well yeah most of its operating software was derived from opensource projects, but capitalists exploited those opensource project without giving the tinest bit back, so...
For a while there, the Darwin OS was open source.
"It's better to be a pirate than join the navy" - Steve Jobs
Darwin is open source. It uses some closed source device drivers but the core OS is APSL which is an open source license.
If you want to talk about Apple specifically, then consider this. When they began making popular tech like MacBooks and Ipods, they justified the prices by giving free warranties. They would replace or repair any device at no extra cost of the consumer. Well, they stopped doing that and then wanted you to pay an annual fee to get the same service. Then they did away with that and now it's pay per repair or replacement and the prices went up instead of down. My theory is that was their business target in the first place. Get their products wide spread, and then pull rug out from under the consumer. To me, Apple is the best example of capitalism
That’s simply not true. Apple still has the same one year limited warranty they had when iPods were released. Steve Jobs justified the higher premium because you were getting “the store in the box,” referring to the in-store troubleshooting and educational support at no extra cost.
Source: worked for Apple for over a decade
This isn’t really true.
Apple, at least here in the UK, give a 1 year warranty as is the law and anything repairs that need doing that are not the fault of the consumer (ie dropping and breaking the screen) are covered under this warranty. Furthermore, if there is a problem with a line of products then they will extend the warranties to cover that issue for a longer period of time.
You can pay to have AppleCare+ which will extend this warranty and add on accidental damage too.
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to shit on Apple without having to make up new ones.
Also, iPhones are a lot cheaper than they were a few years ago and they’re cheaper than their Samsung counterparts when comparing Pro vs Pro, etc.
Source: Worked for Apple for 3+ years and I’ve consumed many of their products, although I now only have an iPhone. For what it’s worth MacOS is infinitely better than windows.
Applecare is still around so you’re wrong already.
Look, Apple’s done some shitty stuff and as an iPhone and MacBook owner I won’t deny it. Every company right now is desperately trying to find ways to charge more for less because there aren’t really any corners left to cut for capitalism to pump stock numbers up but infinite growth is still making its usual demands.
Apple products are still way more robust than the competition and they’re way ahead on things like ARM and making OSs that aren’t complete trash(Windows is a worthless piece of shit and always has been, even at its best. I own and regularly use a self-built gaming PC, so I experience it all the time). I’ll buy their products because their shit actually works and can be relied on. Plus I was able to finance my laptop at 0% and honestly the price I paid for my 14” MacBook Pro was comparable to what I would have paid for the same tier back in 2010 when I got my first MacBook so honestly, with inflation and all, it was surprisingly affordable(it was still really expensive, I won’t lie).
Anyhow it kinda sounds like you don’y have much experience with these products or haven’t learned from your experiences with them and just want to ride that bandwagon. Look into the awful shit Samsung has been doing or how expensive some of the other Android options are and you’ll see that this goes way beyond your specific hate of “the evil fruit company”. Capitalism is just rotten everywhere.
All modern devices are made using one form of slave labor or another.
https://ethical.net/technology/the-slavery-supported-the-device-in-your-pocket/
I think that's what they must when they say "built by capitalism."
I mean, any other usage would be utterly ridiculous. So, that must be what they mean.
It literally is. The idea I’ve seen around is that these things couldn’t be built without someone getting the short end of the stick. They also believe that no one would innovate without a profit motive. These people genuinely believe that the only other option is flipping entirely over to that garbage attempt the soviets made at communism. They fundamentally cannot comprehend the idea of nuance and so “capitalism is the only idea that works”.
We know that CEO wages are insane and that the reason we can’t afford stuff is our stagnant pay. We know that people innovate for their own curiousity all the time. We know that capitalism actually hates innovation because it means retooling and spending money on R&D and we’ve seen it fight progress basically at every turn or watched it buy up competition so it wouldn’t have to any real work.
So yea, you’re right.
Also, many of the technologies that comprise the iphone were developed in universities
For profit universities. In the states at least. Where students go into lifetime debt and their work is profited from. Occasionally they get a prize and pat on the head.
Then they spend their lives working for companies that make massive profits off their ideas. If they're very very lucky, some people might learn their names and what they did before they die, but that almost never happens.
Well, it’s always “humans made this”.
I think it’s trivial to argue that without capitalism we would not have iPhones, they are the product of the desire to please a market to make a lot of money.
If the driver was "I want to build something useful for my fellow humans" that wouldn’t likely trend toward an elitist redundant unsustainable device built on the exploitation of cheap labor.
If not for capitalism, we’d be missing out on internet ads, online dating and for-profit healthcare!
The conversation was clearly more developed here so I resubmitted it :|
Coming back to your point, I'm not being obtuse, a smartphone is not as life changing (for the better) when it comes down to your daily life.
I was born without one, I can relate to the experiences my parents had, and none of it screams "back in the days life was radically different".
Sure you'd go to places to purchase object you can touch and your brain wasn't melted by being exposed from an early age to Tiktok.
You're basically arguing that this process had nothing to do with capitalism. Like Apple isn't capitalist, it's just workers working. Like what is the logic here. Those workers didn't do it to create the iPhone... they did it because the capitalist who wanted to create the iPhone was paying them. So that his privately owned firm could compete against other similar firms in the market.
Okay, sure, I'll play devil's advocate. The engineering that goes into a single iPhone is unfathomable. It would take an entire lifetime of study to even try to produce something close.
But Apple pays about a jillion engineers about a jillion dollars each, and so they're able to create new iPhones every year or so. That was 100% powered by capitalism.
Yeah, workers physically put the pieces together. Do you think any of them could design an iPhone without any help or reference? Or a single body to tie it all together?
Do you think people cannot collaborate without capitalism?
People do all the time in academia and science.
Absolutely not! I'd ask why they should, and obviously there are many reasons.
Engineers are workers. Well paid yes, but you're going against the wrong people, they're not capitalists and don't make the decisions that matter.
Then, why do you think an a economy post capitalist wouldn't be able to develop smart phones? Do you think we'd return to feudalism and the world would devolve into dark ages and all the scientific knowledge would disappear?
Is the "help or reference" coming from other workers?
Yeah, in a capitalist system the difference between a smart person with a good idea and a successful person is capital.
With enough capital you don't need to be smart or have any good ideas. You don't even need to be a person.
Yea we can still innovate without capitalism, though, and even in spite of it people still develope things just for the fun of it. They even create non-profits designed around making things accessible and writing standards to help keep everyone organized. Fuck, Linux distros are free, dude. Literally this post points out that the people working on the software and the design are also of the working class and you’ve glossed over that.
Capitalism is the system which puts capital first. It a system whereby having money is having power and not having money is a death sentence. It is a system that that says equates your current monetary value with your value to society and which suppresses anything that cannot be monetized. So many people can’t even have hobbies anymore without some feeling of guilt and weird conservatives won’t stop shitting on the arts like they’re so broken as people they no longer understand the concept of enjoyment or living for more than just producing stock value.
Under a system that focuses on making sure people are cared for you can still have private business. A system which has safety nets and offers free education, healthcare, and basic utilities is one in which the ordinary person is free to live their life instead of worrying about losing their job and their employment-connected health insurance.
You’re not playing devil’s advocate by ignoring important details, you’re just being weird and wrong. Also no one fucking asked, anyway.
I don't disagree with any single point that you've made. I agree with most of them.
But you mentioned linux. Tell me again, Linus Torvald, was he employed under a capitalist country when he created linux? How about most of its contributors?
Your point is easily defeated. Please make a better argument.
Dude is the living "and yet you participate in society. I am very happy intelligent. " meme, you're wasting your time.
Socialism was made under capitalism.
Using the same logic, that would make socialism powered by capitalism. Well, that, climate breakdown and school shootings: all powered by capitalism.
Edit: clearly were only allowed to use that "logic" on things that people believe will make capitalism look good.
What. A. Surprise....
Yes and workers in the Soviet Union also made telephones. But only for the party leaders who didn't see there was a need for ordinary people to have phones.
Yes, workers make phones in any system. But who decides how many to make and what price to charge for them?
Capitalism does justify the need and expense of the device. Which is something, I guess.
What does that even mean?
It's a solution looking for a problem it causes.
