China urges citizens to trade in 'old lithium e-bikes' for newer lead acid electric bikes
China urges citizens to trade in 'old lithium e-bikes' for newer lead acid electric bikes
In what might seem like a headscratcher, China is now urging its citizens to trade in their lithium-ion battery-based electric...
The safety thing is 100% true but only part of the picture.
E-bikes don’t need maximum energy density because they’re not gonna be used for long trips and are significantly lighter than cars and trucks.
China has many, many more electric vehicles than any other country and a ton of electricity production to run them. At some point it’s gonna become important to save the lithium batteries for the stuff that needs that high density power.
Maybe these better chemistries that will replace lithium are just around the corner. I certainly don’t count unhatched chickens.
Makes sense. Thanks, Gayhitler.
Wait, what? I drain my battery every day. I need more energy density, not less. I do use my bike for long trips, driving a car during rush hour sucks, parking fees are insanely high and parking spots are rare. I sold my car and do everything by electric bike. But after 2 hours of cycling at 32km/h I need to charge.
I meant the ~300 mile ranges common in electric cars. That’s a long trip. Plus if the car rolls to a stop by the side of the road you just gotta have it towed or charge it up in the field somehow, electric bikes have pedals.
It sucks to pedal a heavy ass ebike but you can do it in a pinch to get where you need to go.
E-bikes don’t need maximum energy density because they’re not gonna be used for long trips and are significantly lighter than cars and trucks.
Actually, ebikes need energy density the most. They tend to not have fast public charging. A lighter ebike has huge advantages, if only for maneuvering a couple of stairs or over a log, but also in suspension and handling + a huge difference in range/acceleration.
For an EV, you don't need "race car" performance, and heavy chemistries are ok. Bike performance just gets a huge boost from relatively minor cost to improve weight/range and performance.
Sodium Ion batteries would be a better weight compromise than going to shitty old lead batteries. The new sodium batteries have almost no downsides but aren't quite as energy dense as lithium types. So they might be great in a large vehicle that's already going to be heavy, not so much in a smaller car. Saving the lithium stuff for smaller things is best (phones, laptops, etc)
EV’s already weigh more than most of their ICE equivalents. I don’t think we want even heavier chemistries in them. You could reduce the battery capacity to keep the weight down but then it’s a double hit to range.
Heck a Model S weighs more than a fair number of F150’s on the road.
Model S: 4,323-4,960 lbs
F150: 4,021-5,540 lbs
I don't think you realize just how fast lead acid batteries deteriorate when using their smaller charge capacities. In cars and many electronics they are used because they can be shamelessly charged to 100%, and they are supposed to maintain 100% or close to it. They require constant monitoring to be stored properly in a way that lasts. Using them up below 50% will decrease their lifespan significantly. Lithium batteries are quite different, they shouldn't be charged to 100% but in turn they can use a greater amount of their charge while holding more of it without significant deterioration. They have significantly longer lifespans when used properly. Before we had gasoline cars we had electric cars that used lead acid batteries, there's a reason they stopped being used.
What China wants to do is eliminate the older lithium ebikes because they were built with barely any safety regulation. To do this, they need to offer a cheaper option to their citizens, and the only way they can essentially do this without the original problem persisting is using lead acid batteries, because even a cheap lead acid battery with a cheap charger isn't going to fail spectacularly like the lithium ones. LiFePO4 are far safer than lithium while still having higher energy densities, but you won't see those get promoted because they would be costlier.
Who would have thought a ml user named gay hitler would be wrong about everything.
They should offer upgrade to newer lithium ebikes, LFP and sodium ion is not ideal for ebikes, but way better than SLA. Standards for BMS and pack soldering, and possibly a metal casing (like Lectric XP bikes) for holding battery, and metal case for home charging. There are safety standard designations (UL) used in US markets that may or may not be cash grabs, but seems like a good approach.
I know right, they are cheaping out because why bother subsidizing new bikes when trading in an old bike? Just sell a cheap shittier e bike. If only the citizens were able to pay the government some cash to help make their community more safe and better than before. /s
newer
lead acid
Uh, wtf?
I thought they would have been pushing for sodium ion batteries instead. Lead acid batteries are a bad choice for anything that needs to be cycled frequently.
Last part of the article basically says sodium ion batteries are where they're going next.
They're a also bad choice for e-bikes because they're heavy as hell. I had an e-bike a while back that had two lead acid batteries, and they were about 15 lbs each. The added weight made it almost impossible to go uphill with the motor, so you'd have to pedal a much heavier bike up hills. Not a good experience at all.
Traded-in e-bikes will be sent for dismantling and recycling
Maybe they need the batteries for something else...
However, safety concerns regarding rare yet dangerous lithium-ion battery fires have put a pause on that proliferation.
Urging citizens to buy new and inferior instead of increasing safety standards?
I'm Swiss (europe) and it's common knowledge here that chinese imported transportation devices can be russian roulette to use.
The very next sentence specifically mentions that they did institute new safety standards
I'm Singaporean and we've had a ton of apartments burnt down because of these imported Chinese ebikes already.
Are AGM batteries really inferior? Sure, they're heavier, but they aren't vulnerable to autoignition and thermal runaway. They also contain less conflict minerals than other types of batteries.
AGM are absolutely awful compared to even the absolute worst lithium batteries, and won't last long at all if regularly cycled below even 50% SoC. LFP chemistries are a bit worse for energy density compared to NCA/NCM chemistries, but they don't contain any nickel or cobalt, and won't autoignite in the same way other chemistries will. Absolutely ridiculous they're suggesting lead batteries over better lithium options.
I mean there are quite many fires in China started by those e-bikes but I thought it was because of bad quality.
There are chemistries that are less volatile But they're less energy dense as well.
The biggest problem I see on most of the Chinese stuff is a lack of safety in the battery packs. They're just mass-producing cells and shoving them together, It wouldn't be very expensive to put a small battery management system on every cell. Watch each cell for voltage and temperature. Have them shut down when they're out of safety margins
LiFePO4 is still superior to traction lead-acid in pretty much every way: energy density, safety, time and cycle life, internal resistance... Yes, they need a BMS but those are very cheap and lots of batteries have them built-in. In fact, I was unable to find 4-cell packs without a BMS inside so I could put two of them in series and balance the 8S cells with each other using an active BMS of my choice, and ended up ordering individual cells and screwing them together.
From what i know the issue seems to be too lax safety margins in packaging, to increase density.
Ehh they need to do sodium batteries
Damn I'd have atleast waited until sodium ion was built out