vote, please
vote, please
timemachineyeah
drives me up a wall living in a very very red district, like "no democrat is ever going to win any local election, let alone a real leftist" district, like "our school board members ran on who was the most anti-mask" red, like "I pass white supremacist signs on the way to buy weed" red
and being in the local leftist community and the guy who runs the anarchist book club and the lady who helps keep the warming shelters open and the people who marched on city hall when a local business was getting death threats for having a drag show are all members of a discord and we get on this discord and have frank discussions about how best to vote
the people who do the protests and the mutual aid and all the real work
going "okay, they're both fascists, but this one lacks ambition and seems happy to just glide in the position" or "they both suck, but this one can be reasoned with if you frame it patriotically enough" like we don't even have a democrat to vote for. we know what a vote is. we know what we hope accomplish with it. we know what it can do, and we know what it can't.
and going from those discussions to here where people think that your vote is some kind of fucking??? enabling maneuver??? as if someone isn't going to end up in that seat regardless of what you do???
we didn't build this system, we just live in it. we're just trying to survive. a vote isn't a statement of your values, it's not an endorsement, it's not a marriage contract, it's a strategic play you make to keep alive.
the biggest mistake I see leftists making is overestimating their own popularity. "well but everyone would be leftist if they just-" no, stop, 1) you can't possibly know that 2) everyone will not just
You're viewing a single thread.
This is why voting isn’t an option. What’s needed is violence and force, these people can’t be reasoned with or expected to take the rational option.
This kind of take isn't "necessarily wrong", i.e. we have never seen fascism beaten by peaceful means and all, but talking about it openly on someone's platform is a bad move for several reasons. Put up and shut up, is my advice. Get with your local antifa group, or start one with guidance from one you trust. Keep your mouth shut, protect yourself and others for real.
but we need to get more people on board, which means advocating for violence in public places. a tiny fraction of people in a super secret space is a recipe for getting charged as conspirators and co-conspirators. we need people across the entire fucking planet rattling their chains in unison. we need a movement that's too big to be jailed.
We're staring down the barrel of over a century of sly upward wealth transfer and increasing state power at the cusp of a fully automated boring dystopia and a general collapse of biodiversity. If the whole world was going to mobilise as an insurgency like you're describing, it would have happened by now.
It's not "too late", but it's not early. Shit has to start happening.
yeah, i honestly don't have much faith in people. i'm 50 and i've been pretty radical left since i was in my early 20's. each new generation comes in thinking they're on the cusp of some great enlightenment that will change the world. they get complacent with that mindset until propaganda slowly erodes their morals and they accept the ever-approaching dystopia.
if you all had the perspective i have, you'd be planting bombs at every trump rally.
there is no dark cabal of illuminati engineering our dystopia. it's just shitty, greedy, unenlightened masses that love their shitty, greedy, unenlightened overlords, and until we cull those people nothing will ever change. they're not dying out. they're making new ones every day. we could have been living in a utopia by now. every problem in our society has a solution. we're just stuck in a left-right tug of war where no significant change happens except for more government/corporate overreach and degradation of the environment.
Same page on all that. History being what it is, I've yet to meet an upbeat historian. It's unintended consequences all the way down.
and no one seems to think it could ever happen to them until it's too late. we are not special. we could become a page in history at any given moment.
Talking about it is the first step of getting people involved in it.
This isn’t fight club.
The diffrence is commenting violence rhetoric isn't organising. I want to hear people saying "this is where you can reach me, this is what I'm about, let's talk about what to do"
I’m not going to dox myself online.
Once people are openly talking about resistance, they can start looking into getting involved in the movement, and finding local groups to connect with.
Step 1 get radical.
Step 2 organise.
Step 3 ???.
Step 4 profit.I did say protect yourself. Why are you acting like I'm telling you to make a mistake? I'm telling you to do what you think you got to do, but do it without getting caught or fucking over a small time platform. Violent rhetoric is a liability. You're already radical, so organise. Stand on business.
^this dude gets it
are we allergic to doing both or something
the post clearly outlines voting as the last minute harm reduction option after all other avenues have been exhausted. do (violent perhaps) praxis and organizing, yea, but why tf would you throw away your option to vote when things haven’t changed yet and you have the opportunity to do 0.01% good for your neighbor?
You first.
You’ve convinced me, let’s go talk with the Nazis who are out to literally kill people for the simple act of existence.
If we just tolerate intolerance a little bit more surely that will fix the decades of decline!
The sooner you people realise this is a war for survival the sooner something can be done to protect the victims.
What are you doing to fight fascism?
They're encouraging people not to vote, apparently. Real pro democracy move, that.
if deceptichum said not to vote, that's their mistake. please let me correct them by saying VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO, as you stockpile ammo and expand your local alliance. we have to use every tool in the box to fix this mess before it turns into the forever dystopia. i still believe in democracy, i'm just not sure it alone can save us.
That's not what they're saying at all.
They're saying voting won't accomplish any substantial changes because you can't vote power out of the hands of those who wield it. Change requires more than simply voting.
I think voting can absolutely take power out of the hands of those who wield it, just like courts can rule against those in power…. but these things tend to only happen when the ruling class is terrified of what will happen if they don’t appease the masses through giving concessions within the traditional power structures of society.
In other words we need people to vote to codify the concessions given by the ruling class, but unless the ruling class thinks giving concessions through voting and making courts adhere to some form of reality is a less scary option than continuing to fuck around and find out what happens when you push the masses to a breaking point… than voting is next to useless.
We need people who consider voting pointless and people who consider voting to be necessary damage control, both ideologies are mandatory in an effective progressive movement.
FUCKING EXACTLY
Calm down Dollar store Robespierre
my opponents doing political violence
Cringe and bad.
Me doing political violence
Based ang good.
Absolutely not unhinged god complex thinking, I'm sure you're not equally as authoritarian as the people you despise.
Nazis killing people, bad.
Stopping Nazis killing people, bad.
We get it you tolerate intolerance.
I tolerate intolerance, I don't tolerate violence, it's very simple.
The same tolerance I afford you, openly advocating violence in an open forum, i afford nazis.
You should be happy that this tolerance is in place, since you benefit from it.
The paradox of intolerance you are so daftly hinting at explicitly draws the line at circumventing debate and resorting to violence and intimidation.
That is the intolerance that shall not be tolerated, but since you never actually read the text and are ""educated"" through memes you wouldn't know that, because of that idiotic fucking comic you knuckledraggers love reposting to bolster your off-brand "can't be a fascist if I'm antifa" bullshit.
Yes I know you tolerate intolerance, that is entirely the issue.
You will sit back and do nothing to fight against those who wish to end tolerance. You’re the equivalent of a pacifist staring at the gates of Auschwitz, you disgust me.
I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.
Nowhere does the paradox of intolerance call out not using force if necessary to preserve tolerance.
I tolerate intolerance, I don’t tolerate violence, it’s very simple.
Imagine being privileged enough to not only not be personally impacted by the violence inflicted by the ruling class, but to not see it at all even when those impacted are screaming at the top of their lungs..
you think debate is still an option???? lol. they love suckers like you.
So you concede that our opponents are being violent, but only take issue with said violence when it's those they oppress who use it in self defence.. Curious.. 🤔
you really don't get it. the sociopaths have conditioned you with goose and gander rhetoric. they use these types of arguments as their sheep's skin to blend into society.
Go away. You'll talk big on the Internet and do nothing.
And if you do something to someone you are a lunatic.
what's truly insane is to stand by like a coward pacifist while they put the noose around your neck. some of you people are complacent to the point of being sitting ducks.
So I guess you'll attack me because I'm mostly moderate? You going to shoot me because I disagree with you?
no, and that's a stupid conclusion to draw from my statement.