Victoria Police is warning action will be taken against anyone who uses the Nazi salute in public, now that the gesture has become illegal.
I hate this law. Not because I think people should be saluting like Nazis, but because it was actually needed. We should be better than that. Have we learned nothing from 80-90 years ago?
My theory: there is basically no-one left who remembers WW2 first-hand, and a lot of people only know that the atrocities were commited by "evil monsters". And we're not evil monsters, right? We're sophisticated modern humans, not evil monsters, right? We are, therefore, incapable of atrocity or even mistake and it cannot happen here, right?
It’s super frustrating for people like me who are nerds for history and are extremely aware of exactly how fascism progressed last time it got popular.
The systematic dismantling of humanities education hasn't helped this either. That's why we needs arts / humanities just as much as science. The nazis had science but they didn't have any humanity.
Not that I support their ideology at all, but the Nazis gave the world some really cool shit. Jets, rockets and the ballistic missile, the modern highway system/overpasses, and advancement in nuclear fission. Just goes to show how much war seems to advance our technology tree.
No it does not work like that. People have to be constantly reminded about stuff like this, only then can you even have the slighest hope that it won't happen again.
It's also dumb because it can easily be abused by the police. They could easily say you were doing it when hailing a cab or waving to your friend. There is a very fine line between Heil Hitler and Hail Cab, about 45° to be exact.
As stupid as it sounds, I can only imagine some poor guy with swastika tattoos trying to explain how he was only waiving a cab driver down when he gets spear tackled by some crazy Islamic state supporter
This happened after a bunch of nazis inserting themselves into everything imaginable (and yes, they did co-opt a lot of the dissatisfaction over lockdowns) pissing more and more people off until we literally ended with a situation where they got a protective cop ring around them and started flinging seig heils and there was no legal way to get them on the harm they were doing.
Fuck that noise.
Also fuckin' dan couldn't give a shit what nutballs chant in the street when the voters kept putting him back in the seat. Don't be such a five year old
I heard it was because everyone was throwing Nazi salutes in public spaces in support of the current liberal candidate but maybe whoever said that was making it the fuck up
edit for raptor squad this is entirely sarcastic but Christ you're dense mate
Also a quick reminder that swastikas drawn in permanent marker can be wiped off some surfaces with a solvent, such as by using alcohol based hand sanitizer on a tissue. Both come in travel sizes.
As for ones that cannot be cleaned off, well there’s absolutely nothing you can do about that. It cannot be helped. You wouldn’t want to get caught undoing a hate symbol by drawing over it in a hilarious but completely illegal way.
Such vandalism is reserved for your own belongings because graffiti of public property is a crime. ☝️
I feel like this is a pointless and totally useless crime for anyone to tackle. Like if someone drew a dick on my face with permanent marker, or spraypainted my house, I would be more concerned about why they didn't have a job rather than the actual act of spray painting to begin with. My personal take at least is that there's worse crimes out there
Deputy Commissioner Neil Paterson said the update to the Summary Offences Act received royal assent on Friday, meaning that as of Saturday, it had come into effect.
A small group of about 25 members of the National Socialist Network performed Nazi salutes and displayed an anti-Semitic sign.
"If any member of public, including the National Socialist Network attend any of those rallies and undertake a Nazi salute then police will be pursuing those individuals to ensure that we enforce the new law … hold them to account, charge them and bring them before a court of law," Deputy Commissioner Paterson said.
There have been other instances of neo-Nazis demonstrating in the centre of Melbourne this year, which prompted the Victorian government to move towards outlawing the display of hate symbols.
"In terms of our Jewish community here in Victoria, we know that they have concerns at the present time due to the conflict in the Middle East," Deputy Commissioner Paterson said.
"I've personally met with a number of senior Jewish community members to give them assurance about the police activities in the state of Victoria."
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So fucking sick of this 'what if you this" "but whatif you that" 'won't someone pleeeeaaase think of the innocents!!' like a nazi salute is easily mistaken for something else.
You mistake is assuming the law is being applied in good faith.
Of course hailing a tram is obviously different than a Nazi salute to anyone.
But the objective is not to detect Nazis , it's to find an excuse to harass and intimidate people.
This is just another tool in their belt.
With a new law, you should always think of how it's going to be like if applied by the most bigoted racist police officer in existence. And what mechanisms you have in place to stop that officer.
I also agree that society should tolerate freedom of speech. But when that freedom of speech is being used to weaponize and remove others’ freedom of speech, we should not tolerate that.
If you're using the Nazi salute to hail a tram, you're definitely doing it wrong.
First of all, the tram will stop if you're just standing at a stop, so it's unnecessary, and if you insist on hailing, you could do it without stretching your arm all the way.
I'm conflicted on this. On one hand Nazis were fucking shitty people, and Neo-Nazis are shitheads too. On the other hand, freedom of speech/expression is super important. Even for these shitbirds.
Like, I don't know for sure, doesn't Australia have freedom of speech and stuff? If the people (even non-Nazis) don't say anything about this, then is it possible the government will start banning other shit? Like flipping the bird.
We don't have a properly defined freedom of speech right, although our high court has ruled that we have an implied freedom of "political communication"
Which truly doesn't matter as we are a part of the various treaties and international frameworks mentioned on that site. Treaty law is just as valid as domestic law and as long as that is held we have a right to freedom of speech with the minor caveats of not allowing racist scum to speak freely.
Yeah sure. Find something you can convince everyone is evil enough to justify your exerting control over communications. Next will be travel and business restrictions. Who's the fuckin Nazi now?
That's the thing with slippery slopes - when to stop.
...except there's a simple answer - when it gets bad.
Personally, I think fucking with Nazis is a good thing, and I'd need you to explain how banning the Nazi salute will necessarily lead to travel and business restrictions, you conspiracist crank.
You worried that Nazis doing their little taboo gang signs are gonna account to some kind of real problem? Is there any problem they could conceivably cause that's worse than a government authorizing force in response to a communication? Y'all got too much bloodthirst for building a society that doesn't devolve into fascism.
As much as I hate what the Nazis did, and this resurgence of neo Nazism, I worry that raising one's hand for any purpose could be mistaken for a salute.
I'm certain police will use their discretion and infer intent before deciding whether or not a raised hand could be considered a Nazi salute. It'd be way too easy to argue down in court.