It is unfortunate that this anti-work rhetoric often comes off as outrageous, when in reality it isn't. I don't know if the people doing it are intentionally trying to be controversial, or if they just are not good at communicating.
When we complain about work, this doesn't mean that we are asking for a world where we lounge all day at home, and expect that food, shelter and entertainment are magically delivered to us without any regard to how it happens. No, anti-work is not about a blind sense of entitlement. But that is how a lot of these posts come off as, even if their authors don't intend it.
Anti-work is a recognition that the working class works way too damn much; so much more than we need to to have a functioning society with everyone living happily and having their needs met. There's so much inefficiency in capitalism, with aims to drive more capital to the wealthy, and working around other stupidities of capitalism (check out the book "Bullshit jobs" for examples). The ruling class holds hostage the world's resources, and requires you to give them a large portion of your life to get even the minimum needed to sustain your living. Now that is outrageous.
I think a lot of people have trouble understanding the difference between "I don't want to contribute anything to society" and "I don't want to spend half my waking life laboring for peanuts so that my boss can get rich".
Obviously, we should contribute according to our means, but we need to be compensated for those contributions accordingly.
...but we need to be compensated for those contributions accordingly.
This is the part they object to, thanks to the proliferation of Econ 101 thinking. Market wages are, after all, competitive by definition. For someone that hasn't gone beyond basic economics, what you're paid for the work you do is fair compensation.
The anti-work rhetoric is, first of all, incredibly misleading for people who take things at face value. But more important, the underlying theory for why market wages aren't fair is different for each person you talk to. There is no coherent, rhetorically forceful reasoning for why people should be paid more. And separate messages that arrive at the same conclusion aren't really effective at scale.
Like your thesis that capitslism is inefficient. I agree! It is efficient though solving a problem, it's just the wrong one (money instead of happiness as the x).
Never thought about it that way
I was born in a comunist society and can wholeheartedly tell you (I presume you are from US or a western country): you don't even know or can imagine what inefficient is :)
A good start might be not calling the movement Anti-work, as that seems to be an all or nothing type of negative name, to those who feel everyone should put in their fair amount of work to earn the rewards from society.
Perhaps smart-work or fair-work or right-work would have been a better name for the movement, less of a blockage / hurtle for others to get over.
I certainly agree. I never liked the term anti-work at all. I prefer to just cut to the chase and explain what I'm about. Or call myself a socialist. That may have its own baggage to unpack as well, but at least its not a core semantic flaw in the term.
Anti-work is extremely unfortunate. We really named a movement after a strawman criticism of leftists by boomers.
Good lord this community is cringe most of the time.
I don't get all the people who are here that clearly aren't anti-work.
like why are they here? Isn't this a community for anti work and not against it?
Yup, they want to live in fantasy land where they benefit from other people's work, but do none themselves. They're still children, but most of them will eventually grow up.
The rest will become communists, which is something I've been seeing a lot of on Lemmy.
Yeah the 40+ hours of manual labor I do producing 3 $25,000 machines in a week while being paid $1000 is totally not work at all.
Critiquing a system of exploitation is only possible if one is lazy and worthless, not something that typically and historically comes from those most oppressed under a given system.
Refusal to blindly submit to coercive hierarchies is a sign of immaturity, while blind obedience to that system makes you a real man. Only people who blindly accept their and the exploitation of their friends and family are adults.
You obviously don't have the slightest idea what communism is
Or you could try reading what was actually said properly, rather than making up something different that wasn't said by anyone except you.
There’s nothing wrong with wanting to live without working. I already do this as a landlord and a business owner/investor. Maybe when you grow up you will be successful like me and understand the virtues of not grinding away all day to make somebody else rich, instead, let other people make you rich.
So they will stay children forever because that is what a communist is someone who is emotionally stunted
So spot on, dude.
"Hello, I would like to benefit from society without contributing to it"
Yes, owners do this.
So like a CEO?
Nah, like a land lord. The CEO of my company is a very productive person.
Work vs labor
It is very unfortunate that posts like the OP portray the anti work movement in that way, but anti work does not mean that. I think this other commenter summarized it better: https://lemm.ee/comment/3155176
Yes, that’s why I’m here
When I say I'm tired of working for a living I don't mean that I don't want to work, I meant that I don't want to work for other people doing something I don't care about so someone I don't care about can better achieve something I don't care about just so they pay me money for it. I'm happy to work when that goes directly goes toward my own well-being and that of my family and local community. I just get so tired of doing work that I have no personal investment in beyond "it makes me money so I can then give that money to other people."
So I play Rimworld and dream of what it would be like to have a role in a small community where everyone does their part for the direct benefit of the community and it isn't all just about money.
Pretty sure in the old days, when there were fewer people, you could just fuck off into the forest and build yourself a cottage. If your feudal lord found out you’d be in trouble, but they didn’t have satellites or whatnot to track you down.
We have this weird unwritten assumption that the cost of technological advancement (esp medical) was our own domestication. That we sacrificed freedom and privacy for health and safety. I wonder if that’s really the case, or if it’s some bullshit post hoc justification
You'd still have to work for your living in said scenario.
Nobody is gonna bring you chicken tendies three times a day in your hidden cottage.
Uncontacted hunter gathered tribes work, it's right there in the description. Not 40 hours a week, sure, but you can live a much simpler lifestyle in the wilderness on a similar work ethic.
Labor is an intrinsic requirement of human life.
What was invented was unemployment and underemployment, both of which are unnecessary.
Wrong, people do bring me whatever sort of food I ask for, and I don’t have to work for it. That’s because I’m a successful landlord and business owner, so maybe you should stop complaining about having to work and just become successful like me and then you will realize the truth, nobody has to work if they don’t want to. Just be a success and you can enjoy a life of leisure.
You could try. But there's 2 problems with that. Firstly surviving on your own is extremely difficult. Subsistence farming is hell and without a community often ends in death after a single drought or bad crop.
And secondly the medieval era didn't have that much empty, unclaimed land that could support either farming or hunting. There were farming communities everywhere there was open space. And old forests in Europe are pretty much entirely man controlled by this point. Poaching was a serious crime because of population control and logging was also controlled.
What I'm saying is, no man is an island and very few could survive as one. There's a reason we developed society.
It’s not just bullshit.
Soon after we invented agriculture we began to lose survival skills, and it got progressively worse until we reached the point of grocery stores.
This was our choice. We stopped roaming to stop and grow, harvest, and store grain to be sure we had food stocks in reserve for low yield months. This gave us time to create and learn which led to civilisation.
Before agriculture, we were no more than bands of maybe 50, probably territorially killing each other on discovery much like Chimps do.
It made sense when working meant providing for families, and even in the industrial revolution where it meant making mass goods for large amounts of people to enjoy.
But what happens when we get the ability to produce more than we need with only a relatively small amount of humans to do it? If we have the resources where we can easily give everyone on the planet a cell phone, why not do it?
We are already there with some goods: for example, we currently produce enough food to feed 1.5x the world’s population. We may very well reach a point in the next 20-30 years where we can produce everything market wants with 50% or perhaps even 25% of adult humans actually working. Our solution so far is creating artificial scarcity, but that’s only going to patch the system for so long.
Already we’re eschewing traditional factory jobs for service industry jobs like meal delivery. But we’re not far off from autonomous delivery vehicles automating that away, too. With the rise of AI, we can expect a lot more jobs to be augmented or superseded by automation over time.
Capitalism rests on the premises that we can always produce more and that people’s value is tied to their labor. But in a post-scarcity, heavily automated world, these premises break down, and suddenly this system doesn’t really work anymore.
Short of a communist revolution, I think we are going to need to start trialing measures that divorce benefits from labor. Most of the world already has healthcare coverage separated from labor (USA is the glaring exception,) and the next step would likely be universal basic income.
Not sure which came first though - capitalism or human nature. Capitalism creates artificial scarcity but it also capitalizes on human nature, namely those who want to be 'better' than others.
In some places, people keep telling their kids 'go to college so you'll have a good life and be educated, not like those laborers'. As a consequence, today there might be less skilled electricians, plumbers and the like. And those jobs pay better, and are arguably less boring than, say, working in a bank with a college diploma. Point being, just like a college diploma is a sign of status, so is the iphone and some random brand-name knick-knack or eating caviar.
For society to advance to the stage you're proposing, we first have to get over our inflated egos and our need to be better than the rest, in whatever random field we manage to, be it food, clothes, tech, cars or diplomas. I'd want a world in which the garbage man has it as good as the university professor. Not sure the university professor would, though? But they both provide valuable services to society at large.
Honestly, there aren’t that many changes we’d need to get there. For example, instead of working one person 60 hours we can work two people 30 hours. If we divorce benefits from full time status, companies won’t have to pay all that much to make the system work.
With universal income, people could opt to work part of the year, or work for a few years and take time off, or however else they want to do it. There would still be an incentive to work, just not to work to death.
https://youtu.be/zZSLFlAbycE?si=-vC3tldC5jFP-IP0
"Human nature" is just a meaningless buzzword.
I don't think I'm entitled to someone else's labor, no. I would like fair compensation for mine is all.
How I see this problem is that we aren't given to tools to help us decide how we want to live our lives. Work sucks and is a waste of time. Contributing to society is valuable and something I want to do.
During the 2020 epidemic and lockdown bunches of people were furloughed and we all got to acquaint ourselves with extended cabin fever. Many of us picked up new hobbies and some of those could ne monetized and were better than the (often toxic, underpaid) dayjobs.
It was a conspicuous phenomenon now called the great resignation. Our capitalst masters compain how no one wants to work, but it's evident to the rest of us that it's the toxic underpaid conditions we don't like, and we'd be glad to work if conditions were better.
I suspect laziness isn't a real character flaw or deadly sin so much as the desire to not suffer as we work. (There is avolition, a symptom of mental illnes such as major depression, and this is what drives people to couch-potaro for weeks or months at a time.)
I think that modern work is something done to us, as a form of violence. We're told to go here, do this, and in return we get just enough to get by. Humans are definitely not lazy, but we do have a problem with slavery.
I also want to do that. I do not want five of my days eaten per week in service of that though. I want to have a life.
I actually think we should work towards a 20-hour work week or less. Our kids and civic duties suffer for our lack of time and energy, making for intergenerational mental illness and an general civic incompetence (facilitated by the gutting of public education programs)
That's the goal. But I can't reject the fact that I need to work. It's gotta happen. And I also don't want to be depressed all the time. My comment is kind of about learning how to keep doing what I need to do without being sad and or angry about it all the time.
I've always been envious of those people who grew up knowing what they wanted to do with their lives and then they did it. It seems like what we want is incongruent with what is available. It's like they were born into something that was designed for them, but I think at least part of it is parenting and education. Doesn't help that our world is kind of fucked up though. Hard to close my eyes to that and be excited about choosing a career. That and* we're kind of serfs.
I mean there's a lot of wilderness and open space in the US. No one is stopping you from going out there and starting from scratch. Go ahead and do it
Yeah, if that’s an option then I respect people who do that, but if you want the comforts of modern society then you need to contribute.
Imo anti work is about pushing back on the ridiculous expectations of companies, and ensuring that employees receive some of the benefits of automation to ease the load on them.
This tweet strikes me as the “but I want everything for freeee!!!” person who makes anti work look bad. Like that idiot Reddit mod who went on Fox News or whatever news station it was.
Yeah I don’t mind working honestly, but I’d love to be able to live as well. Everything revolves around work, and there’s this constant race for improvement and efficiency. There won’t ever be a enough, and that makes me sick.
At some point I’d like to live too. If we’ve gotten so fucking efficient why can’t we cut down the amount of hours of work needed?
No instead we build machines that can perform creative endeavours so all the writers, artists, and the like are freed up to do menial labour instead.
I don’t argue the benefits of society but I still hate it. It’s like an abusive relationship, codependent and toxic. Ugh.
The original anti work community on Reddit was more about the abolition of work, before being co-opted by work reformists. It wasn't about just "pushing back", but about abolishing the modern concept of wage labor under capitalism.
Money doesn't need to exist, so your complaint about them just wanting things for free is ludicrous and strikes me as capitalist apologia.
I recommend reading The Abolition of Work to better understand the concept. At the very least, it would allow you to form actually compelling arguments against the idea so that you don't have to continue showing your ignorance.
This is really reductive and dumb, honestly.
No one us saying they want to be a hermit. People want to be part of a society that wasn't thrust upon us 500 years ago by global colonists at gunpoint.
Actually, the person in the tweet is saying they don’t want to work. If you go based off that, then they don’t want to be a part of any society, they just want everything for free.
If you want to be part of society, then you work and contribute. Otherwise, you’re just a leech. Whether you’re a billionaire or a poor one.
There's the tiny problem of me not being American though.
Yeah. Dunno about elsewhere but while you can totally set up camp and do whatever, the local government here in Sweden will come with machinery and tear it down if you don’t have sufficient permits or own the land.
Hell even if you own the land there may be codes preventing you from setting up shelter without the right permits.
No there isn't; it's all claimed by various people or national parks or something.
The idea that one can go out to the woods and build a new society unhindered is pure fantasy.
That would be Freedom ©®™
You absolutely could try. It would be fine until the already established hierarchies feel you're becoming a threat to their monopoly of power. Then they will come up with some reason to go out and shoot you or lock you up.
But I do think most of the people who say shit like they want to live in a wilderness commune would last two weeks before giving up and going back to running water, paved roads and grocery stores.
Yes they are, moron.
Taxes are hardly optional, and they WILL punish you for seeking independence.
Yeah no, that's actually literally illegal. You might be able to get away with stealth camping, but you can't just set up a homestead in a fucking forest or something. That shit would be knocked down, you'd be fined, and then you'd be jailed when you fail to pay the fine.
Actually, that one's on me guys, sorry. I just said we were all okay with it and honestly thought you'd all be fine with it...? Anyway, my bad.
For the literal sense, yes, I do remember consenting work for livelihood. Now, that work actually is being made into servitude, I don't remember. Livable work is really scarce, servitude and selling-out isn't.
I mean I guess you can go all Fountainhead and just live in the woods. Of course, you'll probably die if you don't do any work, but you definitely have a choice.
No, you actually can't do that. You'll go to jail when they catch you. Unless you have a shitload of money to buy property and cover the taxes on it for the rest of your life, you can't just leave society and live in the wilderness and expect not to be persecuted for it.
Honestly, I have more of an anarchist mindset. You shouldn't have to work, at least not a job. I'd rather build my own house and grow my own food. Everything I do directly benefits me and my family, not the rich. But I need money to buy the land....
In general, I agree with you and I understand what you mean. But building your own house and growing your own food - don't underestimate that. It is an amazing idea (and feeling) to work for your own direct benefit. But it is an awful lot of work. My uncle in law lives like that in Ukraine. They have a small house in the middle of a nowhere village. The only money they get is from biking (!) with some of their crops to the next town to sell them. That's a nice life but they have to work hard work from dawn to late evening every single day. No sick days. No weekends. No evenings off. No running water. No warm showers. No plumbing. You poop outside, in the cold, in a little wooden house with a bucket. They kind of chose to live like this (his other siblings moved away, he didn't want to give up their parents' land) but it is a hard life that tears on you. It breaks your bones, literally. As much as we all hate working for corporate here - for obvious reasons that demand all the support we got - be cautious of over-romantisizing this kind of self-sufficient lifestyle in the countryside.
I'd like to have my own house built, not just a wooden cabin. Run off of well water for water, and solar panels for electricity. I know that with the way that Modern Industrial Society is, I'd have to buy the land, couldn't just off grid it.
I actually want to become an android developer within this society. I'm aware that my career wouldn't define me at all, and I don't really care about titles. I get to work remotely which makes being in the country easier, and would make decent money to buy the land and equipment needed, and maybe get some degree of help.
Whether you like it or not, you live in a civil society. You are not alone, which is why we have rules on how we interact with eachother. I guart you, take away those rules and it'll get a lot worse for all of us. Calling yourself an anarchist at 20 is fun and edgy, doing it at 30 is just anti social and ego centric and at 40 it's just plain sad.
You have to work because we all do. You have to eat, use electricity, drink water. Why do you thinnei we pay taxes?
I just don't think anyone agreed to waste 40 hours of their life at this.
It's the way of the world. To eat, to live, work must be done. The most fair is way to divide up the work which must be done is by capacity. The fruits of those labors should be distributed first according to need, second according to whomever produced them.
This is not how things are done now, of course. Now, the neediest work hardest, and the fruits of that labor flow to those who have the least need.
The premise here is kinda blurred, but I think it does exist and goes something like that:
If you want to live and benefit from a society you must contribute to it
Is it wrong? Is it right? I think the anwser lies somewhere in between.
However one that is not established and I think it should be written down is one that my pops used to say:
Do not live to work, and if you love your job and enjoy it there more than anywhere in the world than you are already living, but even so do it with moderation else it will destroy you or turn something you love back to work.
The main thing that is overlooked is that people who don't work still contribute to society in ways that don't align with capitalism. Not all art needs to be bought and sold. A ton of care is provided for free instead of through a job. A community cleaning up a common space without exchanging money is still contributing to society.
I wouldn't even consider a lot of things that do align with capitalism to be contributing to society. Most advertising for example.
Totally agree, but there will always be outliers in any standard system being it socialism, capitalism and everything in between.
And to measure contributions of such outliers is a problem hard to solve, problem that hurts such outliers more than everyone else.
I stand on the two statements above, but as you pointed out there are still problems and solutions must be found.
Not all art needs to be bought and sold.
Damn straight. I'm an artist and I don't sell my art cause I don't like having a transactional relationship with someone.
There’s a difference between contributing to society by performing productive or helpful labor, and the sort institutionalized wage slavery we currently call “work.”
Most of us are subject to the tyranny of the clock, petty bosses, arbitrary rules about where we work or how we dress. This is what we never opted into and can opt out only after a lifetime of it or at great cost in terms of our ability to provide the necessities for ourselves.
Anarchist Bob Black explores this distinction in his essay, The Abolition of Work. I recommend reading it.
True, but honestly I think the only solution to such wage slavery is basic universal income, which is something truly hard to achieve in my ignorant eyes.
Once people feel/know that they can go on without a job, those who do have one, either because they want more or want to dive and contribute back to a certain area, would not subject to unfair conditions regulating everything in and related to work from
tyranny of the clock, petty bosses, arbitrary rules about where we work or how we dress ...
Thanks for the recommendation will give it a look.
Why the FUCK do you think you're entitled to get the free labor of bakeries working hard to make bread, farmers farming to create food, and people building technology to make your life easier?
No, you don't have to work. Go live in the forest and farm your own food. Maybe then when a lion attacks you you'll realize the value of modern civilization.
That's true, but the whole point of technology and modern civilization was to make us lazy and somehow people are working even more? Except for like 5 people.
Because if FOSS exist he imagines that also people would like to do real actual work just for fun!
Who’s going to take care of you?
Are we owed anything simply by being born?
Are we owed anything simply by being born?
A major problem with our society is that everything is framed conceptually as debt. A world where you are not born into debt is seen as unjust because your basic needs must be provided by others, and that can supposedly only be a financial transaction.
But from a purely logistical and motivational perspective, it's easy to imagine not threatening people with homelessness and death for not working. Everything is heavily automated. The large majority of people used to be subsistence farmers, now the proportion working in agriculture is less than 2% and we produce way more than is actually needed for human survival. You only need a little bit of labor provided beyond transactional compensation to make it happen. As for why anyone would choose to do so, it would be for all the same reasons people already work other than the threat of death; status, money, luxury, desire for purpose and fulfillment.
The only question is whether it is morally good and acceptable to allocate resources to someone without demanding payment. And it is; just stop thinking of debt as inherently right and required, and recognize that it's better not to force debt on someone just for being born and having basic needs.
This is just silliness.
There's more to life than food, most of which requires work. But even in just the food realm, that food needs to be shipped, processed (unless you want to start slaughtering your own animals) and delivered. All of which requires people.
Then, sure, some farming is automated but the materials that are automated? Yup, they have to be extracted, refined, assembled, and shipped. Not to mention y'know, designing those. And of course the people who have to fix them when they break.
All of which requires other industries, people to maintain roads, people to generate the power required to move the food along the roads, people to oversee the distribution etc.
Debt isn't required but that works both ways, why does the world owe you stuff for being born?
You are not owed a damn thing, the universe is a cold, uncaring bitch.
That said, we humans are nothing if not an ingenious bunch. We've come up with all sorts of ways to work more efficiently. The amount of work that once bought an hour of light now buys 51 years of it
Instead of choosing to work less and live a life of leisure, freedom and the pursuit of happiness, we kept working at the same or an increasing rate to make more money, or rather, those who own(ed) the capital and technology that makes it so did.
It's a bit of a pithy answer in an online comment but I genuinely believe humanity as a whole would be happier with less if it meant we got to live life on our own terms by default. Ever growing consumption way past the point of necessity comes with a host of problems (power and wealth imbalance, climate change, destruction of nature, etc) but by far the biggest one is the sheer waste of our few laps around the sun.
Every square inch of the earth is owned. I cannot fuck off into the woods, build a cabin, grow vegetables, hunt food, etc. I'm forced to be a part of society. Laws say I cannot provide for myself by natural means, there for society is required to provide for me within its system.
In actual civilization, yes, we are.
Basic accommodations are a human right according to the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Jesus had a few things to say about feeding the hungry, but Paul didn't fully agree.
Arguably, yes, you are owed a debt to AND from society for its forced participation.
We have built a system I cannot easily escape without first participating in it for decades
You think you should not work for a living?
For a living? Hell no, but I'd work for enjoyment if I didn't have to work to live.
What do you mean "for a living hell no"? You think ancient humans didn't have to work to survive? You think life is some gift to you and you deserve it? Survival is work. You just want free food and shelter while others are working to provide enough for themselves and for you? If surviving is too much work for you, don't do it. No one is forcing you.
The logical conclusion of
you should have to work (to make money, transactionally, anything not valued by capitalism and rich people doesn't even count, if you don't or can't fit this model it doesnt count) to make a living
is that
if you don't work (with the previous very large caveats for what counts as 'work'), you deserve to suffer and die
A lot of people don't think about the implications of that statement when they make it, but that is the logical end point. My experience is that most people - at least if they aren't stressed from the existing model - absolutely want to do things, often sharing them for free, without coercion.
But even if not, do you think people should be miserable and die if they can't or even won't "work for a living" (for a very particular narrow definition of work that can gain you money under the current system, when stuff created and donated is often more valuable than things payed for due to lack of perverse incentives - e.g. FOSS ^.^).
I'm not even starting on how the current model of labour provides perverse anti-automation incentives. Automation should be liberating, but the way our society values people based on labour (e.g. Protestant Work Ethic) actively forces people (and the non-capitalist class as a whole) to avoid tools or processes that should improve our collective lives :/ - imo this is one of the most fucked up things about capitalism.
Pure capitalism without rules is bad, sure.
Capitalism is also THE most successful system in our history. Without capitalism you'd be dead. Me too. Without capitalism the would wouldn't be able to sustain more than a few hundred million people. Do not underestimate all the processes we have in place that make it that you have your Hamburger.on your place to eat and survive. Hospitals would cease to function without it.
So let's call capitalism a necessary evil of you like. I know there are loads of communist types around here that live in the fantasy world where communism can do this and we'll, it can't. If you want, just even look at the history of Communism over the entire world. Every single communist government has failed and has caused only pain and suffering on the practical level.
I fully agree with you that you don't just want to ket people die so that is the solution?
I'd say a limited capitalist system where we place hard limits on what companies can do, hard limits on sizes and incomes and what people can own through -for example- taxes. The more you earn, the more you pay until taxes reach 100%
With that huge income you finance a socialist state where all the basics are free. Free healthcare , free education, etc. Food and housing is paid with Universal income so that everyone can at least afford a basic nice level of living. Anyone who wants extra can work extra in the capitalist system and earn extra if they want, but not need.
That just my 2 cents, but you'll still need capitalism. Take that away and you'll destroy the world and kill millions.
When current amount of automation and efficiency? Yes.
You do understand that Elon musk is full of shit, right? AI isn't going to take away all jobs within the next year.
We automate the crap out of stuff but without humans, the system is dead within days and that isn't going to change for decades to come, still.
You can put up your hand to beg but people aren't going to give you stuff just because you're too lazy or too naive about the world. Maybe 20 years from now there will be universal income because both automation and AI became good enough to really take away jobs. But until then, get your ass back to work, like everybody else
0Nobody wants to toil. The profits funnel directly to owner pockets who do next to nothing to operate the company.
I think the alternative is living out in the wild, fending for yourself. As much as I hate the inequality and mediocrity of modern life, it’s something of a step up from living like that. I love watching Primitive Technology, but I probably couldn’t handle that life. Imagine spending hours collecting fire wood, spending hours/days turning it into charcoal and building a clay oven just to fire up some shit you picked up from the river in hopes of getting a few globules of iron, to make like a small shank or a spear tip or something (after maybe weeks of effort). Oh, and you’re having to get your own food and maybe bathe yourself every so often. Super interesting to watch, but holy shit is that alot of work for so little (compared to what we’re used to seeing). Life is work.
It’s not, actually. The majority of human history is neither humans fending for themselves, nor submitting to wage slavery. Humans are collaborative, social beings. Even the nuclear family is an aberration on our otherwise multi generational and communal shared history.
Yeah, all human societies worked together on large communal projects and would make things and exchange it with others through barter. We still do those things fairly regularly.
Sure, it wouldn't work for a large an complex project like going to the moon, but that wasn't done by a capitalist company either.
https://youtu.be/hTREU-xVeY0?si=qRTOs6AuK0Z2jWGs
Here's a source for you. It will help your argument. As someone who has actually studied it, I agree with your hypothesis.
https://youtu.be/hTREU-xVeY0?si=qRTOs6AuK0Z2jWGs
The VAST majority of human history disagrees. Humans are collaborative not competitive naturally.
Good luck finding a sucker to subsidize you and your lazy ass.
Like an employee or a tenant?
Exactly like an employee or tenant. Exactly.
Delicious delicious boot leather huh?
No. I was born. I went through elementary school, middle school (junior high for my Midwestern peeps) and high school and then being like 'well, shit. I guess i have t work now."
Human nature, regardless of political systems, dictates that one and their family must provide trade-worthy value to receive trade-worthy value. There are plenty of exceptions to that thanks to charity (at any scale) and social policies that allow for some to provide little trade-worthy value and still receive essential benefits (for example, those with disabilities). But if there were an option to provide no trade-worthy value and receive completely satisfying goods, accommodations, and freedoms in return, then productive people would naturally feel foolish for spending time working any more than they like to. There is some point where there wouldn't be enough people to maintain the benefits for the non-workers. Although people would offer to work as good will, labor and supply shortages would be far more frequent or constant. So should we allow the option, but only a limited amount so that the threshold of value-produced to value-consumed is never met? It's unlikely that there would be good relations between the class of people in society that would be gifted with that option and those that aren't.
Does "human nature" "dictate" that nuclear families are a central organizational structure within society, or are there plenty of exceptions, in the sense of societies following systems and cultures very different from the one under which you live?
When did antiwork get filled with bootlickers?
As soon as you bacame self-conscious.
Is this a community of a bunch of children? What is this?
I'm 43, own a couple successful businesses, and agree with the post. I have no issues finding labor, because I pay them what they are worth, by figuring out what they would have been paid in 1955, and adjusting that to inflation and productivity. Turns out I still make money paying people the $35 an hour to start, that they are worth.
Grow the fuck up and drop your "got mine, fuck you" boomer attitude.
Lemme is mostly spoiled teenagers raised by single moms that never had to work.
are you here out of boredom?
