Microsoft in their infinite wisdom has replaced the Hide Desktop icon with Copilot.
Microsoft in their infinite wisdom has replaced the Hide Desktop icon with Copilot.
Switch to Linux!
From Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/1as1yjk/microsoft_in_their_infinite_wisdom_has_replaced/
You're viewing a single thread.
Just once I would love to open one of these threads without seeing people shitting... on Linux.
Linux is not even the one doing anything wrong but people gotta rag on whoever recommends it as an alternative. This is getting more annoying than however annoying they say Linux users are.
edit: Just to make clear because some folks aren't getting it, this is not an invitation to argue about how you feel about Linux and Linux users. I. don't. fucking. care. I don't even use Linux. Take it to someone who cares.
People be like:
tbf I get it. Sometimes you just want to be mad.
But like, it's Microsoft's fault.
Or Adobe, Autodesk, Nvidia, etc.
"Hey I have a problem with my Samsung"
"Drop it and get an iPhone instead"
This is what you guys are like.
When people tell you to use Linux, they're not telling you that to solve your immediate problem (e.g. your "show desktop" icon has been replaced with a different icon), but they are telling you to get out of your abusive relationship with Microsoft, because that is the real problem: Microsoft does not respect you, the end-user of their product, and this kind of abusive shit will keep happening for as long as you keep using Windows.
Who asked you for help with our relationship? I believe someone complained about a random feature change. And here you are. Telling everyone to just fuck off and switch completely. It’s insane.
JFC people like you ... You have like the worst case of Stockholm syndrome I've ever seen. I swear the only reason you are getting so angry and defensive when people recommend Linux is because deep down you know they're speaking the truth.
No. It’s annoying being told the only solution is to throw everything out the window and start over. No stockholm syndrome I run a Ubuntu server and ran arch when I was 14. Fuck off with your stupid takes and offer a real solution to the problem.
Fuck off with your stupid takes
Yeah, real mature take you have there buddy.
offer a real solution to the problem.
"My husband always beats me when he is drunk. Don't tell me to leave him, just tell me how I get him to stop beating me"
^ This is you basically.
No. That is your perspective to a situation. That is not fact. Stop valueing your own voice so highly. You start to forget you can be wrong.
Listen, if you don't like what I have to say, don't read my comments, block me or stop replying or something, but I'm not going to shut myself up to please some random twerp like you.
Listen I'm all for Linux and use it myself, but this is not the way to get people to switch. Even I'm starting to get annoyed by all the answers in these threads being "Just switch to Linux, there are definitely no problems and it's a 1:1 workflow." (Yes, hyperbole. But you get the idea.) If a user has an issue and does not want, or cannot, switch to Linux, then Linux is not the solution.
You're not wrong. They're still stuck in the "abusive relationship" with MS. In fact you're absolutely right. But trying to push Linux onto these people like this only results in their view of Linux getting worse, and makes them more likely to stay on Windows to avoid the insufferable Linux users. It's coming from a good place, but it's honestly not helping. Every solution needs to consider the user's use case and their parameters, or else it doesn't matter. In the end what you're saying is not wrong at all, but you're still not offering the right solution.
they are telling you to get out of your abusive relationship with Microsoft
And how well has that worked so far?
For people like me who took that advice: pretty damn great actually, thanks for asking!
How many people have you managed to convert in this thread?
Me! Switched to fedora from Windows about 3 years ago and don't regret it one bit. Probably the best decision I've made in regards to personal computing in my adult life.
If you switched 3 years ago, you haven't been converted in this very thread.
Did Lemmy even exist 3 years ago? I thought the Lemmy migration was only last summer.
it has existed for many years but it wasn't much fun til it hit a critical mass of users
Yeah, since 2019
lead dev
Even if it's only one, I will have helped one person, unlike you who has only been bitching and moaning.
If that's what you think will improve how the Linux community is perceived, then do go on.
I keep seeing this, and yes, it's running the image of the Linux community. Even for me who's part of it.
"Help, Windows problem."
"Linux is the answer."
"But I want to use Windows."
"Then you're a stupid ingrate who's below me and deserve nothing good in your life."
Do you hear yourselves? I'm exaggerating, but come on guys. You're better than this, good grief.
I'm actually helping someone from this convert rn.
I did switch around a month ago due to a thread similar to this, and I have booted windows like twice since then, and im really glad I made the switch. So, yes, threads like this did help me, while also providing good starting tips.
More like:
“Hey I have a problem with my Samsung”
"Here's a custom ROM you can install instead" (but also glosses over a lot of the finer decisions that go into whether or not to choose to run a custom ROM)
iPhone is $999+, Linux is completely free.
It’s funny this meme of iPhones being expensive is still a thing.
The cheapest one is under $450.
That's still expensive compared to $0
why would anyone buy an even more pos phone. I had a 12 and 13 before my pixel there is nothing good about them, unless you are insecure about people's thoughts on what color your msgs are. also you don't need to copy and paste you comment on everyone's damn comment no one give a fuck.
You need to chill.
I responded to a grand total of 2 comments with the same sentiment but they were not copies of each other. The over the top aggressive response is completely unwarranted.
What's more is that yours and my mom don't need flagship phone performance and what you refer to as a "pos phone" would do just fine for the vast majority of people's use cases without coming close to utilizing all available resources.
I'm correcting the evidently popular belief that iPhones are expensive. As it turns out, only the expensive ones are expensive. Imagine that.
you don't have to pay for a +1000$ device to switch to Linux. In most cases, you can just install it in the same machine you have Windows.
It's more like replacing Samsung's Android ROM with a custom ROM. Sure, you'll have to learn new things to use it, but you don't have to buy an iPhone.
I'd argue that's still not a very good comparison, because for ROMs you have to go through the trouble of researching the specific method for your phone brand, model, & firmware version, learning adb, unlocking the bootloader, flashing a custom recovery, then from there you can install a custom ROM. Then if you fuck up you have to figure out how to debrick the device.
While Linux(user friendly distros specifically) is just burning an ISO to a USB, possibly changing 1 or 2 settings in the BIOS & booting from that USB, then just clicking through a graphical installer like calamares.
The barrier to entry is drastically smaller.I get what you’re saying but I just want to point out that the lowest cost iPhone is under $450.
Nah, I switched to Linux last year and it cost me $0. No new hardware needed. So not a good metaphor.
You misunderstood what the metaphor was.
Are iPhones free now?
It does sometimes feel like a guy with face scars from an exploded Samsung reaching for another Samsung while saying "I hope they've made improvements"
Lol you wish Linux was an equivalent to an iPhone in this analogy. Pretty analogy from you.
I don't think this meme applies here. The person who's mad isn't the one using Windows. They got mad about a "problem" someone else was having and decided to use it as an excuse to push Linux.
Exactly. The Linux bros are not offering a solution. They are the same people as the “just move” people. Annoying ass trolls.
But moving costs money, switching to linux costs nothing (if you have free cloud storage or a second drive to backup and migrate important data, even then you could get one of those for cheap or free depending on your needs), and with how linux is these days there are distros that are as plug and play as windows for basic tasks that most people do, and a welcoming community and infinite resources to make learning curves small if you want to take on something more advanced. Further than that Linux can be more friendly, allowing easy configuration and GUIs to do things that would require "hacking" to do on windows or third party bloated applications.
I'm on a more advanced distro, but it's basically easy-mode arch skipping the technical set up stage, and honestly it is not hard to pick up at all, if I did what I did on windows my experience would be roughly the same except I designed my own task bar set up and my PC has been running quieter and more efficiently, everything past that is me tailoring my experience past what a normal user would do.
I tried linux a decade ago and it was sluggish in the UI and didn't have support for a lot of things but these days it feels 99% to what windows is for me with some extras. It's time to switch for people on the fence, especially with the rapid enshittification of things.
I think the hurdle isn’t money but time, and yes it takes quite a bit of time to learn a new OS, figure out why your graphics card is running so slow, move your files to an external drive and back, find alternatives to the programs you use and learn their quirks and missing features, learn the difference between apt-get and snap and flatpak when programs only support one, figure out what a .tar.gz file is and how to install one (what was that chain of commands with “sudo make” in it), find tweaks and workarounds to get certain games working in Proton, and do that all again if you don’t like the distro (because Linux users love suggesting new distros)
You are totally right about the time, I agree with you there, it did take some time for me to make sure I was ready for an install but once I got it it went super quick and I haven't had any issues with graphics even though I'm using nvidia. As for the terminal, I'm probably an outlier but I'm totally fine with that and I do have some previous experience from when I was younger messing around in ubuntu that made it easier now even though I'm on a much different distro.
Your solution isn't a solution though it's like saying that the solution to drowning is to set yourself on fire. It's just a different kind of problem.
No it isn't.
It's more like saying: if that guy you hang out with keeps pushing you into the water and you almost drown every time, perhaps you should stop hanging out with that guy.
Of course, that's not what people who are in an abusive relationship typically want to hear.
"He's always ready with a life preserver and a towel though"
It's hardly a big deal, none of what Microsoft has done is really that annoying. Individually they are barely even noteworthy.
Switching to Linux is a huge pain in the ass to have to go through so Microsoft would have to do something seriously messed up for me to even want to put up with it. I'm not assuming that I could find equivalent programs that even ran on Linux.
That's exactly the kind of shit abused people say to justify staying with their abusive partner. ("Oh it's not so bad" - she says with a black eye - "and he's really sweet normally")
Yes in the short term it can be painful to leave an abusive person you've come to depend upon, but in the long term it's always the better solution.
Switching to Linux is a huge pain in the ass.
This is literally how MacOS and long time Linux users feel when switching to Windows.
And how many people are telling Linux users to switch to Windows?
Not many, but you'd be surprised.
Yes, I would be very surprised.
Literally abusive relationship cope. LMAO.
And in this case they aren't even drowning. They have a slightly annoying icon in the corner of their screen.
Linux isn't a solution if you play competitive multiplayer games, which most people do.
Edit: keep being classy basement trolls, you're only proving my statements about the shittiness of the linux community with every downvote.
What??? Do you have a statistic on this like does most of the population of earth play call of street fortnite 20 or whatever "competitively"?
I think you are confusing "professionally" and "competitively". Anyone playing to win is being competitive.
I don't think that many people even play video games nevermind online ones nevermind competitive ones
https://truelist.co/blog/gaming-statistics
Like 41% which is more than I expected but only a tiny fraction of those use PCs
call of street fortnite 20
Is now permanently in my lexicon.
I'm upvoting you because I know what you're trying to say. Personally I don't have a lot of time to game anymore but I vote with my wallet and I try to only buy games on steam that are linux native. I have found a lot of great indy games this way and I don't feel like I'm "missing out". Still, I get it.
which most people do.
Lolwhut?
Most people who play competitive multiplayer games (a minority of total users) do so on console
"But the controller is an inferior aiming device"
"Yeah and the foot is an inferior ball handling device, but soccer still exists as a game"
Fair, but also depends on which one's.
~40-45% of them do actually work.there are 3 billion people playing videogames, most of them playing casual af shit like candy crush (https://explodingtopics.com/blog/number-of-gamers).
About "competitive" multiplayer games: have you tried proton? I myself was sticking with Windows untill i eventually tried it.
Linux is not a solution if you have a skill issue. The longer people have this kind of mindset you have, the longer Microsoft will pretend to be a monopolist, the longer they will behave like total shitheads towards their customers.
Is proton also a work around for easy anti-cheat now?
It literally is. Played Hunt: Showdown and Warthunder with no problems at all
I am not sure if most people play competitive multiplayer games
Sounds like something a Bronze leaguer would say
"most people" = "most teens". I don't know any adult that plays competitive multiplayer games other than maybe CSGO.
Care to cite sources for that? Haven't seen people playing "competitive multiplayer games" from most people in a while, now.
Fuck off sealion
Oh, are your gaming statistics hurt?
You probably live in some weird outlier community. 88% of Americans are competitive gamers now.
Lol yeah "most people" definitely do not play competitive multiplayer games. Are the other children in your friend group literally the only other humans you've ever met?
As is everyone taking every possible opportunity to mention Linux. It's not like we don't know it exists, we don't need constantly reminding that it's an option.
Although it isn't an option for a vast number of reasons, but mostly because corporate IT requires systems that run only on Windows. Therefore the only solution is Windows so the fact another operating system exists is utterly irrelevant and yet somehow you guys constantly keep mentioning it. Then we constantly have to point out that lots and lots of programs don't run on Linux and then you will inhibitively start going on about Wine. It's tiring. I would love it if we could have a conversation about Microsoft without having to pretend that other operating systems are viable alternatives.
If Linux is not for you that's understandable. The thing here is that they are not having a conversation about Microsoft. They are having the pettiest, least technical possible discussion about Linux, it's devolving to pure clique shit talking.
If you want to talk about Microsoft, just talk about Microsoft.
Problem is, whenever you try taking about Microsoft, someone just has to interject and be like "yeah you should be using Linux instead"
I'd just like to interject for a moment…
And whenever someone mentions Linux, we have to take up 75% of the thread responding to it.
That's actually hilarious.
Then stop talking about Microsoft
/s
The Microsoft company is not happy with me--that's okay, I'll still keep downloading patches for that garbage.
Or how about
- You can't easily define what apps start with startup
- Even when wine is installed , lot of programs won't run in wine
- You cannot easily find where the program is installed like you can in windows
- You attach a external disk but some apps won't see it mounted making it Impossible to explore in their file picker , not all but some
- There is almost huge lack of programs , for which there is huge possibility that a windows program exists.
- There is constant need to use terminal for lot of things for which you can't a program see point 4.
I keep telling Linux is still not for common home use for users who are in between power users and people only using it for browsing. This will get me downvotes here on Lemmy all the time . Linux edge lords are their own bubble.
All but one of your points here appear to be your lack of understanding Linux and/or user error. Point 4 (2) is understandable due to Windows just being the default and most popular choice.
Even point 4 is something I have never experienced, and is probably also lack of understanding.
A filesystem is either mounted or it isn't. Mounted for one program but not for another doesn't exist. If they don't see it in the filepicker, they probably just don't know the mount point.
Point 4 is listed twice in the comment. So I used "4 (2)" to point out what I was responding to. The second point 4.
And that’s exactly the fucking point. It’s a terrible idea to tell people to switch. Cause they don’t understand it.
That's not a very strong argument.
When you started a job, did you understand it all? When you first started using Windows, Android or iOS, did you understand it all? No you didn't. As with anything you've never used or done before, you won't understand the ins and outs or know what to do in many situations. You learn about them. I certainly didn't know much about Linux when I started using it. In an IT environment, I had to learn. I work with Windows and Linux on a daily basis. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. I use both on my personal devices.
You wanna know what my job pays me to do? Create and edit Visual Studio solutions. Checkmate atheists.
No. But starting a job pays me. Changing OS over a minor feature is a completely insane waste of my time. You are aware of the context of this post right??
Why is micro shit even the first choice? Go ChromeOS or something cool. Smh
Because MS puts work into backwards compatibility, so the business who paid someone to write an app for them 30 years ago can still use it today on a Win11 box. No shot of that happening on macOS, who has deprecated PowerPC and 32-bit support, and Linux is just too much of a wildcard.
I rarely see that,. But what I see all the time is Linux lovers being toxic fanboys trying to shove their "passion" down everyone's throat. Also, 99% of them being wrong about what it can "offer".
Its a pure superiority complex fanbase.
Complaining about Linux and Linux users happens in every Windows-related thread, and you are doing it right now.
As a slight aside I am also sooo tired of people calling talking about something "shoving down our throats". People talking about someone you don't care for is not physically assaulting you. That expression seems to exist solely for people to wind themselves up over stuff that absolutely doesn't justify that level of outrage.
It's shoving down throats when Linux is brought up in every single Windows discussion. The complaints about Linux are in response to Linux users never being able to just let it lie, people aren't just bitching in a void.
This is absolutely not people being mad for people just talking about something. I have an extremely hard time believing you truly believe that is the issue here.
There are countless places to discuss Linux without bringing it into the comments of every Windows post. Windows users are not commenting on every post in the Linux communities about how much more straightforward running Windows is.
It would be like vegan eaters commenting about how good it is to be vegan on every post in food communities that features non-vegan food.
Lol this is a thread that was started because of a minor cosmetic windows issue, where the proposed solution in the original post is to switch to Linux.
It's Linux users shitting on Windows to begin with... With the response being essentially "Linux doesn't meet my needs".
I used to think evangelicals were bad, but this is a whole new level...
Fanbase because the philosophy is based on owning your computer. If some asshole you don't know needs your trust to run their closed-source-no-one-really-knows-what-it-actually does inside what is no longer really your computer just because you paid for it then here...here's a dum-dum. Hands you a sucker.
Well maybe stop suggesting that the solution to every tiny little cosmetic inconvenience is to completely switch operating systems to one that has notoriously flakey hardware support.
I would say "notoriously flakey hardware support" is a false statement these days
Nope, still true of the last time I tried Linux last year. The sound system stopped working after every reboot, and clicking the distro's built-in update button completely trashed the system.
But it doesn't have an AI button in the corner, so I guess that solves my problem!
Nope. And that’s the problem and why people like us tell the Linux fan boys to fuck off.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Well in my personal experience it has been rock solid
I guess people downvoting you are thinking of Brother printers, AMD graphics cards and Intel WiFi cards. Sure, it’s great when you have the right hardware, but what if you don’t. I’ve banged my head against Optimus and Broadcom, until I learned to be extra picky when buying a laptop.
Ah yes notoriously flakey hardware support. Like Microsoft doesn't used it to power their entire cloud platform. The hardware support argument is dying tbh used to be true about 20 years ago
Nope, still true of the last time I tried Linux last year. The sound system stopped working after every reboot, and clicking the distro's built-in update button completely trashed the system.
But it doesn't have an AI button in the corner, so I guess that solves my problem!
Maybe try another distro?
Also I’m curious. What distro were you testing with?
The last time I tested the waters it was with Debian, Mint, and Ubuntu. Each one had some kind of issue on my system that made me give up.
I usually check in once a year or so to see if things have improved.
These are all Debian based. Debian is notorious for using old kernels and spotty hardware support. I had similar issues trying to install Ubuntu on a new-ish PC recently. Fedora worked like a charm though.
I was tempted to try Nobara since it was a gaming pc but I was discouraged by opinions from the community telling me it was not exactly the best idea.
Next time I might go for Bluefin though. It’s based on Fedora Silverblue (immutable OS) and I’ve heard great things about it. Apparently also has GPU drivers for NVIDIA baked-in, which I need.
Sounds interesting enough to give it another shot when I have some time.
If it helps, I've been running OpenSUSE Tumbleweed on my main 3D/gamedev production rig for a while. Yes, using NVIDIA too!
It's a "rolling release", so it's cutting edge with supported hardware and all the software updates. It's surprisingly stable because of the automated testing they run through.
I've had bad updates before, BUT, if you install your system using the BTRFS file system (default), you get something called Snapper that works similar to "Windows System Restore". You can just roll back to a previous snapshot and either re-update or wait until things are more stable.
Nvidia has proprietary drivers for OpenSUSE as well, and since I've used those, I haven't had very many problems.
The biggest issue I have is that my machine has trouble waking from suspend. It's a tricky one to nail down, from what I understand.
Multiple monitors with different refresh rates is iffy, but I disabled "Kscreen" and have had no problems. (Don't worry about this but wanted to mention it just in case)
KDE is pretty neat and I felt at home coming from Win10. Now I only dual boot into Win10 for occasional games. I'm not touching Win11 at all, so I'll migrate my games over once 10 is no longer viable to hang on to.
Lastly, the community is really helpful and kind. They've helped me out a lot and I've learned a ton. Maybe I'm a nerd but I found "computing" to be a lot more fun on Linux. The biggest hazard being getting distracted cozying up your computer instead of whatever you signed on to do.
Sorry for the long post, but hope you might find it useful. :)
Maybe suggest a solution instead of a fucking entire new OS. It’s like the “just move” people.
I think the problem here is that a majority of the power to change lies in Microsoft's hands. It's their OS, and there's not a whole ton we can do to halt their constant, greedy arrogance.
So, switching to Linux isn't the easiest "solve all your problems" solution, but in the long run it simply removes a lot of stress of constantly wondering what stupidity Microsoft is going to force on you next because they "know better" and figuring out how to counter it with some hacky fix. (But also knowing no matter how hard you try, the thing is built to profit off of you.)
If somehow we could make Windows feel like it was OURS instead of THEIRS again, I'm sure people would be all for it.
'Just switch to Linux' isn't a solution to a problem. It's a tired and lazy ass response that is frankly starting to make me dislike this place.
OK well if you're looking for the actual solution to the problem brought up in this thread..... here: https://i.imgur.com/nHEcFG2r.png
When "this lemon is too sour" is the problem, maybe "here, try this orange" is the solution. Can you imagine responding like "No! People are always talking about oranges! I'm sick of it and won't try one!" Ridiculous...
Trying an orange is a lot easier than creating a boot USB, copying all your files over to an external hard drive, installing a new OS, fixing weird things like the graphics card having crap performance or the laptop screen brightness not dimming, learning the weird 3 letter file structure, being bogged down by apt-get vs snaps vs flatpak and adding repos (why not search and download an .exe like a normal OS), realizing that your more specialized programs don’t work, etc.
Besides, it’s not just ONE person, seeming everyone says it every time a lemon has a scratch or a blemish or too many seeds. And then they dramatize it by calling it an “abusive relationship”.
Yup. I’m about over lemmy cause of this shit. Linux bros are worse than vegans.
Agreed, just glance at the linked Reddit thread and it’s refreshing how little Linux is mentioned. I’m really tired of seeing it (and related FOSS circlejerking) on every vaguely related Lemmy thread and I suspect that’s where most of the “Linux bashing” is coming from, we’re just sick of it.
"or the screen brightness not dimming"
This. Have this issue on my laptop, tried to fix it, didn't work. Not gonna bother with Linux now when I've had this issue happen to me both on said laptop and my desktop
I can see the appeal in Linux and wouldn't mind continuing to use it, but I will stick with Windows because I am more familiar with it and because I play games that can only run on it (Not saying this part to you but just in general)
I mean "Just fix Microsoft and change its direction to be less consistently hostile and disrespectful of users" is a solution...
"Put an end to the data and attention harvesting economy" is another.
...but...switching OSs was easier for me personally, until we figure out how to wrangle a tech behemoth or fix underlying problems with human civilization.
How much more practical it is to complain about users of a different system than the one the thread is about? It got to a point people are doing this preemptively even.
Lol holy persecution complex, batman... This is a thread shitting on Windows.
You'd think but here we have your annoying ass throwing insults at someone you think uses Linux.
Just once I would love to open one of these threads without seeing people spam "USE LINOOX INSTEAD!"
- Switched to Linux years ago
- Sometimes I need to help a friend or do professional work for someone else's komputer
- I am annoyed about some stupid Windows thing I have to deal with
- People tell me to switch to Linux
But Linux can do everything that Windows can!!!! :)))) /s
I love Linux, but it's extremely annoying how many threads there are showing a mildly annoying and optional feature in Windows with 10 people replying "Use Linux!". As if Linux doesn't have a ridiculous number of UX problems itself.
It happens because Linux users are like vegans. They can't shut up about it. And they don't realize that using Linux doesn't make them special or a member of some cool club nor does it mean that they have any friends.
Fuck linux, the've had 30 years to make a consumer grade product but NoooOOooo all the devs spend their energy making 50 different weakly compatible distros that no one needs.
I'll say it again, fuck linux. Fuck linux and its shitty community of elitist basement trolls.
Are you ok?
No one appreciates concern trolling
Maybe the mods wouldn't be an asshole to you if you didn't act like one yourself
They started it, and I'm not backing down.
