...
Lol that's my point, people try to use all of these tools to run Linux on windows, when they should just run Linux 😅
It's weird to see so many people in the comments talking about how they switch to Linux and supposedly have so many issues.
Did they do it 10 years ago or something? Just install something like Debian 12 (ideally with KDE if you're primarily a Windows user), and everything works. Recommended to install Flatpak as well, which can be done super easily depending on your distro, but in KDE it's just inside the "app store" (Discover).
Flatpak looks easy alright, is it still around?
Is Debian so much better than Ubuntu or Mint? I tried both of those recently and had no end of troubles. Bluetooth was terrible, the Network Manager didn't appear to support MFA or split tunnelling, etc.
Couldn't really tell you as I haven't used either, I just use Debian on my home PC with a simple set up and it all just works. I don't use things like split tunnelling or anything though.
The simplicity and stability of Debian is great, while it has "old software", you can get the latest through Flatpak.
It's weird to see so many people in the comments talking about how they switch to Linux and supposedly have so many issues.
Probably the type of people that have difficulty reading and following directions, or never learned how to work through problems.
...I mean.... if you -STILL- want to use Windows (and only) Windows at current date, Year of Gaben 2023? Then you either need a reality check or to stop being -THAT- lazy.
well, i'd love to switch but not everything i want to play / use is on linux. and honestly- i can't be bothered to use 2 different OS. will switch once everything i use is available tho.
2022 and 2023 I made multiple decent attempts to go Linux and I've finally ragequit back to Windows where things finally just work. Currently using WSL for my Linux needs.
So many frustrating hours.
- Unresolvable sound issues
- Multi monitor issues
- Size scaling issues
- Couldn't get my games working even for Gold rated proton games
- Don't think I ever got nvidia drivers working correctly
- Really struggled on some distros to find the correct packages for some things because they were named differently?
- Couldn't find how to set a desktop background that filled my entire screen in Gnome. It kept repeating to fill the screen instead of just "zooming"
- Got 100% CPU usage in KDE just doing nothing
- Didn't even want to start figuring how to run my Windows-only apps because by that time I was a bundle of stress and just wanted to use my pc without fighting it every step
Conclusion for me: Windows is best DE, so use Windows+WSL
I'm a bit sad about it because I'm getting more and more frustrated with Windows 11 direction. It seems each update brings a new configuration or "feature" that makes things more difficult for me.
I do feel I am being pushed out of Windows.
For about the last 10 years I try going Linux roughly every 3 years. So I'll give it another shot in a couple of years.
I fully understand for some people it just works. But it is not yet my personal Year Of Linux Desktop
I'm sorry to hear that you've had a poor experience with trying to migrate to Linux. It is a big switch in terms of how the OS is structured and how things work. Unfortunately the out of box experience of Linux on personal laptops and desktops can be quite poor for commonly recommended distros like Ubuntu especially if you want to game.
This might be contentious with some people but if you or anyone is feeling adventurous and in the mood to try to understand how Linux works, I would recommend Arch. It gives you the reins to setup and configure your system how you wish. I would however try it in a VM first before going dual boot or as your sole driver.
I've tried many Linux distros over the years (Mint, Ubuntu, Centos, etc) but Arch has been the most stable and enjoyable to use. I have one install from 2013 that's still going strong. Nvidia drivers or Steam can be installed without setting up PPAs or downloading binaries as one might need to do on other Linux distros. Most third party apps I would want are available through the Arch User Repository (AUR). The Arch wiki is amazingly useful for any Linux user.
Most games I play work through Steam or Lutris with the latest Proton from https://github.com/GloriousEggroll/proton-ge-custom
https://itsfoss.com/content/images/2023/06/June-2023.png
Real competitors compete, let me know when Linux breaks 3% market share.
