The Imperials were seconds away from executing me for crossing a border. Fuck them.
Is there "yes man" story line like it was in fallout new vegas?
No, it's an odd one because you can do pretty much every quest for both sides right up until the end, and then it just goes "pick one and kill the other".
Kind of robs the game of a satisfying conclusion, but at the same time is like real life in that there's very rarely a perfect choice. You could always abstain and not do it of course.
I sided with the filthy Imperials, mostly because I couldn't really think of any of them I hated, while Ulfric's second-in-command rubbed me up the wrong way.
Imperial was really the only way to go. The stormcloaks winning would only result in them being wiped out by the thalmor anyway. The imperials were bending the knee just enough to survive and maybe have a chance at freedom in the future.
Sadly no, and that's a real problem because as racist as the Stormcloaks are... They do seem to be the lesser evil given that the Empire is actively working with the Thalmor and will even force changes to major world religions just to appease them, and the Thalmor are far FAR more bigoted than the Stormcloaks, going full mask off on wanting to enslave anyone who they can't genocide away.
The Stormcloaks do not like foreigners in their country and if you're an Argonian or an Elf they REALLY don't like you.... But their main point, that the Thalmor want to criminalize their very culture and kill them are, is valid, if it wasn't then the Stormcloaks would be the clear villain.
I kinda wish the Thalmor weren't part of the plot, because the twist of the underdog rebel group being evil and the big scary empire being good is actually a genius subversion of expectation.
Edit: I want to underline the whole "The Empire bans aspects of major world religions because the Thalmor told them to." part, because I feel like it's easy to overlook that as a big detail. In real life, it's still fucked up, but at the end of the day "So what, customs change over time and it's not THAT big a deal."
But this is a Fantasy setting where the reason for the major religion being major is because you can literally prove it, and even go to the Nord afterlife and meet Talos, the guy they banned the worship of, and find he does live up to what the good book says about him.
Meaning it's less "Tone down the religion because aspects of your practices are offensive to elves", and more akin to "We will kill anyone who acknowledges the Law of Gravity."
A strange game. The only moral move is not to choose.
Removing the Thalmor would make Skyrim a much less nuanced game, it's better off for not having easy moral choices.
While it's bad that the Empire basically outlawed a major deity due to losing so bad to the Thalmor, I still find them the correct choice to pick during the civil war questline due to them trying to work against the Thalmor and build up their strength for a counterattack, so to speak.
What the Thalmor wants in game is for the civil war to drag on and be a drain on the Empire's resources, however a Stormcloak victory is also acceptable to them due to Ulfric being a useful idiot and that the Empire's power would wane and be easier to conquer later (y'know, divide and conquer).
And Legate Rikka, one of the higher ranking members of the Legion, worships Talos and prays over Ulfric's body when you kill him. So it's more of a case of banning Talos worship but not fully enforcing the law.
Most people out here would really shiver and die upon isekaing into any medieval nation, really.
It's a damn medieval game for Christ sake, people killed each other for much less back then.
The bigotry of low expectations
I've been saying that for a while. Nobody to root for in the game. Not the Empire, not the Stormcloaks, not even the Forsworn. And the Forsworn thing is a whole racist trope of its own, holy shit. You have basically this blackface take of Native Americans, who've been wrongfully dispossessed of The Reach, but they had to make them all black magic worshiping, centered around the witch/hag hierarchy, every weird colonialist slur you could even dig up from the "Manifest Destiny" days. Skyrim's great as like a fidget spinner for the ambience and the like, but man does it have problems.
It is just such an excessively mediocre game, that I'm still surprised to see people talking about playing it to this day. Just.. why?
why?
Eternal recurrence
"What, if some day or night a demon were to steal after you into your loneliest loneliness and say to you: 'This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sigh and everything unutterably small or great in your life will have to return to you, all in the same succession and sequence—even this spider and this moonlight between the trees, and even this moment and I myself. The eternal hourglass of existence is turned upside down again and again, and you with it, speck of dust!'
"Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse the demon who spoke thus? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment when you would have answered him: 'You are a god and never have I heard anything more divine.' If this thought gained possession of you, it would change you as you are or perhaps crush you. The question in each and every thing, 'Do you desire this once more and innumerable times more?' would lie upon your actions as the greatest weight. Or how well disposed would you have to become to yourself and to life?"
- Friedrich Nietzsche
I don't think you seriously know the lore of the Elder Scrolls and the way it usually works out, and are really projecting your own prejudices without realizing it. The Forsworn are a take on Breton mythology in The Elder Scrolls universe, and The Elder Scrolls universe is essentially all about subverting the expectation of what you thought the past really was like, what it truly was like, and the transposition of both of these into the same time frame. Hell, the whole concept of Aedra and Daedra may be a literal manifestation of this dichotomy at the "god/demon" level, "may be" because in true Elder Scrolls fashion the lore never tells you in an outright manner and just drops hints within the lore.
Neither the Empire or the Stormcloaks were supposed to be wholly good options, the player was supposed between distinctly flawed options, where siding with the Empire might very well have been the best in an imperfect world option. I suspect that the fact that the player base was as divided as they were between the two is why they went the complete opposite end of the spectrum in Starfiled and just slapped you with the "this is what you were supposed to choose!" companion commentary.
The more I hear about Starfield the more I'm glad Baldur's Gate 3 blew it out of the water.
The Forsworn thing is completely on the nose. I don't know what "take" you're saying it is.
You could go for the "they're telling you all options are imperfect" theory, except they dramatize the fuck out of the whole thing to make it seem as "epic" as possible (esp with the Stormcloaks). The same way the rest of the game is, that so oddly seems to coincidence with neo-Nazi Nordic idealism. I don't have prejudices about the game, it's a text with content and that's what the content is. I think real life is more black and white than the absolutely muddled amoral mess the Empire vs. Stormcloaks conflict is. Not to mention the constant implications about the sinister Aldmeri conspiracy that never seems to have any resonating significance in the plot.
I feel like I'm in the vast minority when I say that the game is heavily overrated
People make paragraph long rants on why skyrim is an amazing masterpiece, all while Todd sweats heavily behind the curtain, fearful for the day people realise he just bashed together a bunch of random shit to create a bloated mess
Nah, you're right.
As someone who kinda liked morrowind, and was disappointed with oblivion, skyrim just fell flat for me. The engine got better, but there just was less and less substance to it each game. Ignoring the content, just the base mechanics were stripped down to almost nothing.
I've got a friend who is experiencing oblivion for the first time after years and hundreds of hours of skyrim. They're becoming increasingly upset at skyrim the more they learn about what was in oblivion but was removed.
You're maybe in the vast minority of normies, but I think a lot of gamers have actually realized how lame Skyrim is. There's certainly hours long rants on Youtube breaking down each little issue the game has, as well as examining it from the perspective of modern game design and as a failure of the Elder Scrolls brand, but beyond that; is anyone really holding up vanilla Skyrim as the pinnacle of gaming any more? Even Bethesda realized it needs mods to be enjoyable.
To be fair, Morrowind needs mods to even be PLAYABLE
Skyrim is one of my most played games in my library. It's a 6/10. Better sandbox RPG games in the same genre just do not exist.
Skyrim was released in 2011, originally designed for the PS3 and XBOX 360. According to Statista, over 60 million copies have been sold as of June 2023. Regardless of any subjective feelings we might have, let's agree that the game couldn't have been this popular based on hype alone, so there must be something that makes it special.
I suspect that what you're experiencing is not an overrated game, but the source material for a broad swath of games that have improved and iterated on many of the mechanics and ideas that were presented in Skyrim (and Morrowind, Oblivion, etc).
It's like saying that you're a fan of sitcoms, but you hate Seinfeld and Friends. Those shows weren't perfect, but they created demand for a new type of show that has been modified and improved in numerous ways since they were aired.
Similarly, Skyrim is far from perfect, but when you put it into context, it is easier to see why it was successful. In 2011, Skyrim was THE option for an open world rpg with skill progression, decisions matter, and a crafting system. It was released in the same year as the original dark souls, Portal 2, battlefield 3, and Minecraft. If I'm completely fair, the Witcher 2 also came out in 2011, but had a more linear storyline, and was also one of the first games where your decisions mattered.
The fact that we're even having a discussion about this game in 2025 should be a testament to its success. While I haven't played it in years, I'd have a hard time agreeing that it is overrated. It certainly isn't underrated, so maybe we could agree that it is appropriately rated, given the relevant context?
Appeal to tradition fallacy
Just because something seemed good back then, doesn't mean it aged well. This is especially bad for skyrim because Bethesda made oblivion and new Vegas before it
Eh... It's boring...
Any decent DnD session or literally writing your own story surpasses it in my opinion
My first impression of Skyrim blew me away.
I came down from the hills early in the morning into a sleepy little village. Feeling peckish, I struck a nearby chicken to harvest it for meat, and was immediately made an enemy by the village. Without any weapons I ran towards a small bridge, but got surrounded on both sides. I jumped into the river and let the tide carry me all the way down away from the angry mob down onto a snowy plain where a blizzard was taking shape. I wandered through the blinding snow heading for the tree line, whereupon a met a frost troll herding goats. To my relief he ignored me, but as my hunger took hold of me, I decided to try to take a goat for myself. For the next 6 hours he stalked me across the landscape. I ran through woodland and mountain and lake to escape him and still he came in relentless pursuit. I ran upstream away from his lumbering stride, swam through parts unknown until I came to a town, where to my relief, there was an armed guard. I tried to beg him for help, but he recognised me from somewhere and took to arms instead, as the troll continued to stalk me from the otherside. Trapped between certain death, I jumped into the river once more, and to my everlasting relief I saw a fleet of guards attacking the troll. He made mincemeat of them, and then turned to me and smiled.
I think at this point it's a lot of nostalgia. But the game does have a lot in it, so once the jank becomes endearing rather than off-putting, it is easy to lose yourself in my experience. There are still heaps of quests and parts of the game I haven't finished. And if I want to replay something, I can approach it very differently each time.
I think it's an okay game. I think it was the best available game with mass appeal (see overlap of marketing with early Game of Thrones) during formative years for a lot of people, which extended and amplified the volume of discourse.
100%
To be clear, I think the game is still fine, but like the worst kind of fine. Like mediocre fine. Like I find the vast majority of quests absolutely mind numbingly boring, even if they technically add to the experience and function perfectly well
People point at the fact that you can walk in practically any direction and stunble on a quest or landmark, but I really have to ask how many times they've actually done that?Let alone how many have gone on to complete the quest or dungeon once found
Almost all quests and dungeons, outside of the main story/side quests, felt practically identical. It gets to the point where you feel like you're forcing yourself into cave number 196 just to get another level up so you can pick locks slightly easier, meanwhile all the enemies become slightly beefier, undoing all your progress
And don't get me started on the levelling system. I hate how enemies don't really get harder the further into the game you are, but rather they just have more health and damage. When you can barely go back to some bandits at the start of the game after 15 hours it really feels defeatist
Compare this to botw and elden ring. Yes, they have a similar problem where their shrines and catacombs started feeling samey towards the end (and on subsequent playthroughs), but each one still had a unique gimmick, making them stand out amongst their peers. I love replaying each one every now and then (gone through botw 6 times, elden ring 3, started skyrim 15+ times and completed 0)
The most fun I'll always have with Skyrim is wistfully thinking what my next character should be, before playing for ~2 hours, and remembering all my problems with the game
TBF, whomever you escape Helgen with doesn't lock you in to their side of the war.
You can choose to escape with Ralof and later join the Legion. I think there's even some special dialogue when he recognises you during the fighting
Drag can see a completely clueless player escaping with Ralof, receiving instructions to go to Windhelm, obliviously walking past Segregation Lane, and swearing fealty to Ulfric without using any critical thinking or caution.
Skyrim was baby's first RPG for a lot of people. Lots of people played it that didn't really expect or were interested in engaging with moral complexity in their games, to the extent that it really existed in Skyrim.
Skyrim civil war in nutshell:
One side - ambitious and zealous racist who got fedup when species that have ages old beef with his people fucked Imperium, and then spat in the face of nords.
Other side - A scorned mother that got pissed old traditions resulted in the death of her child and became petty incarnate deciding that these traditions are yucky only after they fired against her.
Still on Ulfric's side ideals wise, but the racism pisses me off x_x
They really could have used "Mr. House" and "Yes Man" equivalents. Like, Im 100% sure a Dragonborn can take over shit, or Talos's name isn't Tiber Septim.
Still on Ulfric's side ideals wise, but the racism pisses me off x_x
Same here! I started a new game a few months ago and am actively ignoring both of the major factions, and it's been the best playthrough yet.
On the one hand, I sympathize with the Stormcloaks over the religious shit (the concordant banned Talos worship). I mean, the gods actually exist in this world so that's kinda fucked up.
On the other, once I got to Windhelm, I kinda didn't care about that anymore.
"Shit, maybe Talos is the reason these dudes are so racist... They only like him cuz he's a human. And a Nord."
Its rumored the aldmeri dominion tries to keep the war going. Both sides are mostly made up of nords from Skyrim. The civil war helps keep the empire weak while also pitting a group known to hate elves against each other. Many stormcloaks would glady fight along with imperials if they were spilling high elf blood.
And also Talos died and ascended to godhood a long time ago, so he isn't around in person to cast holy smite upon any of the dipshits preaching war crimes in his name.
Basically, Talos is the in-universe Jesus.
Unless you prefer the other version of events presented in the game, in which case Talos was not a nord but instead a breton
I choose this version mostly because it is funnier, but if the in-game book that discusses it (the Arcturian Heresy) was written by who it says it was written by then it's probably the truth
I think the last time I played Skyrim, I walked up to Ulfric and shouted him to death. Rest in pieces, motherfucker. Then I turned it off and went on a years long Stardew Valley binge.
On year seven, after Mayor Lewis sold out to Joja despite your best efforts to restore the community house, you challenge him to a battle of Junimo-singing and frighten him all the way off to exile on Ginger Island. Half the town side with you, but the governor rolls in (in his Joja-branded limo) and rules with an iron fist, bringing in cheap labour fleeing the Gotoro Empire, and torturing those who try to resist.
"Stardew belongs to the valley-folk!" you cry from your farm, now fortified and suffering the bitter winter month.
"M'lord Farmer Sir," says Vincent, now grown up and serving as your errand boy. "News came of a trader caught trying to enter from the Calico Desert. The Gov's forces were going to execute him-" (would that be poor Robin with her famous axe?) "-but he was saved by the ominous arrival of a green jelly!"
For a moment your hopes rise: are the prophecies coming true, that you found inexplicably written in a note in your farmyard tree last year? Will this mysterious interloper perhaps give you victory and free Stardew Valley from the clutches of the evil governor and his swarms of cheap immigrant labour? ... From the dirty, rude, immigrants ... From the immigrants...
You slump forward in your hands downcast, at last facing the terrible realisation: that you have, in fact, become the very evil you once swore to destroy.
The game is great and all that, but god it is hard to fully remove all the junk it leaves behind on your system. You really need to check out that mod when the time comes to get rid of it.
