You're viewing a single thread.
You're right: we should be socialists and have governments like the PRC, North Korea, the ex-USSR, Cuba, Hoxhua's Albania, or the Stalinists in Spain during their civil war. Say what you will about the Khmer Rouge and Sendero Luminoso, but they weren't centrists or moderates.
PRC, North Korea, the ex-USSR, Cuba, Hoxhua’s Albania, or the Stalinists in Spain during their civil war
What?
Why are you using rightwing dictatorships that lie about what they are. Instead of the actual socialist countries in Europe?
What actual socialist countries in Europe?
I think part of the problem here, is you don't understand socialism is an economic system.
And before you say "someone has to enforce it", yeah, that's how society works man. People have to enforce capitalism too, if you need examples of that, well....
That’s an article from 1950, perhaps not so relevant anymore today.
Not to say socialism isn’t a strong influence in many European countries, though I wouldn’t go so far as to call a European country as being primarily economically and politically “socialist”. Democratic socialism / Social democratic maybe, but that is much more of a centrist set of policies than the outright goal of a workers-owning-the-means-of-production economy. Just my 2c.
perhaps not so relevant anymore today.
Take your pick:
https://www.lifeinnorway.net/scandinavian-socialism/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_socialism#Europe
https://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/display/document/obo-9780199756223/obo-9780199756223-0022.xml
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/top-15-democratic-socialist-countries-181857008.html
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/democratic-socialist-countries
than the outright goal of a workers-owning-the-means-of-production economy. Just my 2c.
https://www.history.com/news/socialism-communism-differences
The simple fact is that Scandinavian countries are not, by any reasonable definition, socialist.
That’s your first link.
Scandinavia and the Nordic countries can be best described as social democracies. Effectively, they’re democratic countries in which its citizens are well cared for.
Some refer to this as democratic socialism, though this is far from correct. Some economists refer to it as cuddly capitalism, contrasting with what is seen as cut-throat capitalism in other Western countries.
And in Germany, Germany is called Deutschland...
What they have in the Nordic countries is described as socialism virtually everywhere else.
In America advocating for a 1/10 of what they have gets jumped straight to communist.
It shouldn't be a surprise that context is important.
Yet here we are
Socialism has a clear definition. Scandinavian countries are not even close to be in this definition. It doesn’t matter what uneducated Americans believe.
I like the name Cuddly Capitalism. It describes our economic model pretty well.
So you want the US government to own 67% of all US oil companies and have all the profit go into a state fund.
Because it isn't socialism, you'd vote for the US government to take over the private oil companies, right?
I’m Swedish, so I can’t vote in US.
Just because some companies are state owned, doesn’t mean it’s socialism.
FWIW,
and,
https://chomsky.info/1986____/
The Soviet Union Versus Socialism
Noam Chomsky
Our Generation, Spring/Summer, 1986
In what European country is there a political system where:
1a. let's say >75% of the means of production is controlled by the state, syndicalists (i.e. the factory has no owner, it is run by the workers), or independent people (and I don't mean independent contractors that for-profit companies use)
2b. such as system isn't repressive
Bruh.
You're talking about communism...
Do you think theyre the same thing or just not know the difference?
I don't know for sure, but it seems that communists, most who seem to identify as Marxist-Leninists, or pretty much like them, describe themselves as socialists.
What is your definition of socialism?
You saying every country to the left of us, and there's a ton, are basically totalitarian regimes? And please, tell me which countries are more right wing than us that you'd be happy to live in?
probably none,
but IIUC leftism isn't necessarily socialism.