[Dormant] Electric Vehicles @lemmy.world MyOpinion @lemm.ee 3mo ago

Efficiency can cut EV prices by $5k, charging costs by nearly a third

www.greencarreports.com Efficiency can cut EV prices by $5k, charging costs by nearly a third

More efficient EVs could be the key to less expensive electric cars and cleaning up the environment.

In a new white paper, the group notes that boosting efficiency allows for smaller battery sizes, which in turn cuts costs. Most EVs average 2.5 miles per kwh, according to the paper, but the Tesla Model Y averages 3.5 miles per kwh. That's a 40% increase which, assuming similar range, allows for a 40% reduction in battery size that's worth up to $4,800 in cost savings, the ACEEE reasons.

32 comments

I wish we could have Tesla without the Elon. My girlfriend and I would be allll over the model y if not for Elon.
- It would be amazing to have Tesla sold to someone else and Elon gone.
- The camera only system is not very effective though. Maybe if it was without Elon and was upgraded to use LiDAR
It's absurd to me that the new norm in EVs is to pack 90-100 kWh in a car. With this amount of capacity, I could run my house for almost two weeks (8kwh/day).

Lets build and maintain a proper charging nework so we don't have to buy batteries that last 600km/400 miles.

With good charging options, 50kwh should be enough for most people.
- Lets build and maintain a proper charging nework so we don’t have to buy batteries that last 600km/400 miles.
  
  Shit just make an actually efficent car and you don't need that massive of a battery to get those ranges. Instead manufacters keep pushing this hideous EV SUVs. The model 3 gets 40 more miles of range out of essentially the same car, just are more aerodynamic shape.
  
  I still don't understand why not a single car company besides Tesla in its early days is like, shit, let's look at what consumers actually value and build it. Easy cash grab that puts us ahead of the curve. But no.
- The poor design and manufacturing of EVs by most American car makers is absurd. The EV hummer is just disgusting.
- With good charging options, 50kwh should be enough for most people.
  
  Using my Model Y effective range for comparison, this would drop the range in ideal conditions to about 200mi. In cold weather this would probably look more like 150mi or less. With the recommended 80% limit for regular charging, that could be as low as 120mi. That's also assuming it's always plugged in at home which isn't the case for everyone, and harder to do when you have two EVs sharing a home charger.
  
  The other significant tradeoff is the time it will take to charge on a longer trip. You'll be charging more frequently, a smaller battery may charge slower, and you'll need to charge to a higher percentage in order to continue your trip. It may take 20 min to get that first 80% charge at an L3 station but if you need the last 15-20% it could take an additional 25 min. This is also ignoring the increased utilization of busy charging locations, where two vehicles at a single stall will each charge slower.
  
  I'm a huge advocate for EVs but I would not be comfortable with that range or happy with the experience on longer trips, and these are top concerns for potential buyers.
- I bought a Model 3 in 2019 with a 50 kWh battery and can confirm that 50 kWh is more than enough for the average person given that efficiency is up to par.
  
  It is now 5 years later and the 50 kWh Model 3 is still the most efficient EV.
  
  Since then everyone just slapped bigger and bigger batteries onto their cars to get larger range numbers, driving up price and reducing efficiency.
  
  I'm excited that we finally see an EV that values efficiency again with the Aptera.
  
  The Aptera looks very interesing and futuristic. I'm not sure that this car will find enough buyers though...
- Not sure where you live, but 8kWh/day is very low for a house. You'd have to have gas heat/hot water and no/minimal AC to get anywhere close to that. Just putting this out there for perspective - almost nobody will get 2 weeks of power out of 90-100 kWh, and if they do it's usually because they're burning other fuels. I'm in Colorado in an all electric home and use 3x as much as you. Totally agree that we dont need such bloated EVs though.
  
  You're right, this is both without heating and cooling. We have district heating, the only thing that is running in my house is a pump. And no AC.
Aptera is actually betting it all on efficiency. Not only it reduces the battery size required, but it also makes regarding faster and solar recharging more viable. If you only use it for short commuting, you don't even need to plug it in anymore. Just leave it parked outside in the sun.

Meanwhile the rest of the EV industry is sitting in the corner eating glue with their stupidly huge, heavy and inefficient SUVs and trucks that waste resources to make batteries. Elon being the worst with his moronic cybertruck.
- I think one of the coolest bits about Aptera’s approach is how you don’t really need to worry as much about cooling. If you trust their 100Wh/mi estimate, that’s an average draw of around 6kW compared to 15kW in even a Model 3.
  
  Assume 90% efficiency (conservative), and its the difference between dissipating 600W of heat (midrange computer) vs 1.5kW (hairdryer). Passive cooling options especially around the batteries become more viable at that point.
  
  I'd still want active cooling on the batteries for charging in hot areas or with fast charging
This is how they will raise the price $5000 for the same specs.
- Yeah and most Tesla's weight like 4000-5000 lbs. How about some weight reduction?
  
  I looked into it once and found that the drive train weighed about 1200lbs (can't remember which model). That was battery, motors and controllers. So after all the heavy stuff Tesla managed to add an entire Mustangs worth of weight. A lot of it is normal stuff like air bags but some of it it things like motorized trunks. Man, I can shut my own trunk. Don't need so many gadgets.
- And then lobby for larger tax credits
2.5 miles/kwh = 25 kwh/100km

3.5 miles/kwh = 18 kwh/100km
- Mile/kWh?
  
  Thanks, is corrected
efficiency allows for smaller battery sizes, which in turn cuts costs.

Bo, it'll cost the same for the customer, the shareholders will scrape any differences.
Does the Tesla model Y actually get 3.5 miles per kwh though?

Since the current EV production focus is on either sport or large models, it should be obvious that they are going to be less efficient, just like ICE sports and large model vehicles. The white paper is correct that smaller and more economically designed models would be far more efficient, but obvious conclusion is obvious.
- A german car club tested the (european) model Y and got this result
  
  The 2021 test vehicle had an efficiency of approximately 2.75 miles/kWh (22.6 kwh/100km)
  
  The recently tested model has an efficiency of approximately 2.93 miles/kWh (21.2 kwh/100km)
  
  The promised efficiency is approximately 3.68 miles/kWh (16.9 kwh/100km)
  
  Source: ADAC
The GM EV1 went 80 miles on a charge. Using NiMH batteries. In 1994.

I’d love to see how far a modern Honda Insight 2 door would go with modern batteries.
Aptera eat your heart out
how will this does when its its fully going will really tell us https://aptera.us/

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