Privacy @lemmy.ml ModerateImprovement @sh.itjust.works 1mo ago

Does GNU Taler provide all the privacy benefits of crypto without any drawbacks?

taler.net GNU Taler - Taxable Anonymous Libre Electronic Reserves

A payment system that makes privacy-friendly online transactions fast and easy.

32 comments

No as it's not point to point. It involves an intermediate party to broker the transaction. Think that like a bank. You need to apply for one, which most likely involves KYC. Taler is designed such that the recipient is known, for tax purposes they claim.

In contrast, AFAIK crypto can be P2P, only involving the blockchain and miner/validator that don't know you. That's what not Taler try to do.

EDIT: Add correction to crypto description.
- So it is a card replacement while crypto is more akin to a cash analog. If the two coexist in the digital world, that would be awesome.
  
  Let's keep cash around as well
- This is a weak point of GNU Taler. I assume one will need to have a bank license to run GNU Taler instance. And banks will not be very motivated. We can dispute how GNU Taler can be better (or not) than crypto, but it is pure theoretical now.
- The problem with crypto is that is chaotic. It also has the major downside of being very computational and requiring a ton of energy.
  
  In contrast Taler is a payment system not a crypto. You could technically could use crypto with Taler if you wanted to. Taler has lightning fast payments which have way less overhead.
  
  In summary I think cash and crypto are good for small transactions such as paying a friend but for big businesses and normal shopping Taler is better
  
  I think crypto can achieve stability, not by pegged to a fiat currency but commodity backed. There are also mechanisms and algorithms that can confirm transactions without using excessive energy, be fast, and private all in the same time. I still think crypto have a future. Yet I don't know how far that future is, but for now I will stay away from it as far as I can.
seems like a good middle ground tbh. No cryptocurrency will ever reach the adoption of fiat. This could make online transactions that would otherwise be made over your creditcard, bank or insert fintech like Paypal quite a bit better

And I'd rather have this than a "digital Euro" or "digital Yuan"
No https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines
- We have a fight about Taler every few weeks.
  
  I'll summarize:
  
  Positives
  
  Centralized, no bad people doing bad things
  
  Fast, because its centralized
  
  Doesn't use proof of work, because its centralized
  
  No currency conversion, because its centralized it can stay in Fiat
  
  Cons
  
  Centralized, if the central authority thinks you or your business is bad your shit out of luck
  
  Discoverable, the Central authority has all the information to deconstruct all activity (yes they do, no really, they do)
  
  Not actually private
  
  A solution looking for a problem
  
  Fight amongst yourselves repeating the above points.
  
  If you care about privacy you will use Monero, if you care about centralization you will use whatever your local bank transfer system is.
  
  Taler is not centralised. I think you are thinking of CBDC?
  
  Taler could be described as semi-centralized at best. You are free to chose your exchange and you can easily use multiple the same time. It really isn't that different to crypto-currencies in that regard if you consider the need of fiat exchanges for real world use there as well.
  
  I should note, there are cryptocurrencies that also don't use proof of work. Ethereum, the second-largest, switched away from proof of work two and a half years ago.
- The problem with pulling Betteridge is that this isn't a headline: this is one person asking a genuine question in a Lemmy community.
  
  They are not asking a genuine question, 27 day old account, 310 POSTS (not comments) in 27 days.
  
  Its a headline
Want to butt in here quickly and bring attention towards the fact that crypto currencies in general are not meant to be privacy preserving.

You are literally broadcasting transactions, making it impossible to leave no trace.
- https://www.privacyguides.org/en/cryptocurrency/
  
  Except Monero
AFAIK it has no exchanges yet, so for now, it doesn't provide anything at all.
- The German coop-bank that is part of the current pilot project has recently stated that if everything goes according to plan they will begin offering it before the end of this year.
- Yet is the key word. It is rapidly getting close
It provides most of the benefits of "crypto", the ones that normal people actually want, with the added advantage that it might actually end up being usable.
No, because it's not decentralized.
- It federated which is decentralized in my book
Both better. Proprietary money is a scam.
Not really. Maybe it can give more privacy than transparent crypto like Bitcoin, but private transactions in crypto are superior.

32 comments