Victim still got charged with a felony after spending 5 months incarcerated waiting for trial, and has to wait another month in jail to find out if the judge will overturn his final charge.
Self-described "Goon" still walking around on the streets getting paid for harassing and assaulting strangers. As a bonus, nearly doubled subscribers.
This case is exactly why DA's level stack multiple felonies in these cases.
Jury: Well this is clearly self-defense, but he also probably pushed it too far so we don't think he is innocent. Better just give him one felony.
For those that don't know, the American courts have interpreted the constitutional "right to bear arms" as void for felons. This guy who was just acknowledged to have used his firearm in self-defense, is no longer allowed to own a firearm for his own protection.
This guy who was just acknowledged to have used his firearm in self-defense, is no longer allowed to own a firearm for his own protection.
Good. Because that wasn't self-defense, and he clearly doesn't know what situations are appropriate for lethal force. Neither his life nor property were in any danger.
You know that his life wasn't in danger because you know it was a prank. The defender here did not have the benefit of that knowledge.
When someone nearly a foot taller with 50 more pounds of muscle gets in your face and starts accusing you of thinking about their private parts, then you get to decide if self-defense is necessary. The defender tried to get away from the aggressor multiple times and told him to stop multiple times, but the aggressor obviously kept engaging.
Do you think he should have waited until the giant started punching or kicking him before he decided to draw his weapon? Should he have tried to punch the giant instead of using the weapon he has? Do you think you could outrun someone taller and in better shape than you are?
If the defender had multiple self-defense options he might have chosen another, but all of this is arm-chair quarterbacking. We weren't there and the person that was chose the only real defense option they had.
This situation is entirely the Goon's fault. He should be the one facing charges. While it might be reasonable to recommend a self-defense course for the victim, my understanding is that he already followed good self-defense principles.
Edit: Also, since no one else is saying it, I will. If the victim happened to have been gay, the aggressor probably would have been charged with a hate crime. The goon was clearly accusing him of it.
I'd rather get shot than work at McDonald's. Have you worked a low wage customer facing job? Literally anything is better. I'd rather have children kick me in the balls all day.
He's working up his immunity by getting shot with smaller calibers first, by the time he's making 10k/month, he'll have himself immune to high-caliber rifle rounds from people that are trying to kill him from a distance.
I feel like every person in this thread that cannot fathom how he feared for his life has never had personal experience dealing with someone with severe mental illness, in their family or in public or something. Direct experience, though, of interacting with a large, loud, mentally ill person.
If you think you can just assume a stranger you encounter who shoves a phone in your face is mentally healthy, you're missing some facts of life.
The youtuber is 6 foot 5. Someone that tall is going to be intimidating if they get in your face and will not fuck off when asked regardless of what your prior experiences are. This guy knows he scares people. Thats the point of his channel. I mean the dude calls himself the goon squad. He knows hes being an asshole. He gets into peoples' faces, scares the shit out of them and films the reaction.
You dont need to have dealt with mental illness to have that feeling.. you just have to had trauma in the past. I have been jumped 2 times in the past by gang members, and you bet your fucking ass I get absolutely anxious if some stranger gets up to my face... good times
Can you then not empathize with how this delivery driver was afraid for his life? Not necessarily taking his time and thinking through his options, but reasonably in an actual state of irrational fear?
These are the types of people who don't understand consent. They shove a camera six inches from your face, say nonsensical bullshit, keep following you when you back up, don't listen when you repeatedly say No and Stop, yet are all shocked Pikachu when someone finally has enough. Fuck these "pranksters". I hope his next injury is worse, because we all know this literal warning shot wasn't enough and he's going to continue.
I didn't watch Steve-o's own show but were there any Jackass skits where they accosted sometime who wasn't in their crew? Some of them happened in public but they were still members of the crew being stupid and filming the publics reaction from afar.
That would corroborate his lawyers saying that a conviction after a finding of a lack of malice is inconsistent.
Except the next paragraph says:
If any such act be done unlawfully, but not maliciously, the person so offending is guilty of a Class 6 felony;
But, if the shooting was in self-defense, was it unlawful? Maybe the guy was legally allowed to defend himself, but not legally allowed to shoot a gun inside a crowded food court. Like, the self-defense covers him for injuring another person, but it doesn't cover the danger he posed to other people when he did it?
I noted this as well. No info about the second conviction.
Another poster said there was an appeal, I can't find anything about it, by whom, or on what.
Also see no info about post verdict motions.
It sounded to me as though there may be inconsistent verdicts. I don't know this aspect of criminal procedure to say what happens in this case. I think it's a mistrial, and dude may be retried? Could be a directed verdict on the convicted charge.
B) all the news sites that popped up at the top of Google search are literally identical. Cool.
I was just skimming through them, so it took me about five articles to realize that they weren't just sharing quotes but were actually exact copies. I felt like I was crazy for a minute. I have never seen this kind of thing with news articles, but makes me wonder how common it is.
Also, I was using DDG not Google so it is not just their problem.
They're both pieces of shit. You shouldn't shoot someone without a reasonable fear of your life (or arguably property) being in danger. This situation wasn't there yet. The fuckface was just being intentionally annoying.
The Youtuber should be in jail for harassment or assault. The shooter should be taking a nice plea deal for a low amount of prison time.
You can't just shoot someone in the middle of the mall because they're annoying.
After watching the video of the incident, I don't blame the driver for shooting him at all.
The "prankster" was acting really creepy and was being right up in the guys face after being asked to stop. Even after trying to walk away, the "prankster" still came right up to him, holding his phone right up to his face.
Fuck that guy. He deserved to get shot. He said he's gonna keep making those videos, and I hope he gets shot again, but hopefully the next time is the last time.
This is such a bad ruling. Not only does that jackass get off with no punishment he is even being rewarded for his crimes! Setting the precedence for other pranksters to assault people more and more, and when they fuck around and find out, all they'll be finding is more viewers and more money.
Should dude had shot him? Thats not my place to say, but if he did indeed feel threatened, which the jury agreed, then he should not be punished for reacting to being assaulted like this.
Its like some people online want the victim to get in trouble for simply owning and carrying a gun, its ridiculous! The victim was being assualted full stop! Not his fault for using what his legally own gun is meant for.
Uh... the guy who shot the YouTuber isn't being punished; they found him not guilty. The YouTuber isn't being punished because this case wasn't about his actions, it was about the dude who shot him. He's not being rewarded, though.
The only weird part about the ruling is the jury wants to convict on the "gun charges" (that's what the article referenced, doesn't say what that means) but acquitted him on the shooting.
The victim is being punished! He is recieving a felony for protecting himself just because it took place in a building. And that dumb youtuber was rewarded by having his followers almost double after the fact, which equates to more money, while the victim is sitting in jail.
The only weird part about the ruling is the jury wants to convict on the “gun charges” (that’s what the article referenced, doesn’t say what that means) but acquitted him on the shooting.
The original three charges (I don't know if any were modified later) were "aggravated malicious wounding, use of a firearm in the commission of a felony, and discharging a firearm within a building". In Virginia, use of a firearm in the commission of a felony acts as a multiplier charge for malicious wounding. My guess is that he was acquitted of malicious wounding and use of a firearm in commission of a felony, and convicted of discharging a firearm inside a building.
From the description of the incident, it definitely sounded like he feared for his life. A 6 foot something guy keeps advancing on him, asking why he's thinking of the guy's penis. He tells the guy to leave him alone multiple times, but the guy keeps advancing. He retreats multiple times, but the guy keeps at it. He even tries knocking the phone out of the guy's hand, but the guy keeps at it.
It definitely sounds like the guy was afraid of where this was going and tried all of the non-lethal options (retreat, tell the person to stop) before resorting to pulling out his gun. The YouTube "pranker" has nobody to blame but himself. He should have stopped when asked instead of repeatedly pressing the defendant for a YouTube "prank" video.
(I use "prank" in quotes because I don't consider this type of thing a real prank. It's just a guy acting like an idiot and calling it "a prank." A real prank should leave all involved laughing when it's revealed, not leave one person fearing for their life.)
Well like the article said, he fucked up by shooting immediately after drawing the weapon, instead of giving Cook (the YouTuber) a chance to see the gun and finally back off. I agree with their decision to keep him in jail because of that one simple fact. The guy should have warned him that he was going to shoot if Cook didn't back down.
I am not a lawyer. So everything I say could be wrong and every state is different but generally I think there's a five point test for claims of self defense: Avoidance, Innocence, Imminence, Proportionality, and Reasonableness.
Avoidance is moot because I think this is Virginia and I think they have a no-retreat provision. Innocence is just that you didn't willingly engage in a fight that got out of control. So that applies. Imminence applies because it happened in the moment. I just don't see how Proportionality applies here. I just don't see how holding a cell phone is proportional to a shooting. Emotionally I get it that the YouTuber is a major jerkwad and may have deserved a comeuppance. But I don't think the jury followed the law.
I'm not a lawyer. Everything I said there could be wrong
I kinda waver on reasonableness for cases like this but I generally think using a weapon against an unarmed aggressor is reasonable when there is a significant size disparity or a disability or something like that. In this case the "prankster" was significantly larger and had a group of friends with him so I don't think it's out of the question that the use of a gun for defense is reasonable in this situation.
If the defendant has been carrying a less lethal self defense measure, such as a taser, mace, or a baton, and had used that to defend himself, would you see that as more proportional?
I'm happy he didn't die over this, but I'm also kind of happy he got a little fucked up over it.
I tend to think about these situations with small people as the initial victim. How far should a smaller person or woman let something go before they can defend themselves? If the person is way, way bigger, do you just have to let yourself get beat?
the whole point of firearms is that it's deadly force. you can't fire one at a person without being ready to take their life because it's always a likely outcome.
I guess not according to Lemmy, lol. I don't care if the youtuber was. the size of Shaq, you can't just shoot someone for showing a phone in your face not even if he is following you.
I know everyone loves when YouTube pranksters get whats coming but shooting someone over a mild annoyance is never a good thing. This is why america seems fucking nuts to anyone that doesn't live there.
Somebody approaching you, even though you're trying to move away and telling them to stop, is not a "mild annoyance". It's dangerous because weapons are so freely available. It would be better if they weren't, but while they are, you shouldn't do something like this.
It's not enough to shoot someone in any civilised country.
It's important to realize that the confrontation lasted 30 seconds. That's the amount of time he waited before almost killing someone.
He wasn't being chased in a dark alley or stalked for half a hour, someone played loud noises in his face and it took a total of 30 seconds for him to decide to shoot someone over it. Literally insane.
It's dangerous, it's not an imminent danger to life and limb.
If you're about to catch a beating, you can't just shoot.
The police, prosecution, judge, and half the jury, and me, think this conduct exceeded any right of self defense the dude had.
No question he could.lawfully have maced him or punched him and there'd have been no charge. But to try and kill the guy?
The jury apparently fucked it up by rendering an inconsistent verdict on the sole conviction. It's dangerous when the jury says it's deadlocked. It generally means someone in the room isn't being reasonable, or is not following the judge's instructions. And it resulted with inconsistent verdicts.
Yes. Your country has a shit reputation because of the gun cult, the shootings, the constant war mongering, the blatant racism and homophobia, and the Christian lobby that fuels all of the above.
Being the world's economic leader doesn't mean your internal policies can't be shit, grow up.
When Trump was visiting foreign countries, they literally flew giant ballons mocking him lmao.
Ask any female friends or relatives of yours how they would feel if a 6'5” man continued to approach them and ask what they thought of his penis. See if they think it's a mild annoyance.
My wife is 5'2". She's been physically pushed around by a man in the past. I'm 5'11" and if I get upset at her, she will cower. If I advanced on her threateningly, she would panic. If a stranger who was half a foot larger than me did, she would absolutely fear for her safety.