US suicides hit an all-time high last year
US suicides hit an all-time high last year
Experts caution that suicide is complicated, and that recent increases might be driven by higher rates of depression or limited availability of mental health services
About 49,500 people took their own lives last year in the U.S., the highest number ever, according to new government data posted Thursday.
I will probably get shit for this, since it's a predominantly left leaning space, but until society starts acknowledging men's issues it will keep getting worse.
https://afsp.org/suicide-statistics
In 2021, men died by suicide 3.90x more than women.
In 2021, firearms accounted for 54.64% of all suicide deaths.
This article is an excellent example of what I am talking about. It does not even mention the disparity of suicide rates between the sexes despite it obviously being a huge outlier. Instead, they talk about how guns are the problem, even though a gun is just a method.
Taking away the easy methods to commit suicide might reduce the rate, but it does nothing to address to core issues that make people want to kill themselves in the first place. Instead of 5000 dead people you will have 5000 people who wish they were dead. Mission accomplished.
but until society starts acknowledging men’s issues it will keep getting worse.
Good news. We've moved on from 'man hating' on the left. Intersectional Feminism actually espouses the fact that men are also harmed by the patriarchy and all the ridiculous demands that it puts on us, like not feeling feelings. You should look into it.
Expecting women to help men is like expecting men to give women the right to vote suddenly on their own initiative.
If you’re essentializing the left you’re stuck in meaningless ideology. “Kill All Men” is a good T-shirt and let’s not pretend women shouldn’t look out for women. Intersectional Feminism might have good ad copy but expecting an ideology to cure all problems is a broken (and male-oriented) way of viewing the world.
“If we just get the ideology right the hard work will disappear!” No, men are still going to have to help other men and “Intersectional Feminism” is still going to be either 1) a way to a more nuanced feminism (a good thing for those feminists to develop, don’t get me wrong), or 2) an Extremely Online project of no real consequence.
Free mental healthcare is a pretty leftist stance I think? Solving social issues and getting people the resources and care they need seems like a good way to solve the suicide issue and that's 100% what the left is all about.
Free mental healthcare is a great idea, but it will only partially solve the problem. Men tend to use mental healthcare way less than women. Where I live (where it's basically free) there are some efforts to get men into programs, like support groups specifically for men, but these don't change the situation much. There needs to be a cultural change as well, aside from societal improvements to better everybody's lives.
Is there evidence that mental healthcare lowers the chances of suicide?
I will probably get shit for this, since it's a predominantly left leaning space, but until society starts acknowledging men's issues it will keep getting worse.
???
What left leaning circles have you been in? I think we all know men have issues too?
In my left leaning circles it's pretty well understood that feminism is about helping women. And that's a good thing. Trying to make feminism an ideology which serves all genders is problematic because it implies an omniscient perspective counter to proper intersectionality. Men experience oppression but only men can represent their oppression in discourse.
Women can't and shouldn't feel like they can have an opinion on men's issues. "Stay in your lane" comes to mind.
I can't think of a single left leaning space that is not concerned or empathetic about the mental health of men. I can think of several right leaning spaces that dismiss men's mental health struggles with "stop being a snowflake and man up."
It also does not even mention the disparity of suicide stats between different ethnic groups.
US demographics use "race" instead of ethnicity but the stats still point to a massive disparity with American Indian or Alaska Natives having suicide rates in the 20s (compared to overall rates of around 14 -14.9 per 100,000). Black and Hispanic people also have higher suicide rates.
It's worth noting that also according to that article women attempt suicide 1.3x as often as men -- but men are more likely to use guns so they end up dying more. It seems to me guns are a core part of the issue
The issue isn't that people are committing suicide with firearms, or even that they're committing suicide. The issue is that people are miserable and hate their lives.
Technology has us more isolated from each other and people have less friends now than they did 20 years ago.
I think the majority of ppl want that stuff better for everyone, toxic masculinity hurts women and men. there's definitely some very vocal sexists on both sides though
The only reason a "left leaning" space would argue with you over that is when you start blaming women or feminism for mens issues.
As a man who is suicidal pretty much constantly, I know my issues are my own. I've failed, not society, but I also know that 5000 people who wish they were dead aren't dead yet and so there's still a chance things can change. I'd say gun control can be part of the solution, but I do also agree that we should be discussing what makes people suicidal and especially seeing why one segment of a population feels it more than others.
For me personally, I just feel like a complete failure in all aspects of life and can't find any direction that I care to pursue to get me "on track." I'm also such a mixed bag of 1000 different "types" that I have something for everyone to dislike as far as finding a partner. I would never blame women for wanting what they want, so while I enjoy my interests and stand firm in not wanted to live with a dog, I just have to accept that I'm not anyone's cup of tea.
So tldr on that bit, I'm the problem, not society.
You exist, and you are who you are, and that is ok. You may believe that you have failed, and feel guilty or ashamed of that, and that's ok too. You sound lonely, rejected, and really hurt by your experiences, "something for everyone to dislike". These feelings suck, but internalizing them and telling yourself that you are a problem can be really unhelpful. You are worthy of acceptance, with what flaws you see in yourself. This isn't really a great forum for personal, intimate discussion, but I do hope you can talk about your experiences with someone you trust.
Hey man, you don't have to hold the world up by itself. Not everything is your responsibility. In fact a lot of what people are saying here that are causing these spikes are a result of isolation and society failing our people. All out individualism isn't that great for people. We need interdependence because we can't do this all alone. We need that sense of community that has all but been demolished. It's good that you aren't blaming others for your problems, but also, society could be more helpful/beneficial to you instead of kicking you to the curb instead of making everything seem hopeless. It could provide you the tools to climb out instead of leaving you in the well.
All this to say, is that please don't be ashamed to ask for help. None of us would've gotten this far without help from others.
One aspect you might have to separate is the gun control advocates who just want to cite another reason for X or Y policies. Those people aren't necessarily advocating for mental health.
As an example take waiting periods. They might do something for first time buyers but the policy doesn't really make sense for the people who already have a safe full of guns to pick from. I don't hear those people talk about programs like "hold my guns" either.
No one talks about why women go through with suicide less, either. One of the reasons can very likely be that more women are the caregiver of their parents or children since the bigger number of men who commit suicide stems from the amount of men who are lonely but who also do not have to care for other people.
until society starts acknowledging men’s issues
I wonder what gives you the impression that society doesn't acknowledge men's issues?
Well, since gun control in this country is basically verboten, one of the simplest ways to reduce suicide is a non-starter.
I agree with you in the sense much left leaning conversation tends to tribalize to specific groups. Im super left leaning but I want things that benefit everyone. universal healthcare, universal education, publicization of anything that is to essential or without robust enough competition to be run by the market, citizens income. Gun control as a local issue (you can't bring guns into my house, you can't bring guns into my business, you can't bring guns into our town, you can't bring guns into our state) and federal (limitations on capability especially rate of fire, clip size, electronic assist). Legalization of suicide along with all other bodily autonomy. I find both sides like to look at things as this group or that group but I want general things myself.
I find it interesting how much western countries have individualised the causes of sadness.
It's not that strange that people are often sick in a sick society. If you're depressed, it's likely that there are things that are causing or exacerbating that depression.
Give people homes, job security, less stressful jobs, and offer them a healthy work-life balance? Far easier to deal with and possibly even heal from trauma or serious health issues.
But that costs money. Selling people pills and self-help books? That makes money.
But that costs money.
It's worth noting that a lot of solutions actually save money.
For example, universal healthcare is a big issue in the US. Around 2/3 of all bankruptcies are from medical debt. People ration lifesaving medication like insulin because of how prohibitively expensive it is. GoFundMe is of the largest healthcare providers in the country, and over 1/3 of all campaigns are for medical expenses.
They've created a system where it's prohibitively expensive to seek necessary medical care, and is built on the foundational acceptance that people need to die and suffer for it to function as intended.
Yet a universal healthcare system is projected to cost the US an estimated ~13% less than they are paying.
Around 2/3 of all bankruptcies are from medical debt
A bit misleading, though I get your point. 2/3 of people who file for bankruptcy have medical debt, not that the medical debt was the cause of the bankruptcy. Any dollar amount of medical debt factors into this statistic, so if I have $800 in medical debt with reasonable payments and I drown under a mortgage I can no longer afford and 20k in credit card debt, did the medical debt cause the bankruptcy? Of course not. It's counted anyways.
But that costs money. Selling people pills and self-help books? That makes money.
I am sorry but this is a ridiculous implication.
The vast majority of prescribed antidepressants (I'm assuming this is what you mean by pills) are old drugs with long expired patents, which makes them quite cheap. The profit margins have to be pretty low due to competition from generic formulation manufacturers. This is an area that actually could use more investment into R&D.
Self-help books are usually written by individual authors or small collaborations. It's profitable but not massive industry. The people profiting from self-help books are not anywhere near to being able to influence people getting homes, job security and work-life balance in either direction.
Many cultures have issues with depression or suicide. Including ones with a focus on collectivism.
Work-life balance could be a part of the issue. That can be an issue for individualism or collectism. Although I feel like with individualism it's easier to set your own standard.
The affordability of life is a problem as well but money being a thing won't go away anytime soon.
Everytime I see suicide statistics like these. I don't think of the deaths. I think of the misery each individual must have experienced in order to come to the conclusion that death was better.
Then I think about the nebulous political cloud surrounding these people and those who may have approached the conclusion but had the strength to carry on. I say nebulous because research is never going to encapsulate the reasons for one to kill oneself. If 50k in the US is the number who followed through, the numbers must be huge. I say this, because the suicide death statistic, is only the start of the problem - it's a scale.
Misery festers at all of us. Labels, drugs and conversation can help, but it's just burying the problem for it to resurface later. Until we start getting political movements towards human needs, this will continue.
I think of the misery each individual must have experienced in order to come to the conclusion that death was better.
That someone not only have decided that death is better, but also have gone through all the steps to act on it is a measure of their resolve, if anything. And as you've said, they're still a rarity. On the spectrum of entertaining occasional thoughts to taking steps to actually doing it, the further you go, the less common it is!
That a lot of people have already gone this far, just how many more are mulling about it, questioning whether or not life is worth it, whether or not to do anything about it? And this "it gets better" mantra keeps some people from even speaking up! Why speak up when you're just going to be slapped with a thought-terminating-cliché? It makes it harder to know how many people are miserable enough to entertain "bad thoughts", and that the only objective measure we'd have is the number of people who've gone to the very end.
I recently came to the realization that staying alive to prevent my share of an inheritance from going to the greedy bitch who married my father late-in-life is a reason to stay alive. That's fucking sad as fuck.
Don't get me wrong. I love my life. But when something so dark and grim can be phrased as a positive, things are really wrong.
Yes, and it shows how many more actually suffer that much. Since only a minority of people actually follow through with suicide. It's hard to estimate how many (try to) numb their pain with drugs, alcohol, gambling, food or whatever.
I believe it. This place sucks. Criminals and assholes everywhere, at least in my life. People claw at you and fuck you over until your suicidal. I have no respect for America at all anymore. It feels like having to live with seeing your rapist everyday.
That and nobody cares. I sent out goodbye texts to a lot of people in my life. Literally no one cares. I've had people try to push me to suicide, stalk me, and give me death threats since 2020. Cops don't care.
You're right. But I care, if even for this breif moment. Take care, when you can. I hear you. ❤️
Ok first of all I get you, as someone from Europe, the greatest strengths of America often sound like the biggest weaknesses to me.
And then ofc if you wanna talk about it I'm here and I will listen :) hope you're doing good.
American culture was deeply scarred by the cold war in ways that I don't think many people realize. Over the last 80 years, the pursuit of self-interest has come to dominate every aspect of life and in turn degrades any attempt at community or helping one another. It's quite sad actually. The America that gave my grandparents the opportunity to drag themselves out of poverty has turned around and eaten itself alive.
Literally can't talk about because I get death threats because I made some bad people mad. And I know what they are capable of.
All my social media is watched by them.
Edit: I always get down votes for my real life experience posts. The world is fucked, you just shut out anything that goes against the privilege you were born into. Life is death war and chaos. You can either live for humanity or continue making rich criminals richer while you deny reality. I've seen people get other people murdered by cops on purpose. It's real. This is America... There is zero hope.
I'm sorry maybe I'm a little triggered because this hits close to home, but seriously how the fuck can people claim "oh suicide is going up because guns"
Are they fucking blind to how things are going in the world? I'm so fucking livid right now. "Suicide is because guns" fuck off
Guns don't make suicide more likely, they make them more successful.
Guns don't cause suicide, but they make it much easier to successfully complete suicide
Handguns especially
But I doubt an increase in suicides this year from last year has anything to do with gun ownership rates
Some people are hell bent on taking any step possible to prevent suicide besides being there for their friends. The answer to the suicide problem shouldn't be suicide nets. The problem isn't the means it's the motivation.
Hint to a friend that you might feel suicidal, now you have 10 fewer friends who "don't want to deal with your shit".
Suicide number decreased when we switched the type of gas ovens used. Use to be that you could stuff up your windows and doors, turn on the oven, and slowly drift to sleep into death. Now you will just be slightly warmer. Of course, that is a supply side solution. And just like the republican war on drugs, supply side solutions never get rid of the underlying problem.
Everything people need to live is getting more expensive, wages are stagnant if not falling with respect to inflation, and we are forced to work longer hours and have little hope for retirement. We are bombarded by stories of violence, drugs, and theft. Oh, and climate change is starting to destroy the livability of planet earth. There is zero surprise that people don't want to keep living under these conditions.
Gee, no healthcare, no mental healthcare, no dental, no public transportation, Republicans trying to cut social Security every five seconds and our taxes go to. . .what exactly?
Trump last gave corporations and banks about 1 trillion in tax breaks and that "trickled down" in the form of piss on your face and a final result of corporations laying off workers anyway and not strengthening the economy.
I know the solution! More guns! /s
Friendly reminder that statistics like this that aren't adjusted per various should be taken with a grain of salt until the per capita* figures are available from the CDC.
Just like murder rates etc: if you take only the highest number of something and don't adjust by population it's unclear if it's actually worse than it has ever been or not. It's not even clear if it is worse than last year without per capita figures.
Not trying to minimize the tragedy of suicide but a lot of people read meaning into figures like this without context.
America is a fucked up shithole.
This will be a hot take for some but people opt out of a life that's pointless, miserable, painful, and hopeless. Preventing people from access to methods of opting out is but a palliative measure.
Sure, people can be dissuaded from making an attempt by making it difficult, but isn't it far better to address why people want to opt out in the first place? And of course, it's best to do both: prevent people from making attempts, and address any issues they might be having in their lives. Even better, provide "end-of-life" care for those who really have had it enough for whatever reason.
Why lock people into a miserable existence anyways? Someone might have been prevented from opting out, but if conditions don't change (and no, it doesn't always "get better"), you've got a person will just resent even being kept alive. What good does that do?
Now, for the trash take: I suspect suicide is a problem because suits can't make the line go up if people are killing themselves. The suits need people to consume and not kill themselves.
I was almost one of them about a year ago. I was horribly depressed and constantly thought about ending it. It was to the point where I was even planning out the letters I would write and how exactly I would do it. Thankfully I never committed. I cut off pretty much everyone from my hometown and went to a different highschool where I found a caring friend group.
I'm glad you are still with us, please stay.
I intend to
People need hope that they can have a future and that it's one worth living. Without that, despair is a natural outcome. If our societies cared half as much about ordinary people as we do corporations and the military, there would be a lot less despair.
rising cost of living wages not rising with them scam of a healthcare system you will own nothing unless you slave away for the rest of your days
Color me surprised
The article only benchmarks the total number to percentage of Americans once then just talks about the total number increasing over time. It would be much more helpful to just see this as a relative percentage to total population as I'd expect that number to rise regardless as population continues to grow. Not disputing the data, but think that would be a better way to analyze it.
Yeah the 2022 figures in that article are meaningless.
According to a more well-written article: the 2022 suicide mortality rate was 14.9 per 100,000.
AKA 0.149% so that really is a jump.
Dang, I missed the train.
There's growth, thus everything is fine! /s
Stop killing yourselves and kill the fucking bad guys, you cowards. Every one of those lives could have been used to make the world a better place for the rest of us, and instead they all just quit.
That plan works real well until the person decides the 'bad guy' is a minority group they don't like, a certain nationality, or even society in general then they go and burn a mosque, fly a plane into two towers, or attempt to release sarin gas in a metro station.
There's no one true 'bad guys'. The whole idea of good vs bad is driven by what you put value on. If you held individualist values you might see collectivists as the bad guy and vice versa.
You gave examples of a bunch of objectively bad people and then said bad is subjective. Hard disagree.
If only the forces of evil are willing to kill and to die for what they believe in, then evil wins, forever.
Is it an ideal solution? Fuck no. It's wildly messy and uncontrolled. But the bad guys are winning, and they have been for a while. Continuing to do nothing isn't going to fix anything.
murder is wrong