Linux Sys Admins, do you work on Linux or Windows office laptops?
Linux Sys Admins, do you work on Linux or Windows office laptops?
I'm getting sick every day at this Microsoft Windows slowness and bloat. I am trying to use as much Linux VMs as possible. I feel so unproductive on Windows. I also tried installing Linux on the office laptop. The problem is that Windows is officialy supported and the Linux is DYI. Once the IT departament changes it will sync up with Windows but Linux can be broken and you are no longer able to work. Next job I want to have full Linux laptop or at least Mac.
Besides:
- Microsoft Office
- Active Directory
- Some proxy and VPN bullshit Everything seems manageable and even better on Linux.
What are your experience?
My current company is being absorbed into a much larger company right now, got bought out earlier this year.
I was the only IT for the smaller company, and I was using 100% Linux (Debian with KDE Plasma) on my laptop to administrate everything in our environment, which is mostly Windows.
- Our DC with AD on it, I used Remmina to RDP into it for admin tasks.
- O365 and Azure/Entra stuff was all in the browser.
- Our ERP system is cloud-based, so browser was fine for that too.
- Our access control system was cloud-based and the RFID card reader/writer was plug-n-play on Linux.
- Our company SMB share worked fine with Linux in Plasma using my AD credentials.
- I set up my company OneDrive sync using rclone, it also worked flawlessly.
- Our Fortigate firewall VPN has a native Linux app which, although ugly as sin, works without issue.
- I used OnlyOffice for a while, then switched back to LibreOffice. Both worked basically perfect, a few very minor font bugs, (bullet lists having a slightly different style for the bullets, etc.)
- Teams, I used a wrapper flatpak for a while, which worked fine, then switched to the browser version of Teams. No major issues, I had a bunch of meetings, screen shares, webcam, presentations all on Teams in Linux, pretty seamless.
- Email, Outlook in the browser is fine. I also used Thunderbird for a bit, but didn't like how buggy it was in the Flatpak version, and the Debian package was way too out of date for my taste.
Now that we got bought out, I am being forced off my Linux laptop and onto the new company's Windows laptop, which really sucks. I am planning on quitting soon, as I hate using Windows and I am very underpaid at my current job as it is. Only real perk was not having to report to any IT manager/CTO, and being able to use Linux.
MacOS, nearly everyone who does anything with development or ops is using a MacBook. Though lately more “normal” employees have been getting MacBooks too.
At least they have some kind of choice...
We have some client's engineers who use MacBooks. I'll just say that I'm wary of anyone technical using MacOS at this point.
Though some of our devs use them too, but from what I've seen, they could just as well use Linux.
Wary why? I work remotely in IT and manage a ton of Linux systems with it. Because my company has a large number of remote employees they limit us to Windows or Macs only, and have pretty robust MDM, security, etc. installed on them. Since MacOS is built on top of a unix kernel it’s much more intuitive to manage other unix & linux systems with it.
Personally I haven’t used Windows really since before Windows 10 came out, and as the family tech support department I managed to switch my wife, parents, brother, and mother in-law all to Mac’s years ago as well.
I'm in the lucky position that I always could work with Linux. I was working with people that couldn't be bothered to run Windows on their Desktops (administering mostly Linux Servers anyway). In my first job we had a "Standardized" Fedora desktop that was actually attached to our AD so you could log in at any desktop with your domain user. However we did have internal tools and some software requirement that only were available on Linux meaning everyone in our department had a Windows VM for using those tools (kinda overkill but ok). My last job we didn't have any standard other than the system had to be encrypted and had Eset installed other than that we could set it up he was we liked.
Could I work with a Windows desktop? Sure I'm on the Terminal sshing into systems 98% of the time anyway but at the end of the day I love to simply be on Linux having a workflow I'm used to.
Regarding Office I was just using Office online for anything that needed it.
Getting Linux Systems into AD is possible (but of course requires cooperation on the side of the IT department)
Proxy and VPN should mostly be doable (but of course might not be able to be deployed via Group policies)
I don't use Windows anymore. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those "Linux purists", if other people wanna use Windows, go ahead. But I'm not using it. I swear to god, if it becomes mandatory to use Windows at my company, I'm leaving the next day.
Hah I don't have that privilege but same mindset. It is weird to me that in many companies you were deprived of choice at least. Linux can be worse too but let me just try it and see.
The reason that most companies don't want you to do that is because they don't want people running around installing their own OS and doing whatever they feel like on company devices.
Letting people do that would be an IT and information security nightmare.
It's the same reason that no (sane) company would give local admin privileges to everyone.
The reason why companies generally don't have an official way to use Linux is because it's hard to support two platforms simultaneously. Especially when you have, certificate and/or AD network authentication for wireless and wired like we do. You also need to consider how the two platforms should interact with each other. For example Linux devices should be able to connect to the AD domain with Kerberos and need to be able to access SMB shares and probably other systems.
In short it's more complicated than "just let me try".
Windows 11, and the group policies doesn't allow us to use WSL. We also can't directly SSH into any servers so we have to go trough a Citrix session to a Windows 10 "admin server" and then SSH or RDP to a Linux server. And Windows Terminal isn't installed on the Windows 10 server, so it's either CMD or the Powershell terminal.
It's absolutely fucking miserable. I'm a Linux sysadmin who do a lot of automation (ansible etc) but also Python development. Try it yourselves and see how long you last! I'm jumping the fucking ship in a month though, thank the gods.
All the result of an over confident "security organization", with a lot of hubris.
But the best part? It's a $5000 work laptop, and my 6 year old Thinkpad (with Linux) runs laps around the thing any day of the week. Opening the file explorer takes, most of the time, 5+ seconds...
Fuck my life, and fuck this company.
I have a fairly new, expensive (not $5000 expensive though) laptop from work. It's quite a high powered laptop. It's full of administration crap that constantly runs in the background using 8 GB of RAM and at least 20% of the CPU, nonstop. Daily I run out of RAM and it freezes. I have a 15 year old laptop that, without exaggeration, is faster to use and can run more programs without running out of RAM.
But the best part? It's a $5000 work laptop, and my 6 year old Thinkpad (with Linux) runs laps around the thing any day of the week. Opening the file explorer takes, most of the time, 5+ seconds...
In my previous job I was doing Java development on e-commerce (Hybris, then renamed to SAP Commerce) and the laptop (a beefy thinkpad) took ages from powering on to being able to work, also Java compilation could take 30 min and just starting up the project on local another 5.
Had the opportunity to install Linux (the policy was that dual boot was required and don’t disturb IT with Linux issues) and oh boy, from turning on to being able to work was incredible fast. Compiling went from 30 to 5 min (with same Java official version from oracle in order to avoid any implementation discrepancies between openjdk and the oracle JDK in prod), and starting tje local server went from have enough time for preparing a coffee to seconds.
Unfortunately my current job only allows Windows and the policies are too strict.
I have several clients with this kind of setup. I'm always baffled at the amount of hoops I have to go through to connect to my Linux server. Sometimes I have to remote desktop to a windows virtual desktop and then use the citrix session to another windows machine VIA BROWSER so I can finally ssh to the machine. Are they trying to bore attackers to death?
LOL
They are trying to bore only your customers, attackers have direct access (=
I nearly threw up reading first paragraph 😂
Oh my that sounds even worse than at my company. I don't understand also why disallow WSL. And yeah I don't think that this is laptop's fault anymore, just has been enshititifacted with software bloat.
I am a Windows admin but two of my colleagues who are Linux admins use Linux machines that are running Ubuntu+a few internal tweaks to make it better fit us. The Linux platform is developed primarily by one of the developers at the company and some others (primarily developers) also use Linux. The vast majority of the company uses Windows.
There are also a few hundred Macs.
I have been considering getting our flavour of Linux installed on a VM or maybe even dual booting for testing.
I got my IT department to allow me to use WSL2, because I have to clone and patch the Linux kernel for our embedded linux device.
😁now I can install stuff, for which I otherwise would have need windows admin privileges, into WSL2, like steam (just for the fun of playing a windows game over proton on a ubuntu install on WSL2 which is just linux hyper-v emulation on windows -> games run very bad and seem do not use the nvidia card in the laptop 🤭)
So my setup is for work windows running WSL if needed, at home, I have a macbookpro11,3 dual boot BigSur and up to date endeavourOS(Arch+KDE) as allrounder devices, a game PC running endeavourOS(Arch+KDE) (NVIDIA 970), a raspberry Pi W2 running my homebridge, an iPad pro for easy webapps (configure *arr services) and streaming. Other not so much PC coputing devices available are PostmarkedOS pine phone, TvOS running Atv, various game consoles with most CFW installed, and many iPhones (collected over time, self bought is only iPhone 4s, 5, 6, X and 12mini)
So, I use them all big OSs 🤔 well, not really android anywhere.. 😁 I just recognised that my router is BSD based (OpnSense)
What are your experience?
My last "real" Windows experience was with WinXP and every time I have to touch Windows at the PC of a customer, which happens sometimes when the stars align, I feel like the first human that ever walked the earth.
I have no idea how people get any work done on a system that is constantly nagging for attention, popups, restrictive Enterprise environment and non descriptive error messages. Nothing in this world seems to make sense or is presented in a unified way. Every dialogue or sub system seems to be it's own isle stemming from another decade of tech. The experience for someone who is simply not used to Windows any more due to missing exposure is horrible.
Heck a Mac feels alien to me too but in the end that's still a system I could deal with given some time.
Mebbe I'm spoiled by stuff like systemd, PipeWire, Wayland, btrfs and all that candy we get nowadays on a Linux desktop. I'm not even talking about privacy or FOSS principles at this point. Just the fact that the system doesn't get in my face with ads or AI or "very important reboots" seems to be a revelation in 2024.
That was me 2 years ago. Now, I am wondering how I got the work done until now on Win11. It just takes longer and compensation for overtime helps. And by compensation I don't mean money; I get my time back, working less on other days.
I will ask for a 4 day workweek. Every day without Windows is a good day. (:
Mixed environment, bunch of windows servers and a bunch of Linux servers. I currently run NixOS on my company owned Framework laptop, with the caveat that I have to deal with or work around any weirdness that comes up.
I've been wanting for a while now to fix up my config (weird sleep waking issues, broken hibernate, implement full disk encryption) or maybe switch to Fedora. Just haven't had the time.
Remmina is great for RDP, OnlyOffice preserves Microsoft office formatting well, KDE's network manager has working VPN connections for Cisco and Palo Alto, and I do a lot from the browser (email, O365 admin,etc).
There is friction, though. As mentioned the sleep issues. Never fun getting to a site and finding a hot, dead laptop in my bag because it decided to wake up and not go back to sleep.
For things that HAVE to be done in Windows I have a VM I haven't powered on in a months or two, and a "tech" server to rdp to with more network access.
I'd also like to get more familiar with Nix. I can handle system settings and packages from the Nix repositories, but packaging my own software is something I'd like to learn (software and printer drivers for Ubuntu/fedora, etc).
the sleep issues.
Ah, the life of a sysadmin
Ive just started in a government IT role; everything is windows, I use windows myself at home for games, but run WSL for hobby dev, home server management and stuff like that.
This is my first sysadmin role, having come from a Dev background, and administration on windows feels like such a chore. Everything takes ten steps to do, lots of issues, and feels very counter intuitive. I am not enjoying it at all. I suppose actual large scale Linux adminning probably has the same issues and I'm putting it down to lack of experience, but there's so many small niggly issues that I know I could solve if this was a Linux environment that I can't due to how windows is set up.
I'm hopefully getting to move into a more hybrid dev/admin role for some web stuff, but I firs thave to convince my boss to let me install WSL so O can have a sane dev environment for web dev.
Sounds like you need to familiarise yourself with PowerShell and Group Policy.
What cruelty is this, to not allow devs to use WSL?!
When I got into the company I was allowed to use Linux. But a few years ago the company was bought and merged with a much bigger company and the new IT policy made Windows mandatory.
I'm sorry for your loss.
Software dev here. The only Linux I ever hear of at my job is Open shift. That's about it. We are neck deep into windows. And honestly, I don't care. It's a job and my bills are paid. My house is full of Linux, and I don't care what a big corporation wants to use for their software.
This mind set has it's limit when you need to get something done, see your family after 8h of work and don't log overtime for some stupid windows s****.
But, yes, in most cases I just log additional unproductive time in my timesheet. It would suck, if I couldn't compansate the overtime and leave work earlier on Fridays or so. Management has to live with the fact that working with Windows is not as efficient.
Right. But what can you do if your job has absolutely no interest in Linux? Force them? I've talked to some leads and managers and they laughed at the idea of using Linux. They just don't need it for whatever they do. And 100% of our backend is SQL and C#. And you know how much they drool over visual studio and all those MS products.
MacOS. Systems doesn’t want to support Linux, and the only other option is windows 11. A few of my coworkers have Win11 with WSL and fight it every single day. They’re diehard windows people who have been seriously considering moving to MacOS for their next round of upgrades.
Same here. I really really tried with WSL but the experience is miserable.
Swapped to MacOS and like night and day. I'd be perfectly happy with a £300 linux laptop though.
Also Mac here. I started with a linux laptop but still have to do some desktop support work for the company and since they all use Mac it's just easier to dogfood it. At least I have a decent terminal emulator.
Try this terminal emulator then https://github.com/gnachman/iTerm2
I think I'm also in this group right now. Just not Windows...
After using WSL for 6 years to do 99% of my work, our IT finally started to support Linux, so I re-imaged my notebook immediately. It's not perfect and we do have some mandatory security and backup solutions that slow things down a bit, but the good news is that they allow us to re-nice them, so it's not that big of a deal. The biggest challenge is Libre Office versus MS Office, because things don't always convert the formatting correctly, but it's still worth the hasle to avoid Windows PITA issues.
Right now I'm stuck on a Mac laptop. I hate it, but after our Network team could not manage to get Global Protect working on Linux, and my boss decided keeping them happy was easier than keeping me productive, I didn't have much choice (Mac or Windows). I've worked in environments before where I was able to run Linux on my laptop/workstation, so long as I was able to support myself and do the required work. I used remote desktop (Or a Windows VM) for my Windows work; my browser and Java for most everything else. Now even Office is a shitty webapp for the most part, and Teams "works" on Linux (As much as Teams works at all).
Even here, I have to wait until Helpdesk manages to build out support for new Mac OS releases, so I'm still on 14.6.
I told them prior that I would be leaving the company if they forced me to migrate to Mac. I'm currently looking for a better position elsewhere and will tell them exactly why when I turn in my notice. Not that it will change anything, it'll help me feel better.
that's odd, my (indirect, reported by others) experience with GlobalProtect on Linux was mostly fine, although when using SAML it only really works with the GUI version and not the CLI version
It's not GP itself that's he problem, it's supposed to work on a few mainstream distris, but the Company admins responsible noped out. They had such a hard time making Windows and Mac work that they can't be bothered for "a couple of Linux users".
i use a linux laptop; but then they got bought out and our new overlords won't let me get another one.
i've had it for 5 years now since i didn't want switch to mac during the last 2 refresh periods; but it's only a matter of time before it dies.
i think i'll just switch jobs when it does. lol
Mac is still better evil than Windows but same thinking.
I have tried using my pc as a hackintosh for the heck of it (it was surprisingly easy) it feels bad like everytime you have a untrusted app you need to allow it in settings and even windows 11 feels better. But this is just my opinion maybe mac os has changed and is better now.
i've had macbooks for work before and they work okay like windows does; but i think i'll end up with windows since i do 99% of my work in a terminal emulator with keyboard mapping customizations and re-mapping the keyboard in mac takes weeks/months of trial and error to get it right since it requires me to shift all of the other keys & their shortcuts around to get it work like it does in linux.
i've also used wsl in windows for work before too and that worked better for me since i didn't do anything extra besides copy/paste of my keyboard map. also: since i only use the laptop for work, i don't care about microsoft being evil; i'll let the infosec guys handle that.
Wdym with linux can be broken?
Don't mess woth the system and go atomic. Fedora atomic kde or gnome or wm
Wdym with linux can be broken?
Linux mint kept harassing me to install the official drivers for my wireless card, so I did. It broke my ability to use WiFi.
I told Linux while in presentation mode I did not want the screen to sleep, it took that as sleep after 5 minutes.
Every time the laptop sleeps/restarts my screen resolution is borked, half the time the correct resolutions are not available and I have to disconnect all my monitors, restart, then connect the monitors.
Most solutions I hear are use a different distro, learn command line, you should not be using Linux if you cannot fix this stuff.
That is what i mean when I say Linux can be broken.
If you're on Mint still, that's X11 fucking you over. AFAIK, Mint hasn't moved to Wayland, though you might be able to install an experimental session, but I wouldn't trust it like a distro that's all-in on Wayland.
I used to contend with monitors jumping around like a jack russell terrier with X11, never keeping settings, dropping out due to ACPI. Wayland has fixed pretty much everything I had going wrong with that stuff.
Boot a live USB of some distros that default to Wayland like Fedora, and see how it reacts to screensaving, then make some choices from there.
Fedora atomic or not is nice.
I got tired of manually installing Arch and was pleased with Fedora the most.
Changes from the upstream can make your system nonfunctional. For example VPN for remote connection. They change something, push to Windows but on Linux you need to figure it out by yourself.
Yes, I use Fedora and love to break the permissions of shared Office-Documents. /s
The only thing I have learned is not to go too deep into customisation. Because people watching me using hyprland are some kind of disgusted.
I just use KDE with dark breeze theme. That's enough and nobody gets hurt.
Can you elaborate? Why are people disgusted by Hyprland?
"Disgusted" was a fast choice for wording. They look confused. Someone told me he get a headache by the fast movings through the workspaces.
For explanation I use 3 or 4 workspaces with full max. Windows and switch through them with super + tab. And had this wiggle animation running, too. As an user it is really fancy but if you are watching, it could hurt.
Trueee Just get the job done and that's all.
My work laptop is windows sadly. It has to run a bunch of endpoint sec stuff. I get it, but still sucks. On occasion I do dual boot (separate drive) when some update breaks something and I have to have a PC to fix something asap.
Not a sysadmin, but a programmer. My work machines have been:
- 2003-2008 Windows 7
- 2008-2011 Ubuntu
- 2011-2019 Arch
- 2019-2024 NixOS
Probably going to keep using NixOS. This is a very cool OS.
Previous job: Windows, because it was a company issued laptop. Plus a lot of the company was built around the MS ecosystem.
Current job: Linux, because I got to keep the perfectly decent Dell laptop when I left. I wanted to make sure I purged everything, so it's running LMDE now. Plus, there's not much outlook and teams stuff that I have to use.
Great! However I think you are lucky one.
I'd use Linux for homelab if there was native Fusion, since I need that for school.
I manage the few linux servers at my company. I use a windows laptop to ssh to my servers. Windows for me is fine, but I do very little on it outside of ssh or emails. However, I would never use windows outside of this.
I'm currently more of an generic sysadmin than linux admin, as I do both. But the 'other stuff' at work runs around teams, office, outlook and things like that, so I'm running a win11 with WSL and it's good enough for what I need from a workstation. There's technically a policy in place that only windows workstations are supported, but I suppose I could run linux (and I have separate laptop for linux-only stuff). At the current environment it's just not worth the hassle, spesifically since I need to maintain windows servers too.
So, I have my terminals, firefox and whatever I need and I also have the mandated office-suite, malware protection/IDR/IDS by the book and in my mindset I'm using company tools for company jobs. If they take longer, could be more efficient or whatever, it's not my problem. I'll just browse my (personal) cellphone while the throbber spins on the screen and I get paid to do that.
If I switched to linux I'd need to personally take care of my system to meet specs and I wouldn't have any kind of helpdesk available should I ever need one. So it's just simpler to stick with what the company provides and if it's slow then it's not my headache and I've accepted that mindset.
Hmm that is also a nice a way to put it. However when you are slowed you can be demanded more productivity even though you cannot do anything about it. Maybe except unpaid overtime. Do you have anything for this?
I live in Europe. No unpaid overtime here and productivity requirements are reasonable, so no way to blame for my tools on that. And even if my laptop OS broke itself completely then I'm productive at reinstallation, as keeping my tools in a running shape is also on my job description. So, as long as I'm not just scratching my balls and scrolling instagram reels all day long that's not a concern.
I use office 360 in the browser.
I'm not a typical sysadmin but I use linux anyway. Somehow I always found some workarounds, but I am also not the only one using Linux in our company so the IT needs to work with us to some degree.Haha nice. I heard that office 365 is okay but for let's say 10000 rows Excel it lacks performance.
For 10k rows you should probably use a real database anyway ;)
Most of our sysads use macOS. A few use linux but they have limited choices with distros and can only use fedora I think.
Maybe Ubunto too. Sometimes they allow you to use Linux as sys admin.
Right, but the distros employees are allowed to use are dictated by corporate IT so they are able to control them and have the required endpoint security tools. So people who prefer linux have very limited options.
Using linux hardware, pretty much one of the requirements for my job, otherwise I look elsewhere. For RDP the only downside being wayland not working with it, so you have to stay with X11.
Sometimes you can't afford to be picky but with more skills and experience I want it too. And yeah for now X11 is just better supported than Wayland.
I use freerdp with Wayland, works OK.
Most tech people actually use macs, because corporations prefer them for their tech employees, while the normal employees usually use Windows. Very few corps support linux on the desktop for their admins -- even if their infrastructure is all on linux.
Meanwhile folks I work with Linux is basically seen as a must (if not specifically NixOS). You are on your own if you want to use OSs that don’t work well with Nix since there is too much value in immutable builds to warrant supporting your proprietary setup. Most ended up switching to or getting a second laptop for Linux.
I used to have a Linux laptop at work. I was even allowed to install my chosen distro. Then the IT department said "we don't really know Puppet or how to manage Linux, but we know JAMF, so you're all getting Macs now."
My job satisfaction has gone down since then. However, in more positive news, they did end up giving away the old Linux laptops to the employees when they moved office.
You wish. Most tech companies will get you the cheapest laptop they can get away with.
I remember being denied a 64bit laptop when developing a 64bit only application lol.
Any source on that mac claim? I've not seen any proof of that at all.
(Edit: To clarify, I know people are saying they use MacOS here, but I don't think the claim that most tech people in corporate settings use MacOS to be true. I only have my personal experience in a very large corporate environment, and am asking for information as every team I've worked with was using Windows.)
I used to live in the bay area. Know lots of people in tech companies. Most are on macs.
I am a software developer and work on Kubernetes based project.
I was given a Mac laptop when I joined. It was a few OS releases behind, because corporate IT didn’t support newer versions.
Macs have to run some sort of VM to do docker based development.
VMs are not that great.
When time came, I requested a Windows laptop. I installed Debian on WSL 2. Then got it to run systemd properly and installed Docker on WSL. Then vscode on windows host with remote ssh into WSL.
Vscode ssh integration is probably best least known feature of vscode. However, initial connection setup always requires tweaking to get that best experience.
By the way, official docker setup is through VM on windows. WSL is not a recommended route, but one can get it working.
This setup beats Mac any day for me.
I wish I could run Linux on work laptop, but corporate IT doesn’t know how to deal with it.
Shame but understandable.
Run linux in a vm on your latop and use that for 99% of your work.
I use a Windows laptop because that's what is supported by our infrastructure, our endpoint protection and our cybersecurity insurance.
Also, to help test changes before they are rolled out to users.Understandable.
everyday
every day
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I used a linux desktop in 1995 or so. Never since. Even when I was working with the company building unix and linux - to be clear, building and selling AT&T Unix and a Linux distro - our standard kit was windows. It was less hassle as winamp, vanDyke and Mozilla ran better as-is.
I haven't used a linux desktop in 30 years of linux. Maybe this year?