I don't know about you, but if I must leak my private data like a sieve to use the internet, I'd much rather that data go to a government that isn't governing me!
Problems with this app go beyond just privacy and bleed into national security.
You as a citizen of your country have an obligation to not freely offer yourself up as an attack vector for cybercriminals all so you could fry your brain with garbage media.
Here's Bernie Sanders from a year ago talking about how a handful of companies control the news people see, read, and hear. TL:DR - He makes the argument that it's not fake news, that journalists are usually hard-working and honest. He says the problem is the limitation of allowed discussion - what topics make it to the consumer. He says for instance that he's never asked about wealth and income inequality.
I believe TikTok is being banned because as it stands now it brings topics outside the limits of allowed discussion to a lot of eyes in ways US government/companies haven't proven able to control. If the issues justifying a potential ban were truly data security or mental health as some argue (not without merit mind you), then the legislation to address those issues would look a lot different and include companies like Meta, Google, Instagram, etc. Those are valid concerns but the new measure is clearly not designed around them.
Finally, we've seen how Trump can tie up the courts for months on end even after all his self-snitching. Thus I very much doubt we'll see any actual action in the 9 months + 3 months grace period laid out for the resolution of the TikTok matter. There are too many constitutional and business law challenges in my (admittedly layman's) reading of expert opinion.
I believe TikTok is being banned because as it stands now it brings topics outside the limits of allowed discussion to a lot of eyes in ways US government/companies haven't proven able to control
I mean, if this were true, that would mean you wouldn't be able to find similar content on Western platforms. Are you really saying similar content isn't readily available on YouTube? If so, what content?
That's a solid criticism and I upvoted. I hadn't thought about YouTube. Anecdotally I've had factual comments about how many kids are killed, what Israeli politicians say, etc. auto-moderated into oblivion on YouTube. But at the same time I get a lot of the facts I use from YouTube (basically never been on TikTok) so it holds water. I also get a lot of info from other sources, but I can't think of something specific I'd get from them that I could never find on YouTube.
In my defense, I'm basing my opinion on why TikTok is particularly targeted on interviews like this one with Ted Cruz. He talks about how TikTok is specifically designed to push messages that are harmful to America, including what he calls pro-Hamas content but I suspect is actually anti-Israeli policy, pro-Palestine content. That is why I would argue there's some evidence of a campaign against TikTok in particular that might skip over YouTube or other major platforms. Perhaps the Western powers feel that YouTube is still acceptably moderated towards their interests whereas TikTok isn't. Perhaps Google is just too influential domestically.
Edit: I found a video I was looking for: Biden talking about passing the TikTok/Israel funding/Ukraine funding package. A bit of language he uses that I think is telling is "it continues America’s leadership in the world and everyone knows it" which could signal US dominance as a motivation and thus TikTok as a target and not US companies.
That doesn't mean your point isn't worth discussion, or that my points aren't opinion. I'm interested to see how it develops. I've based my opinion on the conversations I can find and language used, but I'm open to adjusting my view if evidence prompts that.
For one the YouTube algorithm is absolute dog shit compared to TT, which is literally the gold standard at this point.
If you haven't tried, you're seriously missing out. It's legit incredible how good it is. I hardly use it because I prefer long-form content (and don't honestly have much time) but I absolutely can respect what they created
Western SM is already in the pocket of the state and any content that goes against their values is suppressed.
Pro-Palestinian content on Tiktok can easily get traction and receive over hundreds of thousands, if not millions of views.
Considering that younger people are not watching regular media news, channels like fox just do not have comparative reach and they aren't buying into the zionist propaganda like previous generations.
There are a lot of content creators who are articulate, succinct and organisation has come out of it. People have created sites & apps that list all corporations and products to boycott because of their support for Israel and it's had an impact.
Sure, TTs algorithm can easily push you down unpleasant rabbit holes but that's the nature of algorithms, not just specific to TT.
So there might be similar content on western SM but it's being held down and isn't showing on people feed 'organically'.
Kinda like the not-so-unsupported conspiracy theory that musk bought Twitter to silence protest coordination. That Twitter was too useful to the 'masses' and the "sinister cabal" (not my words) said it needed to be taken out.
To reiterate: this is not my position but it is one I've heard that matches the sentiment expressed in the parent comment
What we certainly do know is that Musk bought twitter not to enable free speech, but to control speech according to his personal whims and beliefs.
I imagine the Saudi's went in with Musk on the twitter deal to also control and dilute unfavorable speech. The Saudi ruler is the guy that assassinated journalist Jamal Khashoggi on foreign soil because he wasn't exactly a team Saudi ruler kind of guy.
I 100% admit that my take on the TikTok ban is opinion based on the hearings and arguments + the scope of the bill, so you aren't being unfair. I have never heard that about the Twitter purchase - I had read it was a poor decision Musk made only half-seriously and then was basically forced to follow through with.
TikTok is being banned for a bunch of different reasons all added together.
Republicans agreed to it, among the other reasons, because Democrats will get the blame for it and it will hurt Biden at the election.
Republicans and Democrats supported its ban because of sinophobia. It's a big, successful business in America, there's scaremongering around what data it's collecting or ways it could be used to manipulate people's opinions—ByteDance did not do itself any favours by coming out and telling all its American users to tell their Congresspeople to vote against this, which was spun as a demonstration of that power.
They also support the ban as part of an ongoing backlash against "big tech". Republicans are angry at big tech because they think it's too liberal. Democrats are angry at it for being addictive, abusing monopolistic powers, and other quite legitimate issues. The problem is that neither party is very good at actually dealing with the problem, so they just lash out wildly at whatever comes along that looks vaguely tech. Not realising that in this case, that will give way more power to Meta and Alphabet.
He is wrong though. When the war machine gets going we 100% have fake news. And the Journalists do not matter just look at New York Times massive Zionist propaganda takeover.
Anyone who has spent any amount of time on TikTok knows this is true. The narrative is beyond their control there, lots of eyes see. That terrifies them.
The Chinese government has also dismissed such concerns as paranoia and has warned that a TikTok ban would "inevitably come back to bite the US".
The fundamental ethos of the US and its propaganda of why it's the greatest country on the planet is the first amendment and the current bunch are absolutely destroying that illusion in plain sight of younger generations.
They're sending billions for wars and to Israel supporting and assisting them in genocide yet are saying to the ones they expect to pay for it that there's no money for healthcare, infrastructure, education, welfare, raising minimum wage, etc, etc, et al, and then still demanding they should receive their votes "because the other guys much worse".
I see a lot of younger people saying that both are shit, that the system is rigged and they ain't playing their game anymore. That is tantamount to revolution.
Funny how you concerned citizens always seem to mention Israel without also mentioning supporting Ukraine. Almost like it’s not on your talking points list.
If you don’t see an issue with a hostile nation state directly controlling something that is consumed by so many Americans, you’re not looking at it properly.
The Chinese government has also dismissed such concerns as paranoia and has warned that a TikTok ban would "inevitably come back to bite the US".
If instead of getting anything they are opting to get $0, that actually confirms the "paranoia".
The fact that the two countries that are most accused of spreading disinformation (including using Western's own social media) not only provide their own alternatives, but also bans Western social media shows that West wasn't paranoid enough.
Yes. This has been ongoing since TikTok acquired musical.ly. The CFIUS didn’t care as much until it became popular. TikTok has tried to comply, so why isn’t the CFIUS and there considerations being heeded?
This move against TikTok predates the Hamas attacks and Israel's military action. It's insane that TikTok's ban is because teens are more likely to be pro-palestine.
It does. But there are mechanisms within CFIUS that TikTok was working through. Trump and Congress decided to circumvent CFIUS and go after TikTok, which is their right, but why?
So CFIUS would be a good process that would be short of a ban. You know, they could look at the app. They could decide whether or not there are other things that the company could do. But I think Congress has basically gone and kind of short-circuited that process and said, no, we're not going to have the Committee on Foreign Investment look at this. We're not going to have other processes look at it. We're just going to make a decision as the Congress that this app needs to be sold in a short time, or it will be banned.
And so why is it that we'll still be able to access apps like the clothing company Shein in in the U.S. - that's also Chinese owned - Temu, which sells all sorts of stuff - clothing and housing goods? These apps are also Chinese owned and are on a lot of American phones. source
It’s because of TikTok’s popularity and influence.
This is the same conclusion Second Thought came to a while back in one of his youtube videos. While I don't disagree with the conclusion, I also wouldn't say it's mutually exclusive to reasoning promoted by the mainstream media of "foreign influence. " What's really wild is the idea that the ban is also being pushed by "foreign influence."
Plausible deniability, 2 birds with 1 stone. There are hundreds of companies with foreign investors and influence. TikTok has tried to work with investigators and even spent $1.5 billion on a server framework for Project Texas. If TikTok was a crappy app and wasn’t the primary source of news for young adults, the government wouldn’t care.
I feel like this ban WILL start a monopoly. Since Facebook does the same amount or more data mining than TikTok, Facebook will have to be banned alongside Instagram, making YouTube Shorts a monopoly, as there really isn't any other alternatives that are relevant.
Or use it as a Progressive Web App. This could be a good thing for awareness of PWAs and for them being seen as a killer feature that people won't buy a smartphone unless they support them well. A transition away from app stores to PWAs can only be good.
If they are doing TikTok, maybe they should do Facebook, Reddit and YouTube next.
This makes sense as there still billions of other potential users around the world. Add to that the fact that other nations like content of their own cultures in their own languages. It means even if they will feel the change the platform won't collapse because it is missing US users. Now If other countries follow in the US footsteps then it becomes a different story.
If you as a content creator have a choice between a platform with 3 billion people (US and India included), like Shorts and Instagram Reels, and one without (TikTok), where would you post?
This is a clear disadvantage given to tiktok only to protect its own companies cause if US actually cared about data and mental health, homegrown Tech companies would also face repercussions.
LETS NOT FORGET, China can VERY EASILY buy most of the data it needs from the open market which many US companies, including Big Tech contribute to.
This has done nothing for citizens. Only protected innovation less US companies.
Still think it's a baited headline given their stated intention to go to court to fight the "unconstitutional ruling". I'm not so sure the constitution gives foreign companies many legal rights so in that regard they'd perhaps be more protected if they were an American company. Whoops.
TikTok's 80% of investors who aren't ByteDance won't pass up billions of dollars in cash either if the alternative is that they forever get zero from the American market.
They've been investing heavily in the US market for the last couple years too, so I doubt they are in the black.
They've just all around played politics the American way very poorly. I can't really comment on whether that's good or bad but I'm blown away this Shou Chew CEO dude still has a job after this came down.
A thing never mentioned in these debates is that noone in the world is buying tiktok without buying the underlying algorithm, the same algorithm the app runs on worldwide, the algorithm is the special sauce. They are not going to sell the basis for their app just for a single payday in the US market, which after buying it, they could rebrand and then once successful in the US, compete in the global market against tiktok but with the income of the most lucrative app market in the world behind them. It’s an extremely stupid business move.
They're probably going to find themselves having to explain what it means that a social media platform is itself engaged in speech, instead of functioning as a platform for others to speak. TikTok users, whose voices are allegedly curtailed by the ban, aren't exactly prevented from going to another platform.
If they say that it's Tiktok's speech that's curtailed, they're going to have to explain carefully how they're not a foreign influence operation.
The language of the first amendment is pretty stark, but the courts have always understood it has various limits.
Admittedly, I don't know the details, so I'll concede readily if someone has something to say I'm flat out wrong, but TikTok is on fire with lawyers posting their legal analysis of the situation, and the overwhelming concensus that a couple years ago, a series of laws were passed that would make it illegal for a US company to purchase a Chinese algorithm.
The company, the branding, yes.
Specifically the algorithm, no.
Paranoid people who don't know how to open a PDF passed laws that make that nearly, if not entirely, impossible.
Or so a bunch of lawyers that have side TikTok gigs say.
They are anticipating that being a core argument when TikTok US sues the federal government.