How to choose a computer/laptop/device that is better compatible with linux? Are there certain things to look out for when shopping?
I apologize if this has been asked a ton, still migrating to lemmy. Still stuck on crappy reddit out of habbit, but i've found the lemmy universe to be much more helpful.
Basically I've had a Dell Xps 13 9310 laptop for 4-5 years maybe? and I've put the thing through hell and back. Always (I believe) fixing it though and bringing it back to life. However, it seemed as if any linux distro i ever installed always had some sort of problems. I don't know Linux well enough yet to be able to trouble shoot because it seems there's many different routes to do it in Linux.
I've gone through so many distros and DEs and have tried everything on this thing. Well I think I finally bricked it after tinkering around with it. So I'm trying to plan a new budget setup.
I've always been a laptop guy because I love being able to lay on the couch by the TV and also have my laptop right there in front of me. I suppose im open to a small form or mini form desktop or box and just get a small display and a wireless keyboard/touchpad combo.
I just don't know how to find what's better compatible with linux. I see so much talk about "X" computers being great for Linux and to avoid "Y" computers because they dont work well with Linux (which I found out the newer Dells kinda suck. becoming more locked down and proprietary like Apple). I know there's companys like Tuxedo or Pine or Pop Os that sell their specific Linux friendly devices, but those are all too expensive for me.
I'm looking for a machine that can easily handle Linux but also handle I guess a system or network, basically something strong enough to be a stable link in my entire network; if that makes sense. Because I have many plans for things I want to learn about and add to my network or system down the road. Also something durable and fairly user friendly.
The million dollar question(s)..... how am I supposed to know which machines are better or even "compatible" with Linux? like all linux distros or flavors? I ran into a firmware/driver issue with my Dell and linux.... they provided only a handful of drivers/firmware for ONLY Ubuntu 20.04. super limited and meant as a windows machine. As far as ram and storage, those are probably not pertinent and more of personal preference. But I guess it boils down to things like the cpu, gpu, ram, idk, whatever is important for Linux? any tips or advice is greatly appreciated. I want to finally take this serious and ensure I have the right equipment for what I want to do instead of falling for the newest, shiny things lol. Thanks
Lenovo/Thinkpad will certify certain models for use with Linux, other brands sell Linux laptops. Those are obviously good indicators that those models should be safe to choose. More generally, the more popular a model is, and the longer it's been on the market the more likely they are to be compatible, just because they are in people's hands and people tinker with them and add stuff to the Linux Kernel. So stay away from the latest model that is uncertified, and don't choose the flashy, overpriced model that will see poor sales.
I have a lenovo thinkbook (cheapy thinkpad) for work with AMD chip and gpu. It wasn't one of their models certified for linux but everything runs flawlessly for a lean debian build for me. I've had linux on several laptops and this is my second machine with AMD chips, and I'll say that what you hear is true; There are way more, and better, drivers available for AMD if you go with linux.
I second this. I got a Lenovo Thinkpad Carbon X1 for work after the Dell I had originally got straight up refused to sleep. I would put it to sleep manually, close the screen and when fully closed the screen would turn back on. Also, it refused to charge properly so I just left it plugged in 24/7. One day it became unplugged and then refused to turn on at all.
I've been running Fedora for about 2 years on it and the only issue I've had that I can't fix is the fingerprint reader doesn't work in SDDM/KDE for unlocking stuff. Fprintd recognizes it and I can enroll fingerprints, it just doesn't work with KDE for some reason.
Yeah, unfortunately it looks like the reader on the X1 is a special case. Thankfully, this isn't an issue with my Z13 - the reader itself worked out-of-the-box, just had to enroll my fingerprint from the Settings menu and then added fprintd to my pam.d rules.
The fingerprint reader on mine doesn't work either. I've read up on solutions for that regards Debian but I haven't tried any yet. I have a yubikey and that works fine as an extra layer of login security.
Wonderful to know! thanks alot. I have heard alot of good about linux and thinkpads but only up to a certain generation I think? What about HP? my computer repair guy swears by HP but I honestly know nothing about HP and never hear people talk about HP either.
HP consumer products are literal garbage. The only good thing that comes out of HP is their commercial server equipment.
Lenovo won't let you down for Linux. I've run Linux on thinkpads for years, multiple generations. I used to work at IBM, so I had em for work. Rock solid machines, I still run with them today (just the newer generations).
I'll assume that was meant to be WiFi. It's indeed one of the few components that's easy to swap (a new one is about 30€), as long as it's accessible (it usually is).
For near-guaranteed compatibility, there are dedicated manufacturers like System76 and Tuxedo. Framework also claims Linux compatibility but for set tested distros (Ubuntu and Fedora).
Generally, anything with Intel/AMD graphics and Intel Wifi is pretty much guaranteed to work in my experience. For laptops, high-DPI displays can be problematic but the fixes are on Wayland which is getting higher priority now.
As a genera rule avoid Nvidia. Also google the fingerprint sensor and wifi model before buying. General advice like "Thinkpads are fully linux compatible" is rubbish. Take your time to Google all idiosyncrasies of your desired model.
Im just most concerned about it being linux user friendly and fairly durable, as I tend to mess things up and wipe my drive sorts often lol hey, i'm learning! don't game so don't need Nvidia, check. don't need a fingerprint sensor, check. so what is it that actually makes linux more compatible with some computers but not others? does it boil down to the cpu???
Focus on what you're going to use the laptop for and choose your hardware accordinly. Linux will work great as long as your hardware is not unsupported. So don't worry about that at all.
AMD or Intel Graphics. Intel networking, Atheros, or a chipset that is known to be friendly with Linux.
CPU support is fairly diverse.
Sound is fairly well supported but with some devices can be a surprise, as are touchpads. Touchscreen and webcams are generally a bit more dubious.
With desktops, I very rarely have issues but it's also easier to pick my own hardware. For laptops, I usually don't buy something that's new to market unless the component models are known to work. If it's been around for a bit I can usually Google comments by somebody else who's got one and tried to run Linux on it.
It's just that my model is a newer generation Dell and I've heard from multiple people that Dell is getting more and more locked down and proprietary like Apple, so im thinking that's why I haven't had the best linux experience on this darn thing.
I think your best bet is Framework laptops. If not, ThinkPads have superior Linux support.
Otherwise, pick your favorite model and read online. Also see if you can find your preferred model on Arch Wiki (laptop page).
Myself some time ago I've purchased Asus laptop. Spent quite some time (hobby) to get everything working (e.g. fan control) and documented everything in Arch Wiki.
Then I've got Asus Zenbook. Also had to participate in kernel bug report and test, because there were no audio. Eventually it got fixed in upstream and started to work.
Then I've got MSI gaming laptop. Had to participate in Intel DRM code issue, because 2K 240Hz panel was limited to 2K60Hz mode and eventually it got fixed too in upstream. Few workarounds are there and there, but eventually got it to work almost 100%, but audio is a bit...broken. Works fine, just first few secs after silence are silent.
Basically what I am trying to tell - manufacturers might introduce software-controlled hardware features that might work only in Windows. It requires experience and extensive knowledge to make everything manageable on Linux. :)
A warning about Framework, they're on the bleeding edge of modular laptop design (not hardware). So while they may shift laptop design entirely, the bleeding edge always cuts. I don't know anyone with a Framework laptop and if you're the first person you know IRL to have one be prepared for unexpected issues. I really hope the idea takes off but I don't envy the first adopters.
I usually go for business level dells, like latitudes. They're the go-to for corporations so they're usually pretty well supported simply because they're so common
In general its not about the CPU or GPU. Even Nvidia works kinda okay on some Devices, at least according to Nick from TheLinuxExperiment. Some apps like Davinciresolve require it, and cuda is also only supported on Nvidia. Mobile AMD graphics are kinda underpowered for some tasks.
Its more about weird hardware that isnt supported, Fingerprint readers, even keyboards going into some weird hibernation and you need to hard reset the PC as you cant control it anymore (Acer swift). Some devices like Microsoft Surfaces need a custom kernel.
Lots ot refurbished business laptops like the Lenovo T series, HP or Dell business series works well, as they also dont have weird components.
Check linux-hardware.org and if you have a running laptop, install their HWprobe and run it, to share that your laptop is working. With comments you can add what is really working etc.
Personally I would also care about Coreboot. Checkout Novacuston (EU) or System76 or Starlabs, they have Coreboot laptops. I mean, installing Linux on some laptop with a proprietary garbage Bios that doesnt get updates (!!!) anymore is pretty hypocritical. Coreboot is awesome but rare, its awesome that there are some companies and people making it run on new hardware, so I would check those out.
good advice, thank you! oh ok, so since im on a budget and i'll likely be buying refurbed or used, it'll likely be an older machine. would older computers but from the good companies mentioned still be capable of running newer versions/kernels of distros?
Welcome to Linux! Every hardware runs everything. Its not Mac or Android. Old Devices work always, as the drivers already exist. Only reeeally old stuff gets thrown out of the kernel.
Thinkpad T430's have a pretty high price on Ebay currently, I have one and its a great laptop, nice keyboard, Coreboot/Heads/Libreboot/1vyrain custom BIOS all run. But it is a really old Laptop.
Bought a Clevo MZ41 on Ebay, will attempt to flash coreboot. Was not pricey too.
Try Thinkpads, Dell, Hp. Normally older Acer or Asus too. If you find a laptop with
good 1080p display
good keyboard in your language/ you dont care about stickers
good battery life
everything normal broken, not completely old
Just search for "Linux MODEL" and you will probably find some reports.
For new hardware you want a recent Distro, Fedora (try Kinoite! ublue.it), OpenSuse Tumbleweed (try Kalpa) or EndeavorOS for easy Arch, are all good. Maybe avoid ubuntu, or use something like PopOS or TuxedoOS, which are better versions of Ubuntu, with newer packages and less annoying crap like Snap.
I am not sure if you already use Linux, but some general tips:
try to use Flatpaks from Flathub as much as possible. They are already often officially supported and have less bugs. Also the apps are isolated from your system, so they are more up to date, dont break your system, keep system upgrades small, and they have privacy advantages
use a Distro that supports Wayland very well. X11 is stupidly old and will be completely unsupported in a few years. Its already dead since a few years, as nothing changes.
try an "immutable", image based Distribution like Fedora Atomic (Kinoite (KDE), Silverblue (Gnome)) or Opensuse Kalpa (KDE) or Aeon (Gnome). They are simply modern, stable, resettable and your changes are transparent.
if you want to do any crazy stuff like code, install apps with many dependencies, do it in a Distrobox. You can install apps normally, but they are still not bloating your system. If you dont need them, delete the Distrobox and your system is clean again. This goes especially for strange University etc. software that needs to be installed with some script or something.
use a root Distrobox if you need things like USB
use fish as your normal shell, simply by editing the Terminals "open command". That way your shell in the Distroboxes has a different configuration, fish looks nice and colorful and has stuff like autocompletion.
do backups of your system and your data. Just do that always, on an extra drive. It saves so much horror of losing everything, if a drive breaks or your laptop gets stolen or whatever. If you want Cloud backups, use Cryptomator and any cloud you want.
use Syncthing, maybe disable global discovery for LAN only, for syncing your data between two or more specific devices.
use soundbound, SoundCloud Downloader (Firefox Addon) and youtube downloaders as long as they work. Download all of your music to not be dependend on those companies
try waydroid for Android apps on Linux. Use F-Droid basic as the application store, and check for "list of f-droid repositories" and add some.
You basically already know the drill; buy it from a Linux-first vendor that offers devices that you can afford. A list of vendors can be found here. Personally, I'm quite fond of NovaCustom and Star Labs. Fortunately, both have 'cheaper' offerings with their NJ50 Series and StarLite respectively.
Thanks! but when it comes to linux hardware vendors like those, for me at least, it's hard to know which ones are good and which ones are bad or unknowns. also, i did look into the lower grade star labs and there was something about the processors they used.... i did a little reading and they got poor marks for being uber slow or something. i could have misinterpreted things though.
but when it comes to linux hardware vendors like those, for me at least, it’s hard to know which ones are good and which ones are bad or unknowns.
You hit the nail on the head with that remark. Because, quite frankly, it's hard for all of us; I would love to read reviews done by Notebookcheck (or similarly high-profile reviewers), unfortunately that's simply not the case. In this case, you would have to scrape whatever knowledge you can find about these specific devices (and their vendors) before judging for yourself if it's worth taking the risk.
The reason, why I'm personally fond of NovaCustom and Star Labs, is because they're known to contribute back significantly to the open-source community; same applies to System76, Purism and Tuxedo. I didn't name any these in my previous post, because none of them seemed to be sufficiently affordable.
i did look into the lower grade star labs and there was something about the processors they used… i did a little reading and they got poor marks for being uber slow or something. i could have misinterpreted things though.
If it's about the processor being slow, then I'm not surprised. It's from Intel's N-series, which is somewhat of a spiritual successor to Intel's Celeron and Pentium lines. Both of which are known to be not powerful. And for that price you shouldn't expect a lot more, but I agree that an i3 (or something else with similar processing power) should have been possible at that price-range.
Generally it doesnt really matter but if you can it's best to avoid using nvidia gpus although they will work under Linux they don't have as good support doesn't mean you can't use a nvidia gpu under linux if you want or have to I mean I've got a nvidia gpu in my gaming laptop and while it's a pain to setup it works somewhat well for gaming
I've been using nVidia cards on laptops with Ubuntu much exclusively for ~15 years . Only problem I've ever had was once when I accidentally uninstalled something using apt-get and it took the nvidia drivers with it (because I'm was stupid).
You'll be fine just get whatever has best price to performance nvidia intel or amd generally amd gpus are best for linux because of there driver support but its still shit a good exanple of this is the r7 370s last drivers being made in 2015
Honestly people over do it with the Nvidia complaints.
Nvidia provides a rock solid driver for Linux. If you are a general consumer it works really really well and it's easy to install.
Here's the actual historical issue people have with Nvidia on Linux: it's a closed source binary which is contradictory to the ethos of Linux.
But he's the rub, Nvidia open sourced some shit this year, not all of it, but they're becoming more open about the GPU drivers. But shitting on Nvidia is a hard habit to break lol
I oughtta browse ebay and see if anybody's selling some system76 stuff. I gotta see what to do with my Dell Xps 13 9310 thats stuck in manufacturing mode first. probably sell for parts or idk?
something strong enough to be a stable link in my entire network; if that makes sense. Because I have many plans for things I want to learn about and add to my network or system down the road.
You need to check out Fedora Podcast EP: Getting Fedora with your Lenovo. For the first time they take laptop compatibility with Fedora Linux ecosystem seriously and announce it with such a deep detail on how they do that.
how am I supposed to know which machines are better or even “compatible” with Linux? like all linux distros or flavors?
I think Thinkpad line seems to be your right choice. Not for all linux distros, but at least Thinkpad has used by many developers in the world, so probably more compatible than other laptop brand IMO.
thanks alot. are there certain thinkpad models to look at or will any thinkpad be ok? i think i've heard that after a certain model, lenovo started making changes or something and it affected the linux experience. idk i could be way wrong
Dell is well known for their proprietary fuckery, both in hardware and software. Pretty much anything other than a Dell or an Ultrabook like the Surface or MacBooks (obviously) should give you very little issue. Look for something that uses Intel NICs and you should be fine, Realtek NICs are poorly supported in Linux.
I've had two Dell laptops that ran Ubuntu perfectly. Dell sells laptops with Ubuntu pre-installed and also certifies models for Linux. Their Linux support is top notch in my experience.
Seconding this, Dell has excellent support for Linux on their enterprise laptops (Latitude and Precision).
XPS are another breed, and tend to be marketed as a ultrabook or a MacBook competition.
Yeah, obviously the ones they sell with Linux pre-installed support Linux perfectly, but that's like 5 out of their 20 laptops. It would be shitty if they didn't. People tend to buy a model with Windows preloaded and then install Linux on it though. Even though I used to work for Disney+ as a Linux System Engineer, which runs entirely on Linux, I had to fight with the helldesk to get a laptop that runs Linux, they would only support Windows and MacBooks. I told them straight up that I didn't need their support and I was able to figure out things on my own. It took me about 5 months to get the Lenovo Carbon X1, granted this was during the end of the first year of COVID.
One of my coworkers had a Dimension or whatever the "base level" laptops are and absolutely hates it. He said it ran like shit but couldn't get another one.
I wiped Windows and have been running Linux without issues on a Dell XPS 13 9360 for some time, so it can be done at least with some of their models. For what it's worth I'm using OpenSUSE Tumbleweed.
Is that a desktop or laptop? The desktops are generally better supported and they just make the case and motherboard proprietary. My dad had an XPS Gen3 desktop back in 2005. When it finally died I couldn't reuse the case since it was the BTX form factor and the front panel connector was proprietary 😑
Avoid Kaby Lake processors. I specifically have i7-7600u in my laptop and must use a kernel parameter otherwise it kernel panics freezes minutes after booting. Sometimes it still freezes when waking up from sleep or hibernate. Something to do with power management or such.
Well that's the thing, I can't afford to buy new where you can just return it and all that; I'll most likely be buying a refurb or used or older but new piece of equipment or possibly piecing together my own, depending on what i can learn about what I need for a smooth and easily fixable linux system
I've been using Clevo laptops for years. Large user base, lots of great Linux support. I just run Ubuntu, haven't had many issues (and no critical issues).
They usually get rebranded, and I've gotten them through IBuyPower, Origin, and... can't remember the other one. My most recent one was just straight up marketed as a Clevo, got it on Amazon.
You might have one or two odd issues (like having to install custom code to configure the RGB key backlights), but there are plenty of users to ask for assistance on various forums and repos.
man, can't afford their gear unfortunately. my plan was to get my dell xps 13 9310 fixed (bios stuck in manufacturing mode) then sell that and use whatever I make to purchase my next device. in the mean time I get to use this old old probably decade old asus machine :)
Old thinkpads are the golden standard of Linux compatible laptops, far superior build quality compared to the crap they put out today. Cheap and durable, if a little outdated in specs. TLP is a popular battery management tool that have specific built integration with thinkpads. I managed to snag a couple thinkpads through FB marketplace pre covid for under 200$ each, my daily driver being a t460 made in 2015. i7 quad core processor, 16gb ram, its weakest link is the Intel onboard GPU. The newer thinkpads let you use thunderbolt 3.0 to plug in an external GPU but there's a trade off between how new a thinkpad is and its build quality. The old ones could be used as body armor plates and probably stop a 50 cal bullet and boot up fine afterwards, the new ones not much
so what i've been doing is finding various models through the generations and researching their cpu's and oddly enough, nearly every one i've put in has had subpar ratings or rankings..... idk if that really matters or not
It depends on what you expect your laptop to do. 8gb ram and a 2.4ghz i5 quad core processor is acceptable for almost any computing task out side of playing heavier load video games or specialty IT stuff like LLMs or cryptomining. If your main concern is video games go with the base model steam deck. Also, when you go check out listing for used think pads you will find they contain wildly different specs even if they are the same series. This is because the companies that bought them new X years ago spend some sweet corporate cash on decking them out with the at-the-time highest end options ordered custom from lenovo, and then they throw them in the literal trash a decade later. Some people who dig them out and resell on facebook don't know a thing about computers and think they are only worth the base options used price.
Intel integrated graphics and CPU are better imho. I have no GUI way of controlling energy saver on AMD while thats there in intel. Like changing the governor and all. Thats not even remotely there on AMD, there are apps but not on Fedora at least yet.
More recommendations mean more people using the hardware. More people using the hardware means more testing. More testing means more people learning and documenting how to fix problems. So in that sense, statements like that actually do become true over time regardless of their truth values at the beginning.
As anecdotal as this may be, out of several machines I owned and installed and reinstalled over the years, AMD centric were always easier to install, while installing Intel based machines from friends and family always got me grinding my teeth out of frustation.
I vouch for AMD based on my history with working it - and I repeat: I am not a tech guru - even without putting linux support on the table. I've ran AMD machines for over a decade, with no hardware problems, while I had Intel based hardware fail me in three or four years.