Ontario slapping 25% surcharge on U.S.-bound electricity Monday, Ford says
Ontario slapping 25% surcharge on U.S.-bound electricity Monday, Ford says
Ontario provides electricity to New York, Michigan and Minnesota
Summary
Ontario will impose a 25% surcharge on electricity exports to New York, Michigan, and Minnesota starting Monday in retaliation for Trump’s tariffs on Canadian goods.
Premier Doug Ford warned U.S. governors and vowed to maintain the surcharge until all tariffs are lifted.
Canada has already imposed $30 billion in retaliatory tariffs, with more planned.
Ford also threatened to cut power to the states by April and banned U.S. firms from bidding on Ontario contracts. A $100M SpaceX deal for rural internet was also scrapped in response.
Kudos to the Canadians and Canadiens! I ordered another pair of Baffin boots, Made in Canada, last week.
Based Doug Ford was not on my 2025 bingo card.
When Trump said "America is back!" did he mean in the back of the line? Cause that's where we're at fellas.
Looks like Crude Oil Tax would be FAR more effective.
Can they get the Fed to drop the F35 contract for a European platform?
Heres to hoping! Not if peepee gets in
Hold up - if there is already a 25% tariff - IE tax - on Canadian electricity, does that mean that there is now another 25% tax on that electricity?
And wouldn't this have a slight compounding effect on the second us tariff?
Yes, but us postponed their tariffs another month.
Thing that sucks tho, is at this point it doesn't matter if there's tariffs or not, since people have started preparing as if there will be. Worse, tariffs get integrated into an economy and are next to impossible to un-do. God 45 is so stupid
The era of US-Canada being brothers in arms is over. I doubt US will be receiving any favors in the future without something in return. And if Canada chooses to expand their supply chains outside of the US, which they 100% should, there’ll be no coming back to a scale of trade as it exists today.
There is no greater enemy than a friend betrayed
Trump doesn't want Canada as a friend. They will just try and stop him from deals with Russia.
I cut off a Canadian guy I was friends with recently, this guy agreed with everything Trump was doing.
Told him I don't associate with Trump supporters, even weirder you're Canadian (and lives in Canada)
He said he didn't support trump, but reads all the policies front to back and agrees with them.
I said ok, bye and blocked his ass, we can talk again when you get invaded and become 51st state you love him so much.
Wtf is going on?? He had some bullshit reply to everything like he was Canadian maga.
It basically boils down to this: Trump is a lying, racist, rapist.
How do you put trust in anything he says? I can show you 200 lies, with evidence, just in the last week. He loves Putin and himself, gives no shits about us. He's already broken long existing agreements with other countries, he CANNOT be trusted, no matter how good what he says sounds. His goal is to exact revenge on those that don't like him or have said something bad about him, his skin is so thin. You don't "accidentally" rape a person, he is an absolute terrible human being who deserves zero respect from anyone. Fuck Trump in the neck with a metal pipe.
Living in rural Alberta, I am actually fairly amazed how little I encounter Trump supporters since he's been elected. If they are around, they keep their stupid fucking mouths shut.
I know at least 3 that vocally supported him during the election and have nothing good to say about him now, and the fact that Smith seems like she's in bed with him has caused them to re-evaluate their UPC support. Polievre is probably still safe because nobody is voting Liberal, but people talk about how he didn't push back against the tariffs, and it didn't reflect well on him.
I know they're still out there, but there's an Oh Canada streak that's pretty deep in rural areas countering Trump's bullshit.
The same forces that created Trump are at work in Canada. And they are supported by US organizations. Have you noticed that suddenly even second tier US politicians have opinions about Trudeau, Carney, and Pollievre? It is the same as Musk in Germany. We are under attack.
Cant fix stupid!
I've met people like that here in the UK too. Trump has this incomprehensible charisma for arseholes the world over.
That's a problem we have globally. Although it might seem like Trump style populism vs Canadian neo-liberalism(with all it's pros and cons), we're both purple. You guys just have a bit more right wing red in the dye mix. It's plausible that Canada elects our own Trump then we can both be stupid.
The only ideology that has a chance at stopping the populist wave is Sanders style social democracy because it addresses the same core issue of wealth disparity. But it doesn't look like anyone is electing that anytime soon.
Reich wing populism is on the rise, globally.
So, he might hate Trump, but he love the Canadian version.
They're the Austrian who likes Hitler.
Up until a couple of weeks ago, Canada was well on its path to elect a right leaning government. Trudeau has already resigned and his party was in the gutters. So that tells you how majority of Canadians have been feeling. There is extreme false-facts-driven anti-immigrant sentiment going around, imo, propagated by the same media that is doing so in the US.
Luckily, Nazi musk and his orange monkey’s moves have taken off the veil for some Canadians so there is still some hope for sanity prevailing in their upcoming elections.
Someone I know just keeps telling me he disagrees with every policy that's bad, while also saying he agrees with Trump for 50 things per the 5 he disagrees with.
Anyway that relationship is very sour as you can imagine
Canada - America trade amounts to a little over $920B https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12595
Canadian GDP is a little over $2.1T https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?locations=CA
We're talking nearly half of their GDP. In addition, half of Canadian foreign investment comes directly from the US. They will continue to be integrated into the US economy, even if Trump doubled the tariffs tomorrow.
And that's because Canada, and Mexico to an even higher extent, are completely reliant on US trade. They both have no real choice but to grin and bear it. They will of course speak out publicly for the domestic audience but things will continue more or less status quo for the foreseeable future.
Just do it please
As an American- Agree. The dumbfucks in this country aren't going to understand they fucked up, until the pain kicks in.
It will likely take awhile for this to have any effect. I know at least in my state (ME) the utility needs to give a 30 day notice of rate hike and then that needs to then go to committee within public utility commission, who will basically arbitrate the request for increase.
Consequently, my supplier of electricity is a wholly owned Canadian company...so they'd actually be paying the increase until a rate hike was approved. Also, would a punitive rate hike even be approved?
They have enough trouble getting a 1% rate hike though for building infrastructure.
Edit: Although I'm not up to speed on if the affected states have set rates or variable rates.
Any foreigner should avoid visiting US or buying US products to put pressure too.
It is crazy to advocate for it, as I live in US, but this administration needs pressure from everywhere.
Yeah, I'm discouraged to even buy American because Trump and the Republicans have basically turned that into a nationalist policy. I used to love buying American and local, but it feels gross to think that I'm supporting their agenda.
Brit here, I make sure to try and pay more attention and avoid American products now. Not that I bought many before, cola is probably the main one when at a pub/restaurant. Now if there is nothing else I want I just get water. So probably a healthier switch.
why is it crazy? what benefit do you see from 'prosperity'? how much of each of those tourist dollars goes to you? if you don't have any investment in the system thriving, what reason do you have to not bleed it every chance you get? what of their policies actually provides benefit to you, and how much effort do they demand for what they offer? ask this of your employers, your governments, and every aspect of your society, if you want a world that works for you.
No offense but Trump would welcome these on highly liberal Minnesota and New York and be impartial to Michigan. These are not affecting conservative states.
The states as a whole are liberal, but the rural northern parts are fairly conservative. It's the northern parts that consume the bulk of the electricity imports
Yes. Unfortunately, it's a very blunt instrument. The rest of our tariffs have been ultra-targeted, but Doug Ford really wants to do something and this is the main tool he has provincially.
There's enough rural, conservative areas within those states that would be affected I imagine Trump will have some blowback. How much is hard to say at this point, especially given that he's still adding and removing his own tariffs all the time.
It will affect the customers, who are rural. The states are blue, because of their cities, but the cities aren’t reliant on Canadian electricity. The rural areas are, and they vote red.
Makes you wonder if this is the first phase of what he meant about "blue states completely disappearing off the map" next year.
I'm not entirely sure he would care either way to be fair, but you do raise a good point.
punish the fucking pigs anyway.
I'm certain he's doing it for the wrong reasons, but it's nice to see the angry raging conservative attacking a genuine asshole for once.
Honestly he's even doing it for the right reasons. His country has been economically attacked. Not to respond would just make it worse.
I suspect he's playing it up for the camera in order to differentiate himself from American conservatives now that they've begun turning on Canada. It's something I imagine we'll see out of Poilievre as well, because otherwise they'll quickly become unelectable.
Just remember that they were chums all up until this point, and that's still damning. Ford supported American conservatives all the way until the leopards turned to eat his face. Yeah, it's cool that he's going above and beyond to fight back now, but he still wants Ontario to act like Texas.
Glad Canada is sticking to I because they’re sending a message Trump that they’re not going to fuck around with him flipping the on/off switch on tariffs
I think the damage is done. I hope to never see American liquor in stores ever again.
Exactly -- the threat of tariffs -- and annexation! -- must not only stop, but be refuted forever by a new treaty, signed by the US. Promising both will stop, for good, is the only remedy now.
Trump himself signed the treaty that he now claims is unfair. The US doesn't have respect for honour, the law, or even reality anymore. They voted in a criminal to be their President, they have no respect for anything except money now.
There is no promise or treaty that will bring this to a conclusion forever.
Do what you have to do it's all good. I'm going to be part of the brain drain in this country. My wife and I are POC we are guaranteed first class tickets to death camps or be made slaves for existing. Our populations have been marginalized and kicked in the ribs for centuries. We have no reason to fight or to 'stay and fix the country' any more than the German Jews of last century did. I don't want to be made responsible for what racist whites have enabled to happen in this country.
I've got quite the resume and I've been having trouble finding sponsors overseas. I would love to be a part of the brain drain.
I feel that it has never been easy to leave the US and just find a country that will work with you to get a sponsorship. I know they may view us unfavorably now but we were looking at Germany originally because of the Chancenkarte visa. We looked at Spain but would have to forego working for a few years before we would be eligible for citizenship. We decided to go back to my Wife's country of origin so we have fewer issues.
I'm about to get my Mexican permanent residency 🥳
I'm ok with this and live in one of the affected states.
I like it, but I'm a little confused.
Why does an individual province determine trade policy? Is this normal for Canada?
The deal is between the provincial utility, which provides the electricity, and the state utility. In the USA, the federal government controls most resource rights. In Canada, it's the provinces. Comparatively, provinces are a lot more powerful than states are. As I understand it.
Life Pro Tips:
To USA Residents: If electricity is too expensive, you could always save money by shoplifting 😉 (go for the big corporate chains)
you could also consider creating a militant (as in, try to get some artillery) tenant's union and reclaim your living space from your landlords.
Shiplifting? Settle down popeye
yaRrr 🏴☠️
(sorry my pirate brain must've subconsciously took over 😉)
I'm waiting for him to tear up the gd damn Starlink contract that he keeps threatening to do, but hasn't done.He said he's ripped up the contact.
Drug Fraud isn't known for keeping his word.
Drug Fraud is hilarious 😂. I'm gonna use this later.
Ontario has already ripped up a $100-million deal with Elon Musk's SpaceX to bring Starlink's high-speed internet to rural and northern communities and remote First Nations.
Article claims it's already happened!
Thanks for the correction. I'd only seen news that he promised to do that, but not that he had.
Hopefully they actually killed that contract and not just saying it for clout. They better have a plan to still provide better Internet services to these communities.
My wife's family had to deal with shitty xplornet services for years while living in the sticks. They literally had no internet for weeks and xplornet was like "we don't see any issues on our end". It took multiple calls to actually get a tech to finally come out, but then said nothing's wrong and left it at that, despite no internet still. Xplornet just eventually started ignoring their calls. They got starlink and haven't had an issue since. It sucks that it's owned by Elon "the man-child Nazi" Musk, who could just decide to cut off services in Canada. Doesn't help our own telecoms are dog shit in their own way either. It's long overdue getting the rural and remote communities access to Internet in Canada.
It's a Brand New Ford!
Not enough, it should be 100% and another thing if we have a surplus that we sell, why the fuck is electricity so expensive in Ontario!?
Why is electricity so expensive in Quebec? Because fuck the people that's why 😑
I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of commerce but I do know Canadians are also getting fucked by Canada. Electricity, lumber, construction materials are artificially expensive as fuck. Since covid the price skyrocketed because of price fixing and no-one did shit and they stated high.
Same with food prices, telecom.... I love Justin standing up to Trump, but it's also true that he's failed protecting the average Canadian. Corporations have run amok and no-one has stood in their way.
It is expensive (the most expensive in North America *) because it is low in fossil fuel generation AND uses a lot of renewables with variable production.
The only way to keep the system stable is to rely on fossil fuel generation outside the jurisdiction to offset the peaks and troughs that happen on short time scales.
Ontario actually pays the bordering states to take away excess energy, and they can do it because their gas fired generation can act in seconds to balance supply and demand.
The power EXPORT from the windmills costs the ratepayers in the province over $1B a year...
Similarly, many of the hydro projects rely on seasonal foreign demand. For example BC produces a lot of extra hydro in summer season, and there is air conditioning demand in California during those months. Its not as if the province can hold that water and use it for heating homes during winter.
(* because of unreliable supplies, large consumers like industry can't actually operate in the province because they cannot get reliable contracts... This is about 1/2 million jobs. This is a big part of how Ontario became a have-not province, actually. I had multiple clients from Ontario's generating sector who told me that they "did not want" to enter power contracts with penalties around outages, so if a car plant loses power they can lose millions per hour, and the power companies didn't want to commit to anything. All things equal, big factories can move to Buffalo NY and pay half the price for Ontario energy... )
Basically, it's expensive because of the costs of remote jurisdiction dependencies and the lack of true self sufficiency.
And Trump cares that these blue states will be cut off why?
Maybe a state like NY votes blue in state wide elections, but they vote in a lot of Republicans for the House in districts outside if NYC
We are blue in cities.... a lot of house support for Trump comes from those red NYS districts.
Since Trump wants to complain about the trade deficit, Canada should cap exports to be equal to imports from the US. Poof no more trade deficit.
Just cut off the oil, that would do it.
Alberta makes all their money off oil, most pipelines dip down into the US because Native groups have a fit whenever pipelines attempt to cross certain provinces. Michigan has the same fit about those pipelines, but that's mostly because ships dropping anchor over the pipelines and the ecological disaster that would occur makes them uneasy. Everyone wants oil, but until the world turns into Minecraft and we learn to send liquids wirelessly, someone's fucked.
Why are mostly blue states getting punished for shithead? They should be focusing on red states. They’re the ones who voted for this nonsense.
I wonder if ON can impose a 25% surcharge solely on Michigan? Ultimately, it doesn't really matter. Plenty of people from Minnesota (47%) and New York (43 %) voted for this nonsense.
Eh, upstate NY is probably all red, save for perhaps part of Albany. NY State and NY City are very, very different.
If they don’t like it, they need to find a way to hold their president accountable. Trump can end this conflict with a word. Until then, we do what we have to.
Because, it turns out, that blue states and red states are part of the same country. I think it's a stupid way to do things, but that's what you guys have settled on.
USA is USA.
People outside of the USA will treat you the same as you treat any other nation. Does trumps tariffs only target the liberal provinces?
Canada can't exactly cut off power to Texas
However, we're willing to export our Arctic Vortices to Texas free of any additional levies.
Texas handles their own outages perfectly well.
I don't know all the facts but maybe if more people.votrd in the first place Donald wouldn't have won? Maybe not.. But Americans should be pushing back and they haven't done anything yet but complain online. Pushing any single one of them to take action is better than only attempting to punish the ones who don't even care.
In addition to the other answers, there are still red districts in blue states, such as NY-21 currently held by Stefanik and has a large border with Canada.
Unfortunately they are the ones getting power provided to them from Ontario.
It's too bad they can't just do 50% on MAGA households and non voters. Somewhere in NY there is someone who actively campaigned to prevent this and continues to protest and they're getting a 25% price hike anyway.
At least we can target businesses and billionaires more directly, although unlike the average voter they need a lot, lot more pain before they change.
Yeah, you simply can't micromanage policies to effect another country to that granularity. It's why people should think carefully about who they elect to represent their country to the rest of the world. The US elected a criminal to represent them, so they have to expect they're going to feel some pain by their association with that criminal, whether they voted for him or not.
DTE in shambles