I was and continue to be shocked that there are conservative Star Trek fans. I just can't wrap my head around how they justify it. It's very clearly painting socialism and left leaning ideas as the universally correct ideals which will lead us to a utopia.
The show is also about a space navy that has near total autonomy on the frontier, securing the interests of the Federation while inducting new worlds into its ranks, with our heroes being the Good Guys who are high ranking officers in the military who give orders and investigate conspiracies and hold life and death in their hands as they fly around their heavily-armed "totally not a warship" exploration vessels.
It's very Space America, and at times almost libertarian in its politics and non-interference. It's not even explicitly socialist, all we know is that they don't use money, except when they do. The writing is sort of fuzzy on the matter, which results (regardless of the intention) in an economy that doesn't actually seem that different to our modern day in practice. There's no money, but people still own businesses and talk about buying stuff, which allows for the economic system to fade into a sort of forgettable background space.
Besides, Star Trek isn't necessarily about a socialist future. It's about a post-scarcity future. I think that's a key difference. I've spoken to many conservative fans who say that they believe that capitalism is the only way that we can achieve a post-scarcity future, i.e. invent replicators. Because Trek isn't about a worker's revolution, it's about the slow progression of technology, followed by a nuclear war, and then at some point they just sort of got rid of money because it was obsolete. All we even know about it is from one-off lines.
There's a bunch of info on the economy of the Federation in this article on Ex Astris Scientia.
It makes me think of the Culture series, another sci-fi universe I'm fond of. It's even more leftist-coded than Star Trek, yet somehow Elon Musk is a fan of it and names his rockets after ships from the books. Apparently Jeff Bezos is a fan too. Ugh. And as a result, a lot of people's first introductions to the series is through these awful people, since it's a lot more niche than Trek.
all we know is that they don’t use money, except when they do. The writing is sort of fuzzy on the matter, which results (regardless of the intention) in an economy that doesn’t actually seem that different to our modern day in practice
At most they use credits, which at least according to this guy, are at most a peripheral, 3rd party currency, or at least a currency the federation uses for external trade, and that's what makes most sense to me. Why would the average person care about federation credits when they're only used on border systems at most, and your home replicator can make you pretty much anything you'd ever want? To a person living in such a world, for all practical purposes there is no such thing as money in the federation.
There’s no money, but people still own businesses and talk about buying stuff, which allows for the economic system to fade into a sort of forgettable background space.
They never seem to talk about buying stuff unless it is out on the frontier, exchanging with foreign entities, etc. It also doesn't seem like businesses in star trek (at least the above board, earthlike ones) aren't anywhere near today's businesses. To me, it seems that they are treated as family businesses, with limited "employee" count, and with each "customer" getting their service/food/item for free, within reasonable limits. It's like going over to your family's house for dinner. You don't pay, you're family and they will happily feed you (within reason). And it seems that businesses treat everyone like that.
There is no stock market, profit motive, costs of running a business. It's all done out of the goodness of people's hearts.
The Culture is amazing, it's an anarcho-socialist utopia that's much more radical free than Star Trek's society.
… I feel the same way as you about billionaires appropriating it.
Some great points!
I like Steve Shives's take on the issue
They're watching it for Crusher/Troi/Seven/Dax/Uhura. The technobabble confuses them and they think any solution they come up with in the show is just a byproduct of the fantasy premise. That or they identify with the Cardassians.
... "Multi-modal reflection sorting" should confuse you, on account of the fact it is nonsense.
Because classic trek - for all its reaching for the stars and left leanings - is still very much rooted in and reflects the US postwar mindset. We are the good guys! The best guys! We do no wrong! Which is a trough that right wingers like to feed at.
Maybe people like good writing and story telling and aren't interested in "the message"?
They're not big fans of 'infinite diversity in infinite combinations' either.
Well, basically you have 3 types of people. Humans. Painted humans, and humans with prosthetic foreheads on their real heads.
Then you have SFX aka gods.
Thought the first rule was “Greed is eternal”?
In a post scarcity society, greed becomes irrelevant.
This man doesn’t have the lobes for business.
If you can't create artificial demand in a utopian society, what kind of Ferangi are you?
Define "post-scarcity". You can't replicate everything (without programmable matter, anyways...), and some raw materials are needed to build the replicators. And latinum is a rare commodity, though I don't know why it's so value beyond its scarcity. Greed will always be there as long as some things remain scarce yet required for a functioning society.
Rule of Acquisition #1:
Once you have their money, you never give it back.That's it back in the wormhole with you
The socialist utopia that is Earth is a dystopic story for them. It's like one of us reading Brave New World.
Remember: Ferengi exists. In germany many call our libertarian party - FDP - Ferengi Party.
How can you be a libertarian on lemmy? There aren't any children here
But they aren't pedophiles! They're ephebophiles, which it totally matters to argue about the differences!
No, but if you go by reading age, I can pretend pretty easily. Much more ethical source for my kicks than actual child predation.
Is this the US libertarian which means ancap or the rest of the world libertarian which is a socialist?
Yeah. Libertarian is not only a thing for the right. There are libertarians on the left too.
Mostly on the left actually, libertarian only refers to ancaps in the US where it was co-opted from its original meaning for socialist with anti state leanings. Ancaps basically don't exist outside the US except for rare and lone individuals so it's still has its original meaning in the rest of the world.
Nah, the Prime Directive is all about staying out of other people’s business.
Yeah I know y'all read LOTR, yet none of you are anarcho-monarchists.
Meh I read a lot of the culture and am just a regular anarchist
