I'm resigned to friends and family being almost impossible to get off WhatsApp. Despite being Meta it is also quite difficult to enshittify. If they manage it, I might be able start a conversation but until then it has to stay.
For everything else Fediverse related I'm using Matrix as most Lemmy business happens there (Lemmy uses it for secure DMs so it makes sense). I will try and move people across from other chat platforms to Matrix on an ad hoc basis.
Matrix has bridges for every other chat service, so all your friends who refuse to switch don't have to.
with these its more about whos using it
Yeah. Bit hard to switch messenger apps when they don't talk to each other if nobody you're talking to switches with you.
I get that WhatsApp is not a platform to use if you care about your privacy, but WTF is "Delta Chat" and why would I switch to it rather than say Signal?
I agree that Signal is nice, but I think the point here is that Delta Chat is decentralized
So is Matrix and it's way more popular. But recommending anything other than Signal at this point is a waste. Fediverse chat is a more complex conversion for many who are still in the connect via phone number stage for chat. Fediverse is an easier story for other platforms.
As I've understood, Delta chat is based on the IMAP protocol and uses the infrastructure of your email provider. Thus, it uses no own server infrastructure, but has the also the downsides of the protocol and some issues with many email providers.
Wikipedia.de - Delta Chat (no English version available yet)
some issues with many email providers
This turned out to be the deal-breaker for me. GMX kept locking me out of my account because of the DeltaChat messages. They're (of course) full of cyphertext and to email providers this must look a look like spam.
The open-to-abuse nature of email claims yet another victim.
Right, they don't support the advanced login protocols some providers like outlook require. That was a deal breaker, because deltachat was pretty much the last encrypted messaging service which worked in China.
Because delta chat is using an open protocol (email) and you can run your own servers meaning it is decentralized unlike Signal. Also it is actually anonymous unlike Signal, so you don’t need to give anyone your phone number and people can’t find where you live just by knowing your username.
If you use your email, it's anonymous but you have to use your email which is almost never anonymous and has your phone number. Also you sometimes have to "Create an app-specific password" that delta chat will use and gain full access to your email account, which is way worse than signal or any other application. And for some accounts, you have to use your real password, and maybe disable the spam protection.
Am I wrong somewhere or is that a really stupid idea?
Never heard of DeltaChat why not signal??
It's a good one (Signal as well, though). My favorite design decision was to tie it into the email ecosystem, so if anyone tries to block it, they will have to block email, which their business buddies won't be happy about.
Some more here:
Because Signal is not decentralized nor anonymous
Not federated, but definitely anonymous. All Signal messages are E2EE, and Signal can't even access your messages. They literally have a page where they list every time they've been asked by the government to give info, and they can't. https://signal.org/bigbrother/
I've tried a ton, and DeltaChat came close, but there is no edit option for messages, since under the hood, it uses email. The apps on both iPhone and Android also had issues with notifications. I convinced a few family members and friends to use it and then had to convince them again to move to Signal. Lost a few of them in the process.
The point of my story is to say... If you think you'll have a hard time convincing people to get off WhatsApp/Texting, just go to Signal. It is much more mainstream and at least it isn't Facebook.
Frankly it's the first time I hear about Delta chat
Doesn't delta use email under the hood, an insecure protocol?
You're better off using something like Matrix, XMPP, SimpleX or Signal.
Email? So its just encrypted SMS?
Might come down to the metadata, then, like SFTP vs FTPES or GET vs POST.
The protocol doesn’t really matter when you send encrypted messages over it like Delta Chat. Signal is not private nor decentralized and SimpleX doesn’t have encrypted group chats last time I tried
The protocol doesn’t really matter when you send encrypted messages over it like Delta Chat
Maybe. My comment was based off of what i understood from the website
Signal is not private
Could you elaborate on this? haven't heard of this point (is it due to the jurisdiction on a 5 eyes country?)
SimpleX doesn’t have encrypted group chats last time I tried
It actually does now. It's a very solid choice i'd say :)
so I found it interesting and checked it out. the protocol is all well and good but the problem is social. I'm simply not going to send people my delta chat Id and ask them to message me there instead if they have delta chat installed. I had the same problem with session messenger.
when I meet someone irl I'm trading phone numbers. not asking if they have app X installed.
this might be useful for open source projects where you can use ur delta chat id instead of ur email. but it's not something I would use unless it's a requirement to join some community I wanted to.
the problem signal solves by tieing accounts to your phone number is contact discovery. thanks to user IDs you no longer have to share your phone number with people u want to chat with, and can only share your user id
plus signal guarantees the metadata is encrypted. is the same true for delta chat?
SimpleX is the best alternative right now, email is a very bad protocol
Basically it's an Open source Whatsapp, but you use Email, instead of a phone number
So like matrix?
@[email protected] currently I try to get my Employer to the fediverse. He would use TikTok to promote the profession with the help of trainees
You want them to shill to the fewer people here? That sounds bad for both sides.
Well, my only concern is that on the one hand the company is very meticulous about the internal network, but on the other hand messengers such as WhatsApp, etc. are used for internal communication. That doesn't go together. TikTok is just a new addition.
It's clear that Peertube etc. don't have the reach.
there's also session
unfortunately privacy and usability are inversely related. session is private. I loved it. but I had no one to chat with 😃
I had no idea if any of my contacts were on session or not.
