This article suggests 60/60 came from the Sumerians who used a base-12 counting system. This and other articles note that 60 is more flexible than 100 in many ways as it’s divisible by 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6.
The Babylonians invented the 360 degree circle, and so understood the sun to move about 1 degree per day.
The number of days in a week and weeks in a month is based on lunar phases (month=moon, and in Chinese the word for month is the same as moon, 月). This article says the approximately 28 day month is traced to ancient Mesopotamia with leap days used to stay consistent in the long run. As for days of the week that article also says they were based on the 7 non-fixed heavenly bodies visible to the naked eye.
Time measurements like heat, mass, length etc are arbitrary units. It is just that they are the oldest.
The Sumerians gave us our time standards and they loved base 12. So twelve hours in the day and 60 (5x12) minutes in the hour. Also 12 months in a year and 360 degrees in a circle.
The French actually tried to implement decimal time after the revolution but reverted back after 6 years or so.
The only metric unit of time is the second. all the other ones are customary units that are geared towards living on Planet Earth. There was a movement for decimal time at one point, but it never really took off. Given that the length of a day changes, I don't see how it would remain stable either. Which is something that SI units try very hard to make sure doesn't happen.
12 hours in half a day is fine for me. 12 can be divided into halves, thirds, quarters and sixths. That's useful for planning out a day. Time is one of the applications where I don't have a complaint about using base 12.
Calendar used in DPRK, basically normal gregorian but the dates are counted from 1912 as Juche era, in a combination of european system and partially Korean system.
Because there's 365 days in a year (duh). I mean, if it were, like, 200, then a year would be 0.7 season cycles?
Same for a day. If we set it to, say, 10000 minutes or whatever, noon could very well end up as the middle of the night eventually.
As for the minute and hour, how else would you fit seconds into a day? 24*60 square rooted for equal units? So we have 120 new minutes each 120 seconds long? I mean, I could see that sort of working? But it's still pretty weird, and not a true decimal. So I guess you'd have to rework seconds also.
Edit: months are based off the moon, and there would be no way to somehow make units of 10 months fit into a year, which literally cannot be anything other than 365 days, unless you want your afternoon tea parties 0.12 daylengths past midnight.
Well, the time for eath rotation isnt a constant, it will slowly decelerate and days will be longer.
Using multiples of 10 for time was considered, but was a shitty option compared to the current deal. Months should all be 30 days and then have a free week at the end of the year tho, egyptian style.
they were, in ancient egypt. They were supposed to be dangerous days, because religion wanted to keep control of the people on the days they werent tied to the regular schedule, by scaring them.
Revolutionary France had decimal time for a while, but it was not popular. People liked 24 hour days and 3600 second hours
The days in a year are the actual time it takes to orbit the Sun, but that hasn't stopped people. For financial purposes there's the ISO 8601 calendar where years have 52 or 53 weeks. There are the symmetry calendars which have even quarter years and same size months (for example, each quarter is made of a 4 week month, a five week month, another four week month) with every 6 or 5 years having a leap week
But there are so many clocks that would be obsoleted by a change to time.
The most convincing argument for imperial linear measure is the good size of the inch and foot, but millimetres are fine, so the loss of those friendly sizes doesn't hurt
The hour is a comfortable size, a metric day would have a ten or hundred hour day, hours wouldn't be anything like the eight for work, eight for sleep, and eight for shitposting
Working in seconds isn't a good workaround
We would definitely be fucked over in any recalculation of how many metric hours we should spend working
The past changes to week lengths were particularly disliked by the religious people who believe the weeks have been running Monday to Sunday (or Sunday to Saturday) from the beginning of time
And again we have a status quo of two sevenths of a week being for recreation, if we had a ten day week three day weekends would be longer than our current, but would have seven continuous work days
Well, first off, we'd need to come up with something better.
Just off the top of my head, let's say we use days as our main unit of time and then something like centi- and milli-days (and portions of milli-days) for shorter units. A centi-day is about 14 and a half minutes. A milli-day is 86.4 seconds.
But, then, so many of our other units are defined in terms of seconds. If we abandoned seconds, we'd have to come up with new units for energy, power, and any other units which are defined in terms of seconds.
So, in order to abandon seconds, we'd have to throw away the rest of the metric system and start over.
And, I suppose that's something we could do, but is it worth it?
And even if we did all that work, that wouldn't fix the fact that the time it takes to orbit the sun isn't a multiple of the amount of time a it takes the planet to revolve around its axis.
That said, there are definitely improvements we could make without wrecking the whole metric system. Daylight saving's time is ridiculously unpopular and you'd think we'd've gotten rid of it by now. I also think getting rid of time zones would be beneficial. Perhaps making all but one month the same length.
They are. The second is the only unit of time in the metric system. All of the regular SI prefixes apply. They just don't fit the earth day perfectly, and nothing will, nor should they. Being earth centric is not good science.
There are benefits to numbers other than powers of 10 that decimal doesn't really give us.
A lot of measurements we deal with are based on 12 (hours on a 12-hour clock, months in the year, inches in a foot), 24 (hours in a day), 60 (minutes in an hour, seconds in a minute), 360 (Degrees in a full circle, seconds in an hour, and at one point, the number of days in a year, before we started to realize that after enough years passed, the month you used to think of as winter started being warmer.)
And one thing all of those have in common is divisibility by 3.
1000 is divisible by 2 and by 5, but not by any other prime number.
12 is divisible by 2 and 3, and all the other examples I gave above are multiples of 12, so they're also divisible.
Dealing with half of something is pretty straightforward. Dealing with a third of something, also not difficult to visualize. But a fifth of something requires a little more cognitive load. (Think about trying to evenly divide a pie in 3rds vs in 5ths.) Even a 6th is probably easier to deal with than a 5th, and that's largely because it 6's prime factors are smaller than 5.
With the metric system, everything's divisible by 2 and 5. 100's prime factors are 2, 2, 5, and 5. 1000's are 2, 2, 2, 5, 5, and 5. A third of a metre is approximately (but not exactly) 333.33 millimeters. A third of a foot is exactly 4 inches. The metric system also doesn't make it easy to evenly divide by 6.
We could make a whole system of measurements based on powers of 12, I suppose. But our dominant number system has been based on powers of 10 for a long time.
Maybe even better would be to use powers of 30 because it's divisible by 2, 3, and, 5 (and 6). But it's not evenly divisible by 4! So maybe one based on 60 which is divisible by 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6.
Well, now we've ended up with a big part of the reason why there are 60 seconds in a minute and 60 minutes in an hour. In fact, historically, there were cultures which used base 60 as their number system. For instance Babylonian mathematics.
Maybe the really best way to go about fixing our various ways of measuring things is to abandon base 10 in favor of base 60 and then invent a "sexagesimal metric" system.
The main reason is because we use natural cycles that are important for civic and agricultural reasons as the basis of our measurements. And those cycles are unrelated phenomena that don't match with each other well.
Day and year are based (duh) on two solar cycles (Earth's rotation and translation), while the month and week are based on the lunar cycle of translation around the earth in roughly 28 days. When people tried to force lunar and solar calendars to fit, we ended up with the inconsistent months we have.
The 12/60 base divisions of the day were chosen before we had good calculators. Numbers with many divisors like 12 and 60 help a lot with mental math when you don't have calculators.
There have been proposals of better calendars. The French tried something during the revolution and other people as well. The French republican calendar was:
1 hour = 100 minutes
1 day = 10 hours
1 week = 10 days
1 month = 3 weeks
1 year = 12 months + 5 monthless holiday
Another idea is the Cotsworth Plan:
1 minute = 100 seconds
1 hour = 100 minutes
1 day = 10 hours
1 week = 7 days
1 month = 4 weeks
1 year = 13 months + 1 special monthless holiday
I like the French Republican Calendar, but I would change it to months with 6 weeks of 5 days instead. And divide the week into 3 work days, 2 weekends. But the Cotsworth Plan is a better compromise between lunar and solar cycles.
Neither are good decimal systems. But in the end, if we want to use both the year and the day we're fucked. There's no way of having a fully decimal system. The year is approximately 365.25 days, and 365 is an awkward number. It's only divisible by 5 and 73, so it's not possible to have good divisions of it that match adequately a 10 based grid. You could abolish months and just have 73 weeks of 5 days, but I see no advantage.
We could do away with the year and just keep the day. We could do something like
But this system would be totally misaligned with seasons, moon phases, solar cycles, etc. One could argue that those things are not as important for everyday life as they used to be, and that's true. But they're still economically important and you'd have to implement special calendars to keep track of them. It seems something like the Cotsworth or French systems make more economic sense.
Aren't Juche years basically the standard measurement of years in the Gregorian Calendar, except it is equal to current year - 1948 (Creation of DPRK)?
I mean, days of the year is fine as is because that matches seasonal cycles which is important for agriculture and the like. Ofcourse along the equator lunar calenders were historically used because they don't have different seasons but a calender used by everyone keeps things consistent for trade and the agricultural trade is still one of the most important things for humanity so it best remains a solar calendar.
As for time, 60 and 24 and in general multiples of 12 are great units because they can be easily divisible in many ways. This is why they were established as such in the first place, because Babylon had a big thing for what is called "extremely composite numbers" which are basically just a number that has more factors than any previous and equal to all subsequent ones (until the next extremely composite number) and all multiples of 12 (as far as I know) fall into this category. This means that units that are multiples of 12 both easily divide into each other (making it useful for changing between units) and easily divide into many other numbers making it easier to schedule a day as you have nice clean boundaries.
Basically it comes from the roman calendar. Which is based on the sun and the moon cycles.
A year is a full turn around the sun. It takes 365,25 days. So 365 days, and 1 more once every four years.
A month is based on the moon revolution around the earth, which is 29,5 days.
But in the past they weren't as good to measure these times, so they used more approximative calendars that they would fix by adding days to synchronise the calendar on the moon or year. Roman for example had the month always start on a full moon.
For the months, you had then some emperors who wanted their month to get more days. I think the 7 days week comes from Christians, the bible talk about it. 7 days allows 4 weeks in one moon cycle. Roman used 10 days weeks, so 3 weeks in a moon cycle. Both are inaccurate, so there were days added or removed to synchronise regularly.
Julius Caesar basically made the calendar we have now because the old one was a mess. Then, in the XVIth century we got the gregorian calendar, which is almost the same but fix some problem the old one had.
And when you are studying financial mathematics, there 30 days months all around, or not actually each day is counted, or wait it's only work days. For the year you can have 360 days at year, or 365 or sometimes 366. And you need to remember all that shit for tbe exams and never use it again because is the problem for the programmers to solve.
Funnily enough, Asimov novels sometimes feature decimal time clocks.
Revolutionary calendar in the early French revolution was decimal too : 12 months of 3 weeks of 10 days. 5 or 6 days at the end of the year for vacations. And they used decimal time too.
It was wildly unpopular. I think the decimal time was removed after a couple of years. Napoleon removed the decimal time.
I have both on a app on my phone, just for fun. You can easily find apps for that.
Hot take: imperial units are fine for normie stuff (as in, not engineering or math or whatever)
They come in useful sizes! Feet are handier than meters and gallons are better than liters. And unit conversion between feet and miles, pounds and tons, etc. isn't something that ever happens in day-to-day life. It sounds silly to say that a mile is 5280 feet but I'm pretty sure that ratio was decided retroactively for the sake of making the system consistent. As in, no one knows or cares about converting between the two because we already know how long a foot is and how long a mile is. Also no one uses the obscure units like gills and barleycorns.
Feet are handier than meters and gallons are better than liters.
Wrong, youre just used to them. I roughly know what a liter of something weights, usually around a kg. A gallon tho? wtf i would know?
I can easily compare meters of length to my arms or height, but i need more complex divisions for feet
A foot is as long as my forearm and a little longer than a literal foot, unless you've got big feet. An inch is as wide as my thumb which I have used to measure things cuz it's pretty exact. You're right that I don't know how much a gallon is in pounds though. It's like... more than a bag of apples but less than a box of soda
Base ten is trash and a glorious socialist utopia wouldn't use ivory tower measurements that aren't actually useful for performing labor.
A base 12 or 60 system is much more flexible for "small" human scale measurements, with base 10 being a bit more useful for "far distances," for orders of magnitude estimation because of our base10 numbering system, but then going back to a large divisor system for galactic distances. For example a parsec is 648000/pi astronomical units, which isn't metric in anyway shape or form, but is extremely useful for astronomical calculations.
We have a similar system to that today in America. Skilled Tradesmen will use imperial/base 12 systems for manual work. i.e. Construction, carpentry, etc. as the ability to use thirds and quarters of a unit without relying on fractions and having clearly defined lines on a measuring stick that have those thirds/quarters, is more useful then an arbitrary base 10 measurement that only has 2 divisors. The reason america still uses the "standard" system is that it is useful, not because of "boomers" or whatever.
30cm? What significance does 30cm have in the metric system? 30cm doesn't go evenly into 100cm/1M, so why would I ever use 30cm for anything?
For base 12, that's the number of inches in a foot, and the number of feet in a mile is also divisible by 12, additionally 12 is a divisor of 60 which is used for time and surveying degrees etc etc.
12 also evenly goes into quarts per barrel and things like that if you are ever needing to divide up large volumes of wine or beer or water etc.
Divisors and the relationship between between different units is what makes a measurement system useful. Not just numerology.